completely new to avisynth...please help

[manono]

One more question, what's the best route to take if I wish to convert my MPEG files into AVIs?

Well, the easiest route is AutoGK, which also uses AviSynth scripts. Until you get the hang of doing it yourself I'd suggest doing it that way. Open either the IFO for the video or the first VOB and the rest will get added automatically. The 'best' is to do it all manually.

Based on what I'm gathering here, doing it with Virtualdub will result in audio problems and VirtualdubMod will result in sync problems.

I don't see where anyone has suggested anything of the sort. I also keep my audio separate and mux it in while the encoding is going on. Another advantage of doing it the DGIndex/DGDecode/MPEG2Source way is that DGIndex will demux the audio while creating a D2V project file, and let you know if any delay exists in the audio.

[unclescoob]

So if I just run the MPEG through virtualdub and release it as an AVI....am I losing out on something in particular? I've done it and it looks and sounds fine to me and I'm a stickler for quality.

[manono]

You have degrading colorspace conversions coming into play if you're not careful. Also, is the AVI 23.976fps or 29.97fps? Unless the source is pure interlace, deinterlacing it is probably the worst possible thing you can do to it.

I'm a stickler for quality.

Not with your workflow, you're not. Once again, a sample from the source might prove useful.

[jagabo]

So if I just run the MPEG through virtualdub and release it as an AVI....am I losing out on something in particular?

If the video is interlaced, or film with pulldown flags (most movies in the USA), you will.

https://forum.videohelp.com/threads/322333-Lines-on-my-rendered-videos?p=1996768&viewfu...=1#post1996768
https://forum.videohelp.com/threads/316403-Virtualdub-NTSC-deinterlacing-filter-help?p=...=1#post1958223
https://forum.videohelp.com/threads/307116-8mm-film-and-the-msu-old-color-restoration-f...=1#post1890833
https://forum.videohelp.com/threads/300741-Line-thickness-and-color-oversaturation?p=18...=1#post1839759

[unclescoob]

manono, the avi is 29.97 fps. The source is a cartoon DVD (which is most likely purely interlaced, since it's a 25 year old cartoon).

Ok, just to recap, here's what I plan to do so far (aside from trying to figure out avisynth):

1. Loading the MPEG file into Virtualdubmpeg-2

2. De-interlace it (side by side) - so that when I apply the cleaning filters, it works accurately with each frame.

3. Save the de-interlaced AVI file.

4. Re-open it with Virtualdub and applying the following filters:

a) Neatvideo b) temporal smoother 3) sharp 4) interlace (side by side, to weave the video back together again).

5. Save the AVI and burn the result on a DVD with Nero (2-pass encoding at the highest bitrate to avoid blocky artifacts).

Am I somewhat on track here? Please excuse me as I'm very new to video stuff and am not familiar with all the techincal jargon.

[unclescoob]

My other plan was after step 5, to re-encode the AVI to MPEG-2 with Avidemux (since it utilizes libavcodec) in order to obtain high-quality MPEG-2 for burning on DVD.

[jagabo]

manono, the avi is 29.97 fps. The source is a cartoon DVD (which is most likely purely interlaced, since it's a 25 year old cartoon).

No, it's more likely hard telecined film.

Ok, just to recap, here's what I plan to do so far (aside from trying to figure out avisynth):

1. Loading the MPEG file into Virtualdubmpeg-2

2. De-interlace it (side by side) - so that when I apply the cleaning filters, it works accurately with each frame.

3. Save the de-interlaced AVI file.

4. Re-open it with Virtualdub and applying the following filters:

a) Neatvideo b) temporal smoother 3) sharp 4) interlace (side by side, to weave the video back together again).

5. Save the AVI and burn the result on a DVD with Nero (2-pass encoding at the highest bitrate to avoid blocky artifacts).

Am I somewhat on track here? Please excuse me as I'm very new to video stuff and am not familiar with all the techincal jargon.

If it's hard telecined film you should start with an inverse telecine to restore 23.976 progressive frames per second.

But to be sure, you should post a sample of the source.

[unclescoob]

Ok, I'll do that tonight jagabo. If I need to inverse telecine, would Virtualdub then work or should I still use Autogk? Keep in mind that I would be trying to apply inverse telecine to an MPEG-2 clip, NOT an AVS so if Autogk is MPEG-2 friendly, I'll take the advice without any qualms. I was also considering applying inverse telecine with Avidemux, if it makes a difference. What do you think?

But otherwise, does my plan (listed numerically above) make sense? Am I on the right track?

Also, what do you think of my idea of encoding the finished product to MPEG-2 with Avidemux? Will I get good quality using Avidemux for this (since it uses libavcodec)?

