DVDLab Pro problem, menu background colors change when rendered.

[PSPGamer]

Hi, I use DVDLab Pro 2.33, and the menu colors don't stay the same.

No matter what option I change, the menu background always changes the colors. I'll show you the picture comparisons.

It starts out like this:
http://img26.imageshack.us/img26/3599/epselectp2.png

And ends up like this:

http://img819.imageshack.us/img819/7526/epselectp2dvdlabpro.png

Notice the whites aren't bright and crisp as the original?

I tried playing with all the options(NTSC safe color, Enhanced menu rendering) and it never comes out same as the original. Maybe there is a way to fix it though? The only thing that did work, is motion menu. Because with motion menus, it doesn't change the colors. But, the motion menu I got from the picture. Is one frame of picture. So it just loops over and over and won't hold still or stay paused. I tried to figure out an option for that, but it doesn't stay paused for the motion menu.

And I also used TMPGenc to merge 1 frame to 1 frame (from the original m2v with stored menu from original dvd), over and over. Then I merged that outputted file, So I got a 20 second file. But it's huge. And it's bitrate over load. So it's not going to work on my DVD player. And it lags on any VLC Player and stuff. So I don't know how to fix this problem.

Unless there is an option on DVDLab pro that will keep a motion video paused. Or maybe a better program to make a 20 second .m2v on the image without bitrate over load. I just don't know. I don't know why this is complicated. But if anyone has a fix for this let me know. Thank you.

[guns1inger]

2.33 is an old version (although they are all getting old now, unfortunately). You might try updating the latest patch.

The issue doesn't appear to be the colour changing so much as the image be blurred through anti-aliasing, which softens and blends the edges. The actual central white still remain pretty close the original, but there is less of it because of the blurring. I don't know why this is happening, and I don't have DLP on this machine to play around with unfortunately.

How were the two images created ?

[jagabo]

The colors are probably blurring because you're going from RGB 4:4:4 to YUV 4:2:0. In YUV 4:2:0 (required for DVD) the colors are stored at half resolution (ie, 360x240 instead of 720x480) so they get a little blurred. Otherwise the colors and levels are the same.

[PSPGamer]

Yeah, I was thinking about updating it. And I might. But when I looked at the version changes, I didn't see anything to indicate that it would make the menu backgrounds rendered differently. But I will probably still update just in case.

I created the image originally from DVD X Player, captured the image as bmp from the Original DVD ISO. Then the second image I captured(DVD X Player) that after I rendered the project with DVDLabpro.

I also play the created DVD with DVDlabpro, with VLC player and compare it with the original image. And the colors and everything else still look better with the original image.


I just don't want it to change anything about the image period. I want it unchanged.

The colors are probably blurring because you're going from RGB 4:4:4 to YUV 4:2:0. In YUV 4:2:0 (required for DVD) the colors are stored at half resolution (ie, 360x240 instead of 720x480) so they get a little blurred. Otherwise the colors and levels are the same.

So I have to capture the original image (YUV 4:2:0) so it won't change the colors? I mean. How do I fix this then? I don't want the image blurred either.

[jagabo]

You cannot fix this. YUV 4:2:0 chroma subsampling is required for DVD. If you can't live with slightly blurred colors you have to use bigger text, grayscale text on a grayscale background, or colored text on a similar colored (different intensity) background.

By the way, two players playing the same video at the same time may look different unless you've adjusted your graphics card's video proc amp to match the Desktop (only one player at a time can use the graphics card's video overlay feature, the other is displaying on the Desktop). Different players may use different methods of converting YUV 4:2:0 to RGB for display so different players can look different too.

[PSPGamer]

You cannot fix this. YUV 4:2:0 chroma subsampling is required for DVD. If you can't live with slightly blurred colors you have to use bigger text, grayscale text on a grayscale background, or colored text on a similar colored (different intensity) background.

By the way, two players playing the same video at the same time may look different unless you've adjusted your graphics card's video proc amp to match the Desktop (only one player at a time can use the graphics card's video overlay feature, the other is displaying on the Desktop). Different players may use different methods of converting YUV 4:2:0 to RGB for display so different players can look different too.

