Sr-w5u auction alert!!!

[lordsmurf]

People often ask my advice on VCR buying. Well, this is more of it:
I would advise anybody to NEVER BID MORE THAN $100 SHIPPED on an untested unit.

My official buying advice is here: VCR Buying Guide (S-VHS, D-VHS, Professional) for restoring video.
And anybody ever needing advice is best to find me there.
I may have to amend it with some budgetary sanity AND warnings against auctions like this.
Anybody willing to assist is encouraged to add their pricing suggestions, in that thread.

________________________

I based the price on the fact that this was just under 50% of what I paid and some online searches for refurb units. $500 is below any price I found and I sincerely felt that it was completely fair.

That's still not a valid reason, as far as I'm concerned. The refurb units likely came from a source that was able to test and guarantee function -- hence the "refurb" aspect. To throw up an auction, knowing nothing about the functionality, is fine. To put it up, expecting similar compensation for the tested machines? No, sorry, I just can't agree to it. If you want that sort of return, you should put in the same effort as the refurb seller. Most of us are far too smart to bid on anything like that. And that's a negative for you, the seller.

If it wasn't then no one would bid and I would have to decide what I wanted to do from there.

eBay is full of idiot buyers. So, no, not really.

If you bought this from another A/V profession that knew exactly what it was though and had it in perfect condition I assume you would pay more than what I listed it for.

No. You could get 2-3 different S-VHS or D-VHS machines for that price.

I clearly stated if it is DOA or not what I say it is you may ABSOLUTELY return it to me.

Then that's what needed to be stated in the auction, not a behind-the-scenes email.

_________________________

For anybody to buy a untested/unknown condition VCR in 2011 -- for $500+ -- is insanity. Given the inability to repair this early 1990s machine at this late date, it would be foolish to buy this deck, not knowing if it was broken or fully working (or somewhere halfway between).

Even if this VCR turns out to be fine, and the buyer smugly comes here insisting I'm wrong, consider this: Buying a VCR for this amount, and then celebrating it's not broken, is about as wise as humping a hooker, and then celebrating that you didn't get an STD. Sure, you got something for your money, but it was one hell of a stupid risk.

[NJRoadfan]

For anybody to buy a untested/unknown condition VCR in 2011 -- for $500+ -- is insanity. Given the inability to repair this early 1990s machine at this late date, it would be foolish to buy this deck, not knowing if it was broken or fully working (or somewhere halfway between).

Tell that to anyone laying out big bucks for a rare high end Betamax deck, or even an ED Beta machine. Luckily there are specialist outlets that only fix Betamax machines out there. Heck, even the more common mid-range SuperBeta Hi-Fi machines routinely sell for $200 in as-is condition. I do agree on the no more then $100 price tag for untested VHS machines though, I lucked out on a DVHS machine. Still waiting for a AG-1980 to pop up thats somewhat affordable and tested though. Way too many of those machines with a high price tag and a description of "un-tested, we don't know how to test it."... hint, put a tape in the machine and push play.

[DHewes]

Lordsmurf: I understand you have been around here a long time and probably have forgotten more about VCR's then I ever knew to begin with. I am sure you are a well respected person on this forum. You even appear to make a sincere attempt to help people, which is great. I get it...I think everyone else does to.

That said, step out of your giant shoes for 5 minutes and look at it this way: Let’s say you ran into some money and bought some things a few years ago. Let’s assume you know very little about firearms, but you know you want a “cool sniper rifle”. You went to a gun show and found this cool looking Nesika Bay Model T in 7BR with a McMillan stock, Shilen Select barrel, March scope, Jewell trigger, etc. While this is a great benchrest rifle, it is NOT a sniper rifle, but some guy on a forum told you it was cool. A few years later after firing it only a couple times - because you found you had to hand reload the ammunition for it because the neck was so tight - you decide to sell it. How exactly do you determine your starting price?