This is to eliminate the postprocessing blocky artifacts that usually appear after eliminating noise.

PS - I was able to open Avisynth scripts using the codec you guys gave me. However, I'm having difficulty now actually applying commands (but from this point on, I think the tutorial will guide me through). Right now I'm sticking with Virtualdub.

[jagabo]

VirtualDub's not the greatest at automated IVTC. AviSynth is pretty good with TFM().TDecimate(). I don't know how good AviDemux's IVTC is. VirtualDub or AviSynth with a "manual" IVTC works best but it's too tedious if there are many telecine pattern breaks.

Step 2 is unnecessary if you IVTC first.

Steps 3 and 4 are unnecessary.

Step 4c (sharpening) would be better done in AviSynth where you can sharpen horizontally and vertically by different amounts. You rarely have to sharpen vertically and doing so will often cause oversharpening halos.

I'm not sure what you're doing in Step 5. Are you saving as AVI then using Nero to convert the AVI to MPEG 2, author, and burn a movie DVD? Or are you saving as AVI (Xvid?) and burning that as a data DVD? I don't know how good Nero's MPEG 2 encoder is. I use HcEnc. I don't know if you can frame serve to Nero, thereby avoiding saving the VirtualDub result as an intermediate file.

[unclescoob]

Ok so I downloaded HcEnc. I uploaded the AVS file in it successfully (according to the program). I set my settings but the "encode" button won't make itself available. What gives?

[jagabo]

Did you convert to YV12 at the end of the script? HcEnc requires YV12 as input.

WhateverSource()
YadaYadaYada()
ConvertToYV12()

[manono]

manono, the avi is 29.97 fps. The source is a cartoon DVD (which is most likely purely interlaced, since it's a 25 year old cartoon).

No, as jagabo says, you couldn't be more wrong (but, for the third time, please provide a sample). Why, when the best ways of doing these things have already been suggested, do you insist on choosing the worst possible methods? You could make a quick 1-pass target quality encode at the default 75% using AutoGK and have wound up with a much better result than what you've done on your own.

And as for first making an Xvid AVI then to be used as the source for a DVD, when you have the real source DVD at your disposal, well, that just makes no sense at all.

If I need to inverse telecine, would Virtualdub then work or should I still use Autogk?

VDub's IVTC sucks. AutoGK can (and will) do it easily, or you can do it yourself in your script.

Keep in mind that I would be trying to apply inverse telecine to an MPEG-2 clip, NOT an AVS so if Autogk is MPEG-2 friendly, I'll take the advice without any qualms.

AutoGK was designed so that people that know nothing about video encoding (people like you) can take DVD sources and turn them into XviD or DivX AVIs.

[unclescoob]

Manono, the only reason why I am trying to convert the MPEG-2 (dvd source) into an AvI is so that I can use the AVI file to edit it with Avisynth in the first place. Then I'd burn it on DVD.

[unclescoob]

Jagabo, I converted. The encoder still won't work. Any other ideas?

[manono]

Manono, the only reason why I am trying to convert the MPEG-2 (dvd source) into an AvI is so that I can use the AVI file to edit it with Avisynth in the first place. Then I'd burn it on DVD.

You do all the filtering on the source MPEG-2 in your script. If the intended end result is another DVD, then there's no reason to make an AVI, especially an XviD/DivX AVI. If the filter chain is slow, as I mentioned earlier, you might want to make a lossless AVI (I use Lagarith), and then use that and AviSynth's AVISource to load it into the MPEG-2 encoder.

Jagabo, I converted. The encoder still won't work. Any other ideas?

Is there any sort of an error message at the bottom of the main HCEnc screen? Can you open the script in VDub(Mod)?

[unclescoob]

"You do all the filtering on the source MPEG-2 in your script."

Are you serious manono?? And here I was busting my head thinking that the only way I could CORRECTLY edit my video with Avisynth is by converting it to AVI first. Well yeah, when I used DirectShowSource initially I WAS able to open the MPEG file with Virtualdub(MOD).

As far as HCEnc is concerned, no there's no error message. In fact, it says "Avisynth successfully initialized."

Funny thing is that I am able to open the script with Virtualdub but not with VirtualdubMod.

Ok, forgetting HCEnc for a moment....

so I'm just going to install the codec pack and start opening it with MPEG2Source again and create scripts based on this.

Am I at LEAST on the right track so far??

[manono]

Am I at LEAST on the right track so far??