That is impossible then. How come the original DVD has no blurr? Colors are suppose to be blurred on DVD menus then? When I play the original ISO, the menu doesn't look blurred.

Okay, if it's impossible that method.

Then what about the motion video method? That actually worked and it didn't change or blur the menus.

Problem was , is that motion menus on DVDLab pro 2, they don't pause. They play video. And it's a one frame video. So it restarts over and over. And I can't choose the episode option with only like 0.033 seconds.

So I tried using TMPGenc DVD editing stuff. To merge a bunch of frames together, then eventually I merged a huge 30 second video of just a still frame. But it was bitrate overload for some reason. The file was like 100mb. And when I played it with VLC Player, it lags, and then DVDXPlayer. it lags. And I'm pretty sure if I ever tried it with an actual DVD player it would crash.

The file starts out as this "VideoFile.m2v" size = 219KB (224771 bytes) extracted from original ISO.
It's this according to media player classic.

Video: MPEG2 Video 720x480 (4:3) 29.97fps 4587Kbps [Video]

I just don't know how to make a .m2v with one image video still without bitrate over load.

[jagabo]

Oh, I just noticed another problem. The vdlabpro image appears to have been deinterlaced or run through a deflicker filter. That has caused blurring of the luma channel too. See if you can disable that.

Maybe you're encoding interlaced and whatever you are using to extract sample frames is deinterlacing?

[PSPGamer]

Yeah, I looked for that. And actually found this option.

"Auto-Deinterlace
By default, DVD-lab always deinterlaces a graphic which is dropped from the Preview Window to a Menu or added as Chapter Point image.


It is recommended to leave this set unless you notice it creates an unwanted side-effect on some video still images."


Unfortunately, it still didn't work. And I never did drop the image from a preview window.

Actually, now that I noticed, the program that I used to capture the menu image with DVD X Player, screwed up the image.

If you look at the number 18 and the edges are screwed up. I captured the image from VLC with PNG, and the number 18 edges still look screwed up.

Maybe that is why it renders out wrong with DVD Lab pro, but DVD Lab pro fixes the interlace thing with the number 18. But still makes it blur. Who knows why it does what it does.

Interesting when I actually open up the image through the .m2v file with virtualdubmod, the number 18 still looks screwed up. Maybe , it's like that originally. And VLC Player fixes it when it plays it, but doesn't fix it when it captures it. I don't know, it's confusing.

I don't care about that little problem, but only the slight blurring is annoying.

[jagabo]

FWIW, here's your epselectp2.png as a 20 second MPEG 2 elementary stream, 23.976 fps with pulldown flags. Encoded with HcEnc.

[PSPGamer]

The encoder blurred it again. How do I use this program? I loaded .m2v with the menu image using an avs script. But I don't know how to set it to encode the length of 20 seconds.


When I encoded it, the colors came out right. But it's still only 11 frames.

[jagabo]

I used AviSynth to create the 20 second video:

ImageSource("epselectp2.png", start=0, end=480, fps=23.976)
ConvertToYV12()

Then opened that AVS script with HcGUI.

[PSPGamer]

ConvertToYV12()

YV12 is must be what is screwing up the colors then. I'm going to go back to my other theory, the method I did that causes bitrate overload. I'm just going to see if the menu actually works on a standalone dvd player. I'm already exhausted trying to solve this problem though. Thanks for your help so far anyways.

[poisondeathray]

No that doesn't make sense; the motion menu is YV12 as well - an you said it looked fine

I don't see the colors change much (i.e. white is still white).

The blurring in your screenshot is more than just conversion to YV12; how are you taking the screenshot? It looks like it's been lowpassed or deinterlaced

[PSPGamer]

No that doesn't make sense; the motion menu is YV12 as well - an you said it looked fine

I don't see the colors change much (i.e. white is still white).

The blurring in your screenshot is more than just conversion to YV12; how are you taking the screenshot? It looks like it's been lowpassed or deinterlaced

Nah, the only time it worked was never when I took a picture of the menu. It was only when I extracted that actual menu in .m2v format from the original disc using PGCDemux. And then I took that and used TMPGenc editing tools and kept on merging the file over and over. Until I get a huge 100 MB that was like 16 seconds. And then I added it as a motion menu with DVDLab Pro 2. And when that comes out, the colors are beautiful. (But the problem is I think the file has an excess bitrate problem, and I'm not sure if it would actually work in a stand alone DVD Player, it freezes in VLC Player)

Here is the original attached. And there is a difference. It's not even really a motion menu. It's suppose to be a still. But I don't know how exactly these DVDs are structured. Maybe you can tell me if the original is YV12.