Much like a VCR there are a dozen factors that could make the rifle valuable (the one I described would be about $6,500) or nearly worthless. You could go to Benchrest Central's “For Sale” forum and compare to other similar listings. You could look up the prices new. You have what you paid as a reference. The fact is there are many variables that would impact the value of that rifle/scope - things you may not ever of even heard of nor own the right equipment to properly test. Things like chamber dimensions, condition of the grooves, round count, trigger weight, what OAL the chamber prefers, neck diameter, etc. But you have to start somewhere. You could take it someplace....but where? Your local gun store wouldn't have a clue unless they were hard core 1,000 yard benchrest shooters - of which there are VERY few (trust me on that..it's a bit more difficult than in the movies). The only completely accurate way would be to find an expert and get his advice in person after he inspected the rifle.

Well, I did not know anyone well versed in VCR's. So I took what I could find and ran with it. By your comments you would seem to be suggesting that any seller who is not an expert should not be allowed to sell an item – or if they do, they must sell it at a giveaway price. So I’ll give you $200 for that rifle.

The market value of something may or may not have any relevance to the actual worth of something (just ask Franklin Mint). If someone (and in my case at least 3 people) is willing to pay a certain price, than that is its market current value.

I understand your points and respect your opinion to not bid on a VCR online without inspecting it. That does, however, greatly reduce your odds of getting that particular model. Your point above is simply translated as "My price was not worth it TO YOU." It clearly was worth it to someone. Your advice, while absolutely sound from a “protect the buyer at all costs” standpoint is much like Consumer Reports magazine. They give advice to protect the consumer. If everyone followed their advice we would all drive Toyota Camrys. Some people are willing to buy that Mustang or Corvette even though Consumer Reports did not recommend it. Does that mean they were idiots? Your post would seem to suggest that anyone failing to adhere to the advice of a self proclaimed expert is in fact an idiot.

Now, I watch used things sell for more than the identical item new all day long on eBay, so to an extent I agree. But I do not limit that to eBay. There is no shortage of crap that is completely not worth its price and yet sells all day long both online and in brick and mortar businesses. Sometimes it is a misinformed consumer; sometimes the buyer has a genuine need. What if the buyer is in fact one of those experts who is completely qualified to repair this VCR? What if he has a business buying these under $1,000, fixing them and then selling them for $3,000? (BTW, the refurb units I found were all in the $3,000 range – WAY over my start price.) Is he an idiot too? Or, gasp, what if I actually listed this honestly and it is what I say it is? Is the $760 closing price not a bargain then?

You state that you could get 2-3 S-VHS or D-VHS decks for the same price. I am not sure what that has to do with anything, as this is not one of those. If someone wanted this particular model with these particular features for whatever reason, then it wouldn’t matter if you could get 50 S-VHS players for the same price anymore than someone buying a Porsche cares about the price of that Camry.

Finally, to your last point. You accuse me (via inference) of trying to scam because I only stated that I would accept DOA returns in email. Obviously you did not read my very short ad, which clearly stated :

This will be shipped via UPS Ground with insurance. While I state that there are no returns, if this does in fact arrive DOA I will refund your cost, less shipping.

So am I trying to scam someone, or are you too lazy to read my very short ad?

I am sincerely not trying to attack you here, but let’s be honest – you have made this thread a giant attack on me simply to demonstrate your superiority on the subject matter. Again, I do not doubt your expertise in this area – just as there are many areas where my knowledge and experience would far exceed yours. I still wouldn’t attack you or call you and anyone that deals with you an idiot. That is just childish.

Given your clear omnipotence though, please advice me as to what YOU would have done in my situation. How would you determine the price for that rifle and how would you list it?

[jbd5010]

...is about as wise as humping a hooker, and then celebrating that you didn't get an std. Sure, you got something for your money, but it was one hell of a stupid risk.

lol

[lordsmurf]

some guy on a forum told you it was cool.

I still do further research. There is also the issue of informational authority. (But I'm not getting into that psychological communication dissertation right now. I have other work to write.)

I understand your points and respect your opinion to not bid on a VCR online without inspecting it.