Maybe, but still no sample that I can see. Anyway, a simple script involves making the D2V with 'Honor Pulldown Flags' checked in DGIndex (it's the default). Then a script with IVTC might go:


LoadPlugin("C:\Path\To\DGDecode.dll")
LoadPlugin("C:\Path\To\TIVTC.dll")
MPEG2Source("C:\Path\To\Video.d2v")
TFM()
TDecimate(Mode=1)#Mode=1 is for animations only. Read the included TDecimate doc.

Adjust for your own names and paths. Others will say that having the needed DLLs in the AviSynth Plugins folder means you don't need to load them explicitely in the script. Me, I prefer to remove that possible source of problems by sticking them in the script. The D2V will be 29.97fps while after the IVTC the framerate becomes 23.976fps. Many third-party filters (such as the needed TIVTC.dll) can be found here:

http://avisynth.org/warpenterprises/

[unclescoob]

Manono,

You are very knowledgable of this stuff, as I see. And I can't deny that you've been helpful. But I think you're forgetting that the original title of this thread is "Completely NEW to Avisynth". Additionally, it's posted in the "NEWBIE" section.

I am a NEWBIE. I don't understand most of this jargon. I don't know what a "DLL" is....how to make a script with "IVTC" (what the heck is IVTC anyway?) or what "others say about needed DLLs". No doubt whatever you just posted may sound intelligent to the rest of the video world, but it's not getting me anywhere. Manono, you keep speaking to me as if I'm another expert and I'm not. I am, however willing to learn and no, I do not insist on doing this the wrong way. I am totally willing to do it the correct way as advised here, however I am simply exploring options. If your method of doing it is the best, then hey! More power not just to you but to me because the end results for my video will be my reward.

I'm not asking for all the answers, although it does seem that way. I'm just trying to obain a small boost in this and then I"ll just do the rest on my own. Questions will come up I'm sure and if I can't find the answers to them elsewhere, I'll post them here. But this project is very important to me and your assistance is really appreciated. Heck, I'll even donate money for your time and services (do you have paypal??) after my work is complete and flawless. I'll light a candle, whatever.

Having said that, is it any at all possible for you to explain this to me like you would a video moron (such as myself). Please? I'm not trying to be a jerk, but..as stated, I need for you to explain this to me, if possible, like you're explaining it to someone who has limited knoweledge but willing to learn and make this enjoyable. And tomorrow I'll post a clip still of my video. Promise. However, please read as follows:

Basically, this is what I want to do and would like a little assistance with:

1. Open the AVS script version of the MPEG-2 file using MPEG2Source ("path/filename").

2. Apply the necessary filters.

3. Save the finished product (oh and by the way, since I'm working with VirtualdubMod, do I have options other than .AVI in terms of saving my video? keeping in mind that the intention is to burn to DVD at the highest possible quality)

4. Encoding the saved .AVI (since I'm working with VirtualdubMod) back to MPEG-2with HCEnc at the highest quality possible to avoid blocky artifacts.

5. Burning it on a DVD using AVS to DVD

And here's one more question...that script that you just posted...is that how i should save my avs file as and then open it with the HCEnc??

[manono]

DLLs certainly aren't unique to AviSynth. Just look in your Windows System 32 folder sometime. Anyway, for AviSynth purposes they're the filters. The first two lines in that script above load two DLLs, one (DGDecode.dll) you get from the DGMPGDec package, the other (TIVTC.dll), from that link in my last post. Because neither is included in AviSynth, doing so makes the filters available to use within the script.

Telecining is the process of converting 24fps progressive film sources to interlaced 30fps (29.97fps actually) for DVD or TV broadcast. IVTC (InVerse TeleCine) undoes that process to restore that interlaced 29.97fps DVD of yours to progressive 23.976fps. For more information do a search on telecine, pulldown, 3:2 pulldown. Or, even though it's old now, read this:

http://www.doom9.org/ivtc-tut.htm

Where it says 'DVD2AVI', mentally replace it with 'DGIndex'. And you can skip the parts about PAL videos.

[manono]

1. I already gave you a sample script. Just modify it for your own use and try opening your video in VDub(Mod). Tell us any error messages you get if it doesn't work.
2. I showed you how to apply the IVTC. Other filters and functions can be applied in addition. Without a source to study, no one can suggest which filters should be applied.
3. If the final output is to be another DVD, forget about VDub and open the script in the MPEG-2 encoder of your choice. VDub(Mod) is useful in testing the scripts to make sure they're OK. It'll give out with an error message while the MPEG-2 encoders might not.
4. After opening the script in the MPEG-2 encoder, encode and take the resulting MPV/M2V (applying pulldown if necessary) and author it for DVD with the audio (chapters, subs, menus, if wanted), using whatever you use as an authoring program.
5. Burning, as in burning a DVD to disc for playback in a standalone DVD player, is best accomplished with ImgBurn. You should never use anything else.