[poisondeathray]

yes, the original is YV12 . All DVD-video is MPEG2 and YV12

The problem occurs when you do conversions YV12=>RGB =>YV12 , this is lossy and the color gets progressively worse (less sharp)

When you take a screenshot for a still picture it's a YV12=>RGB conversion. You convert back to YV12 for DVD. Don't do that. Unless you are doing something in photoshop or image editor, it's avoidable quality loss

MPEG2Source("VideoFile.d2v")
Loop(600)

This way you stay in YV12, without other conversions

This is a 29.97 progressive source like the original, so 600 frames is 20 seconds.

[PSPGamer]

Okay, woah. You did it. Could you please tell me exactly how you created that file? So I can do the same thing with my other DVD menus. Did you use HcGUI?

Now also, I could even make it easier than that. Is there a way for a program to take a screenshot so it captures it like this YV12=>YV12 instead of YV12=>RGB?

[poisondeathray]

I used DGIndex on your original file , it produced a .d2v file

Then I used that script to feed into HCGUI

Is there a way for a program to take a screenshot so it captures it like this YV12=>YV12 instead of YV12=>RGB?

No. Screenshots and image formats are almost always in RGB (png, jpg, tiff etc...) . Your monitor and TV displays in RGB. But video for distribution is usually in YV12 (like blu-ray, DVD, flash). So you will incur the YV12=>RGB=>YV12 quality loss.

Basically you want to avoid lossy conversions. Do your editing in YV12 if you can (since the source is in YV12), but you never mentioned what you're trying to manipulate - you might have to convert to RGB for some programs

[PSPGamer]

I used DGIndex on your original file , it produced a .d2v file

Then I used that script to feed into HCGUI

Can you explain that in more detail. What exactly did you click. I'm sorry I'm kind of a newb with these tools. I did open the file with DGIndex, but I don't see where the options are that made the script so you can encode it by looping it 600 frames. I see Options > Loop Playback, but I'm not sure what that is for. I just want to be able to know what to do, so I can do this will all the rest of my motion menus.

Update: I figured it out. I made avs script with:
LoadPlugin("D:\DGIndex\DGDecode.dll")
MPEG2Source("VideoFile.d2v")
Loop(600)

This looks like it solved my problem. Although, I may want to loop it longer to make it look like an illusion that it is not a motion menu. Thanks. Now I can have better looking menus in the future.

[jagabo]

You might find this easier, or if you only have an image to start with (start with step 3):

1) Open VideoFile.m2v with VirtualDubMod.
2) Export the frame as a PNG file: Video -> Snapshot Source Frame, call it menu.png
3) Create the following AviSynth script in the same folder as the PNG file:

ImageSource("menu.png", start=0, end=480, fps=23.976)
ConvertToYV12()

Open that AVS script with HcGUI. Encode as 23.976 fps progressive with 3:2 pulldown flags.

Colors will be a little less sharp because of the YV12 to RGB to YV12 conversion. And less sharp colors means less saturated colors with small colored features. If you create a 29.97 fps interlaced M2V instead the colors will be even more blurred.

[PSPGamer]

ImageSource("menu.png", start=0, end=480, fps=23.976)
ConvertToYV12()

Open that AVS script with HcGUI. Encode as 23.976 fps progressive with 3:2 pulldown flags.

Colors will be a little less sharp because of the YV12 to RGB to YV12 conversion. And less sharp colors means less saturated colors with small colored features. If you create a 29.97 fps interlaced M2V instead the colors will be even more blurred.

Nah, that's alright I prefer to keep it original as best as I can. Now check this out. There is barely any difference as I can tell.


First a screenshot of the original:
http://img847.imageshack.us/img847/755/epselectoriginal.png

Next a screenshot of the menu output from dvdlab:
http://img688.imageshack.us/img688/4338/epselectdvdlab.png