The seller should inspect it, not the buyer.

It clearly was worth it to someone.

Or, as I believe in this case, "a fool and his money are soon parted".

Your advice, while absolutely sound from a “protect the buyer at all costs” standpoint is much like Consumer Reports magazine.

Not at all. Consumer Reports is over-protectionist and somewhat wonky. I'm nowhere near their level of absurdity when it comes to buying advice. If they had their way, everybody would also be using off-brand point and shoot cameras and not DSLRs from Nikon or Canon.

please advice me as to what YOU would have done in my situation. How would you determine the price for that rifle and how would you list it?

More research than a simple random cost analysis.

The thing about my field is that I don't have to know everything -- I simply have to know people who do. While I know video and am my own source, I could quite easily find information on firearms. Off-hand, I can think of 4 great contacts, and if they don't know, they'll be able to further point me to somebody who does. (And we're talking military special forces, not Joebob the Po-leese-man.)

I don't much have interest in conversing with John Q Already-Sold-It. My posts here are more for other members that want to sell gear, and those who would look to buy it. Had the gear been inspected and verified to work, it could have easily gotten into an idiotic bidding war into the 4-digit price range. As untested gear, it's a gamble with an opening $500 bid, and I'd rather go to the casino. That's my advice to readers, and I'm done discussing it.

Enjoy the $760 and good luck with the buyer. I just hope the machine actually works for that price.

[Seeker47]

I would advise anybody to NEVER BID MORE THAN $100 SHIPPED on an untested unit.

I think you would find that in the real world this will leave you OUT of 98% of the auctions, and with extremely low chances of winning on the rest -- unless it is a pot luck for spare parts type of deal. I've bought a few VCRs on eBay over the years (although not super-fancy, or all that expensive, with one possible exception). For the most part, they turned out to be in reasonably good condition. I think the cheapest of them was at least twice your stated bid-budget. Without shipping -- and these were mostly heavy enough where that was a significant factor. Tested / Untested ? Unless it is a shop you are dealing with, that guarantees your purchase in some way, you generally just have someone's word for this, in any case. And we have to make a semi-educated guess as to what that may be worth, in each case.

Incidentally, something I was trying to remember to say earlier in this thread: There may or may not be any returns accepted on a particular auction, but one thing that might be worth taking into consideration is the presence of the "eBay Buyer Protection" insignia. I have no first-hand knowledge as to whether this feature makes an important difference, but maybe some of you do. It used to be that you mainly saw this on auctions from eBay Powersellers, but from my observations it looks to have become a lot more common than that.

Consumer Reports magazine. They give advice to protect the consumer. If everyone followed their advice we would all drive Toyota Camrys. Some people are willing to buy that Mustang or Corvette even though Consumer Reports did not recommend it.

Not at all. Consumer Reports is over-protectionist and somewhat wonky. I'm nowhere near their level of absurdity when it comes to buying advice. If they had their way, everybody would also be using off-brand point and shoot cameras and not DSLRs from Nikon or Canon.

I seem to recall your being very critical of them in the past. But they do a lot of very useful product research. The trick is knowing how to process it, and recognizing particular areas where they happen to get way out of their depth. (Cameras being one good example.) Until not that many years ago, their car reviews seemed to be slotted towards what your grandmother might prefer to drive. (Assuming that she wasn't the "Little Old Lady From Pasadena." ) Eventually they got a lot more "with it" in terms of evaluating sports or drivers' cars -- for what they are -- but I still wouldn't take their appraisals as being among the higher arbiters for this category. (Still, there would be some useful info, most likely.) Their dealer price breakdowns on specific makes and models are a great tool to have, when you go car shopping. Well worth the 12 bucks, or whatever they charge now.