[unclescoob]

Now we're getting somewhere!!!

Seems like I have quite a project for the weekend.

Manono, THIS is what I was talking about! it's (well, not crystal clear yet, of course) but let's just say I can at least see some coral reefs at the bottom of the ocean!

Thank you very very much sir. I'll keep you posted (yes, with a sample clip of the work as well).

Jagabo - you've been kinda quiet. Please feel free at any given time dude, I appreciate your help just as much, and thank you!

Have a fantastic weekend folks.

[unclescoob]

Oh, manono as far as applying filters...I've been using Neatvideo with Virtualdub which is excellent. Is there any way I can transfer this filter over to the MPEG-2 encoder?

[jagabo]

You can use NeatVideo in an AVS script. See chapter 10 in the user guide:
http://neatvideo.com/files/NVVDUG.pdf

[manono]

Me, I wouldn't let NeatVideo anywhere near one of my videos. AviSynth has equally good, if not better, and faster filters that can do the same things. Most people use NeatVideo with the default settings which is the fastest (or slowest) way I know to ruin a video.

[unclescoob]

Cool Jagabo, I'm definitely going to check that out tonight.

Guys, I notice that alot of noise-reduction filters, after eliminating the noise...leave blocky artifacts behind on the finished product. for example, after applying Neatvideo with a temporal smoother (using Virtualdub) the result looks magnificent on my computer monitor. However after I burn it on DVD and play it on a standalone DVD player, I see the blocky artifacts in dark, non-detailed scenes for example. Dont' mean to give a multiplication exam here, but is this the result of using:

a) a poor filter

b) a poor DVD authoring/burning program

c) conversion from AVI to DVD

or can it just be all three? I'm sure you'll need a clip of it as well (which I can provide tonight).

I've read different opinions on these artifacts, but from what I've gathered...all agree that they're the result of filtering out dirt and grain from video. Is there a solution to this problem or is this just one of those "tradeoffs" we have to live with if we want cleaner video?

[jagabo]

Too much noise filtering leads to posterization artifacts, both spacial and temporal. Keep in mind that a large part of compression is not encoding things that don't change much from frame to frame. That leads to even more posterization. And 8 bits each of red, green, and blue aren't sufficient for completely smooth gradients. Noise helps hide those faults.

[unclescoob]

So if I want to eliminate noise AND avoid artifacts...I'm basically hopeless?

[jagabo]

You have to find a compromise. Film is full of grain. People don't complain about it in theaters.

[unclescoob]

So I've seen with my own eyes that DirectShowSource really doesn't work for me if I want to work with my .VOB files, as you all stated. It makes my video look VERY blocky. I'm switching to MPEG-2 source, however I'm having trouble opening it with VirtualDubMod. When I write a Mpeg2Source() script to open my .vob file in VirtualDubMod, I get the following:

Script Error: There is no function named MPEG-2Source.

I created a d2v file of one of my videos (with audio demuxed) with DGINdex. However, when trying to open the d2v file I created with VirtualdubMod, I will see this message as well or something similiar.

1. What am I doing wrong? HCEnc is accepting the file with no problem, but I still need to edit/clean my video with Avisynth filters...which I intended to do through VirtualdubMod just to see how my work is going.

2. Manono, is it possible to open up the Avisynth script text screen with HCEncoder? I prefer to see how my work is going with VirtualdubMod since it's a full screen AND shows 'before/after'.

3. Any other MPEG Encoder you guys recommend that is similiar to VirtualdubMod that I can run Avisynth scripts with?

Thanks

[poisondeathray]

Ok so I created a d2v file of one of my videos (with audio demuxed) with DGINdex. However, when trying to open the d2v file I created with VirtualdubMod, I get the following:

Script Error: There is no function named MPEG-2Source.

What am I doing wrong? HCEnc is accepting the file with no problem, but I still need to edit my video with Avisynth filters...which I intended to do with VirtualdubMod just to see how my work is going.

there is no hypen

MPEG2Source("file.d2v")

also do you have "DGDecode.dll" placed in the avisynth/plugins folder ? It will autoload this way. I think HCenc has it's own .dll for DGDecode

is it possible to open up the Avisynth script text screen with HCEncoder? I prefer to see how my work is going with VirtualdubMod since it's a full screen AND shows 'before/after'.

Avsp or avspmod is a great tool to use here; you can push f5 for video preview and edit scripts. You can even use multiple tabs to compare different versions of scripts (maybe with different filters applied), and swap by pushing the number keys

However, you cannot preview the end result of the actual encode - you need to actually encode it to see that (ie. the effects of encoding at a certain bitrate, or encoding parameters)