Some time ago, I had to buy a new vacuum cleaner. I was appalled to find the better models of the big-name brands selling for around $600.! But page after page of customer comments online complained how these were now mostly POS junk, flimsily made, that broke in less than two years ! Even though I won't be the one using the vacuum, I'm sorry but my pockets ain't so deep that I can afford to throw that kind of money away. (The previous vacuum cleaner had lasted around 20 years.) Consumer Reports directed me to a Miele model that cost around the same amount of money, but has proven to be a very wise investment. The housekeeper says it is just the best -- and she has a number of clients that have various other brands. This is one of many instances where CR has really come through for me, over the years.

Tell that to anyone laying out big bucks for a rare high end Betamax deck, or even an ED Beta machine. Luckily there are specialist outlets that only fix Betamax machines out there. Heck, even the more common mid-range SuperBeta Hi-Fi machines routinely sell for $200 in as-is condition. I do agree on the no more then $100 price tag for untested VHS machines though, I lucked out on a DVHS machine. Still waiting for a AG-1980 to pop up thats somewhat affordable and tested though. Way too many of those machines with a high price tag and a description of "un-tested, we don't know how to test it."... hint, put a tape in the machine and push play.

Been there, done that. There used to be a highly-regarded guy in N. Calif. for fixing Beta decks, but he seems to have disappeared. (If you or anyone else know of such outfits that are both very competent and very reliable, please PM me. I would be rather skeptical about parts availability, by this time. Having dealt with Sony Repair Centers in the past, I would consider that option to be off the table.) You will still find the occasional auction for rare or high-end Beta decks, with HIGH prices and more than a few bidders. (Sorry, LS, but they aren't all dopes. Formula = need or desire + scarcity x individual budget.) If you're after a higher-end SVHS -- like the AG-1980 -- and want both qualified pre-testing + a warranty for your money, you should probably buy it from an outfit like Southern Advantage.

[lordsmurf]

Formula = need or desire + scarcity x individual budget

Part of this thread has been dedicated to warnings on why you would not need or want/desire this particular unit. The formula also fails to account for condition. Remember that a bad VCR can damage valuable tapes. So risk is high, and it's not simply monetary loss at stake.

"un-tested, we don't know how to test it."... hint, put a tape in the machine and push play.

As per this quote from NJ, "untested" tends to be a piss-poor excuse. I'd only cut a person some slack if it were a now-rare format, like a U-matic deck.

I'd also note that comparisons between S-VHS and Betamax/Betacam are somewhat unequal. Parts harvesting is now a major determining factor for the non-VHS formats, and scarcity there is pushing the prices.

[NJRoadfan]

Been there, done that. There used to be a highly-regarded guy in N. Calif. for fixing Beta decks, but he seems to have disappeared. (If you or anyone else know of such outfits that are both very competent and very reliable, please PM me. I would be rather skeptical about parts availability, by this time. Having dealt with Sony Repair Centers in the past, I would consider that option to be off the table.) You will still find the occasional auction for rare or high-end Beta decks, with HIGH prices and more than a few bidders. (Sorry, LS, but they aren't all dopes. Formula = need or desire + scarcity x individual budget.) If you're after a higher-end SVHS -- like the AG-1980 -- and want both qualified pre-testing + a warranty for your money, you should probably buy it from an outfit like Southern Advantage.

Some parts are available from Sony still. These guys only do Beta repairs and likely have a stockpile of stuff.

http://www.mrbetamax.com/
http://www.absolutebeta.com/

I was looking at machines from Southern Advantage, but they are pricey. I'd hope they re-cap the entire machine for that price. I don't have an immediate need for an AG-1980 to justify the cost, but its nice knowing some place will stand behind their products.

[DHewes]

Lordsmurf - With my rifle example I was attempting to demonstrate that sometimes people who are not experts on a particular subject end up with items that they know little about and were probably a poor purchase decision for them in the first place. Some people spend hours researching a $10 purchase; others buy $10,000 items on impulse. That is just how the world is. Now they want to sell an item to make space, get some of the investment back, whatever.

Your posts progressively convey the same fundamental theme: A non-expert buyer does not have the right to attempt to sell an item for what he believes is a fair price. In fact, a non expert does not even have the right to attempt to let the open market decide, but instead must concede to take a huge loss as a penalty for not being an expert.

Despite your own admission that if this VCR was tested by someone like yourself it would clearly have been worth over $1,000, you continue to essentially describe my $500 starting bid as an outright scam.

Your example of finding experts is great, to an extent, but once digested it does not hold water. I was in the U.S.M.C. in a capacity to have extensive rifle experience. I am an NRA instructor, concealed carry instructor and 3rd generation of lifelong competitive marksman. I can assure you that 9 out of 10 "experts" on rifles could not properly take the measurements and make judgments on competition benchrest rifles - though 11 out of 10 would gladly render an expert opinion. In order for your argument to hold up to scrutiny you would have to essentially find a trusted, known name in the sport – one of maybe 50 guys in the country at most. Then that person would have to take the time to cast the chamber, take measures with a micrometer/caliper, load various rounds of ammo to test for ideal OAL, etc. Hours and hours of work. To find and compensate someone for this would result in significantly diminishing returns on any potential sale. We both know you would never go to this length even if you got lucky and had a local contact. In fact, how exactly would you even be qualified to tell if the person you were talking to was qualified to tell? You have no idea how many rifle "experts" I listen to in gun stores and laugh my butt off for hours afterwards – including special forces guys. I know people in my town that work with A/V, but I could not tell you which was just the president of the A/V club in high school and which is a seasoned professional from the broadcasting industry with an EE degree that could tell me everything I wanted to know.

Your point is that you do not trust any seller unless he is a known quantity or backed by a known quantity. Judging by your various postings I would say there are what, 4 maybe 5 people on Earth that you would trust to tell you the VCR is in perfect working condition? Apparently I owe you an apology for not tracking one of these folks down and getting a Notary Public to witness their testimony.

[jbd5010]

I was looking at machines from Southern Advantage, but they are pricey. I'd hope they re-cap the entire machine for that price. I don't have an immediate need for an AG-1980 to justify the cost, but its nice knowing some place will stand behind their products.

In light of the discussion (argument) going on in this thread, I realize there's significant value in purchasing from someone (or a business) who knows what they're doing, and even more value if a warranty is offered. However, Southern Advantage's prices always struck me as rather expensive. Their AG-1980's are $1200. Let's assume they DO re-cap one of those (and I believe they do). I'd still hesitate to pay $1200. You figure a crappy hit-or-miss unit on eBay is $100. Add $30/hour labor... give someone 10 hours of working on the unit (reasonable if you assume that person does this for a living and isn't figuring it out for the first time), plus $100 in parts (you could buy a sh*t-ton of caps for that! Plus other parts), then add 60% markup. That still puts you at $800.

On the other hand, if VHS conversion is your day job (not me!), I guess $1200 for something you can rely on AND receive support for might be worth it.

[Seeker47]

I was looking at machines from Southern Advantage, but they are pricey. I'd hope they re-cap the entire machine for that price. I don't have an immediate need for an AG-1980 to justify the cost, but its nice knowing some place will stand behind their products.

Southern Advantage's prices always struck me as rather expensive. Their AG-1980's are $1200. Let's assume they DO re-cap one of those (and I believe they do). I'd still hesitate to pay $1200.

I'm not sure where you're pulling that figure from -- maybe their price for leftover unused stock ? I've seen eBay listings from them for reconditioned units that I don't think ran more than $350. + shipping, with a 'Make Us an Offer' button attached to the auction, plus what may have been a one-year warranty. (It was at least 90 days.) AND it was still eligible for (extra cost) warranty extension, either through them or through SquareTrade. That sounds a lot more reasonable to me. Do their reconditioned units get new caps ? Good question -- someone should ask them, straight up.

@NJRoadfan -- thanks for those referrals. Do you know how reliable they are ? Southern Advantage also occasionally sells -- and I think would service -- the better Beta decks, but I think I'd rather go with a firm that specializes in this.

[jbd5010]

http://www.soadv.com/Merchant2/merchant.mvc?Screen=PROD&Product_Code=PANAG1980&Categor...sonicS-VHSVCRs

[Seeker47]

http://www.soadv.com/Merchant2/merchant.mvc?Screen=PROD&Product_Code=PANAG1980&Categor...sonicS-VHSVCRs

From the description, that ought to be a pristine unit. Nowhere does it mention refurb, and if it was they should be obligated to do so. (It's also not one of their many eBay listings, which is what I was referring to.) I did not think the 1980 was still in production, but there must still be some never sold or unused units around.

[jbd5010]

Who knows. I was able to get a bunch of HM-DH30000U's direct JVC refurbished and an HR-S5900U refurb from eCost.com in January. I didn't keep any of them. They also informed me when my order was canceled that I only missed getting their last HR-S9500U by 10 days.

I got a 30000U from a guy for $20 that I ended up fixing. He had an eCost.com receipt from 2002 in the box ($800!!!)... so from what I can tell, they literally had these sitting in their warehouse for 9 years. It's crazy sometimes what gets shuffled to the bottom of the paperwork and forgotten about. Who knows how many factory-sealed 1980's or even SR-W5U's there are out there...

[Seeker47]

Who knows. I was able to get a bunch of HM-DH30000U's direct JVC refurbished and an HR-S5900U refurb from eCost.com in January. I didn't keep any of them. They also informed me when my order was canceled that I only missed getting their last HR-S9500U by 10 days.

I got a 30000U from a guy for $20 that I ended up fixing. He had an eCost.com receipt from 2002 in the box ($800!!!)... so from what I can tell, they literally had these sitting in their warehouse for 9 years. It's crazy sometimes what gets shuffled to the bottom of the paperwork and forgotten about. Who knows how many factory-sealed 1980's or even SR-W5U's there are out there...

It may just be another random brain-fart, but ISTR someone like edDV saying that production on the AG-1980 continued until years later than most of us might have guessed. Clearly, there has been some continuing demand for them. That being the case, and IF a distributor made the right sort of offer, it's not too hard to imagine a few outfits buying a couple pallets of the remaining stock, knowing they could gradually sell them off at a tidy profit. And some leftover stock could always get rediscovered at the back of a warehouse, like you said.

As to private sellers, I have not really done this with exotic or expensive gear, and I'm probably less of an impulse buyer than DHewes admits to being, but there are one or two items I dropped a couple bills on (new) but never took out of the box. Plans or priorities change, stuff happens.

[jbd5010]

My $90 AG-1980 eBay special from KPSurplus has been serving me very well... no chroma or herringbone noise, no bad caps that have manifested themselves in the video quality. It had stickers all over the front so I was the only one that bid on it. Peeled them off and cleaned off the glue. It's probably worth $200 or more in the operational and cosmetic condition it's in... but I'm not gonna sell it

[NJRoadfan]

@NJRoadfan -- thanks for those referrals. Do you know how reliable they are ? Southern Advantage also occasionally sells -- and I think would service -- the better Beta decks, but I think I'd rather go with a firm that specializes in this.

Mr. Betamax does good work based on what I've read. Not cheap, but thats expected for someone who is good and has a niche focus. The owner is quick to respond to repair inquires too.

The $1200 AG-1980 is clearly NOS NIB, I was referring to the $350 refurb units. Southern Advantage also has a Sony SL-HF2000 Superbeta machine NIB too, those haven't been in production since 2002.

[Seeker47]

@NJRoadfan -- thanks for those referrals. Do you know how reliable they are ? Southern Advantage also occasionally sells -- and I think would service -- the better Beta decks, but I think I'd rather go with a firm that specializes in this.

Mr. Betamax does good work based on what I've read. Not cheap, but thats expected for someone who is good and has a niche focus. The owner is quick to respond to repair inquires too.

The $1200 AG-1980 is clearly NOS NIB, I was referring to the $350 refurb units. Southern Advantage also has a Sony SL-HF2000 Superbeta machine NIB too, those haven't been in production since 2002.

If memory serves, the 2000 was an nsg (not so good) model that was too often and too easily confused with the "ultimate" 2100 anniversary model -- at least by some who had not done their homework. The 2100 being the one with the way-too-fancy touch-screen remote, and other unique features. Some years back, I was tempted for a nanosecond to bid on a "barely used" one of those, being sold by a private seller with a good rep. But I came to my senses very quickly. That auction closed for something like 2.5 Large . . . !

[jbd5010]

Do their reconditioned units get new caps ? Good question -- someone should ask them, straight up.

I emailed Ed at Southern Advantage....

Q: I had a question about the AG-1980 refurbished decks you guys sell on eBay periodically. Do you replace all the capacitors in the machine, or maybe just the bad ones?

A: In most cases , we replace all the caps. and we do a full warranty too.

So there ya go.

[Seeker47]

Do their reconditioned units get new caps ? Good question -- someone should ask them, straight up.

I emailed Ed at Southern Advantage....

Q: I had a question about the AG-1980 refurbished decks you guys sell on eBay periodically. Do you replace all the capacitors in the machine, or maybe just the bad ones?

A: In most cases , we replace all the caps. and we do a full warranty too.

So there ya go.

Good to know. Thanx for that.

I just remembered something else. Early in this thread, someone asked about the remarkable similarity between an older auction listing and a current one, wondering if this might indicate the same seller, same item, or some sort of scam. While all of those are possible, in many cases, there is another explanation that need not involve chicanery. Sellers frequently copy descriptions and re-use stock photos. So long as there is no intent to deceive, it is often a matter of convenience or simple laziness. If someone else has taken the trouble to dig up the specs on an item, or even some capsule reviews, it's tempting to just take the shortcut. (If I were selling something, I'd rather write my own copy, but that's just me.) That's why you see so many listings from different sellers for the same item that read pretty much the same. Is this unethical, or as bad as cribbing sections of your term paper from online sources ? If a description is accurate for the item I'm buying, I would not personally care, but You Decide.

[jbd5010]

I just remembered something else. Early in this thread, someone asked about the remarkable similarity between an older auction listing and a current one, wondering if this might indicate the same seller, same item, or some sort of scam. While all of those are possible, in many cases, there is another explanation that need not involve chicanery. Sellers frequently copy descriptions and re-use stock photos. So long as there is no intent to deceive, it is often a matter of convenience or simple laziness. If someone else has taken the trouble to dig up the specs on an item, or even some capsule reviews, it's tempting to just take the shortcut. (If I were selling something, I'd rather write my own copy, but that's just me.) That's why you see so many listings from different sellers for the same item that read pretty much the same. Is this unethical, or as bad as cribbing sections of your term paper from online sources ? If a description is accurate for the item I'm buying, I would not personally care, but You Decide.

You're probably referring to when I said this:

It is the same listing title, "Last one we have!" as the one I bid on back in January (makes me wonder if it was actually some sort of scam--this listing has identical photos, etc). It was being sold from Canada, and the shipping itself would've been about $100. I gave up because I hit $300 shipped and the reserve still wasn't met.

I've had people copy-and-paste my item descriptions before. I normally don't mind sharing stuff, but I personally put a lot of effort into my listing descriptions. I provide a numerical rating of functional and cosmetic condition, and I list all of the specific tests I've done on the item and the results of those tests. In one case, the person even copied my personal explanation about the history of the item's use (how I had never used certain functions, when/where I purchased the item, etc)! So now I put a copyright statement at the bottom and indicate that other sellers may not copy and paste my descriptions. I don't actually copyright my listings (duh) but putting it there anyway seems to be effective.

So in this context, THAT's the kind of stuff that make listings look shady. Copying technical descriptions is one thing, but when you see "Oh I put this in my equipment rack back on August 5th, 1996 and I never used it except for one project where I made a video slideshow for my grandmother" on MULTIPLE listings from DIFFERENT sellers? Either they're being shady or exceptionally lazy since they didn't even bother to delete someone else's personal narrative from their listing.

But I agree, no harm in stock photos or stock item descriptions... as long as they really are "stock."

[NJRoadfan]

If memory serves, the 2000 was an nsg (not so good) model that was too often and too easily confused with the "ultimate" 2100 anniversary model -- at least by some who had not done their homework. The 2100 being the one with the way-too-fancy touch-screen remote, and other unique features. Some years back, I was tempted for a nanosecond to bid on a "barely used" one of those, being sold by a private seller with a good rep. But I came to my senses very quickly. That auction closed for something like 2.5 Large . . . !

Unless you really need S-Video I/O, the SL-HF2100 is overkill for transfer work. The only thing it has over the 2000 is Beta I Super High Band 6.0mhz recording, while the 2000 is playback only. SHB tapes are so rare, chances are if you have one, you recorded it yourself with a deck you own. The 2000 and 2100 are the only Betamax decks with automatic tracking, which could be helpful on some tapes. I myself have a SL-HF860D, it'll properly play every Betamax tape except for the SHB 6.0Mhz ones, which is about 99.999% of tapes out in the wild.

[DHewes]

Update On My SR-W5U

The buyer of my deck on eBay is a member of this forum and is familiar with this thread. I do not believe the buyer has posted on this thread but has referenced a few quotes from it in questions to me prior to the close of the auction. Well, I just received an email from the buyer. I am not sure if this person will confirm this here or not, so yes, maybe I am making this all up to, huh LordSmurf?

I did edit things that could identify the buyer - it is not my place to announce who it is. I also did edit out something I screwed up - I mistakenly and unintentionally left a tape in the deck. The buyer informed me (in a couple sentences I removed) that no damage was done but this is a big no no.

I would like to note that the buyer is not an amateur – literally. The buyer has a brick and mortar store and a professional web site offering various services utilizing this type of equipment. The buyer would absolutely know if this deck was as I claimed.



From: eBay Member: xxxxxxxx [mailto:XXXXXXXXXXXXX@members.ebay.com]
Sent: Saturday, April 09, 2011 12:17 PM
To: XXXXXXXX@XXXXXXXXXX.XXX
Subject: Re: mrhiball sent a message about JVC Pro SR-W5U VHS / S-VHS VCR Excellent Condition #110667668979



eBay sent this message to (mrhiball).
Your registered name is included to show this message originated from eBay. Learn more.

Buyer has responded to your question about this item

Do not respond to the sender if this message requests that you complete the transaction outside of eBay. This type of offer is against eBay policy, may be fraudulent, and is not covered by buyer protection programs. Learn More.


Dear mrhiball,

Hello again,

I unpacked and tried out the VCR this morning. Everything works great, as far as I can tell. Played a VHS tape in it, rewound and fast forwarded...I don't see any problems.


You did a great job on the packing. That's exactly how you're supposed to pack decks: the unit in the original box, with styrofoam ends (if you still have them), inside a slightly larger box with peanuts. The "Mr. Betamax" site has extensive instructions for doing this correctly.

If you want to mention that it all turned out fine on VideoHelp, that's fine with me. Thanks again. Just let me know what to do with the tape.
- xxxxxxxxxx
Click "respond" to reply through Messages, or go to your email to reply

[Seeker47]

Unless you really need S-Video I/O, the SL-HF2100 is overkill for transfer work. The only thing it has over the 2000 is Beta I Super High Band 6.0mhz recording, while the 2000 is playback only. SHB tapes are so rare, chances are if you have one, you recorded it yourself with a deck you own. The 2000 and 2100 are the only Betamax decks with automatic tracking, which could be helpful on some tapes. I myself have a SL-HF860D, it'll properly play every Betamax tape except for the SHB 6.0Mhz ones, which is about 99.999% of tapes out in the wild.

The auto-tracking sounds like an interesting feature. I was quite a fan of B1-SHB, even if just for personal use -- thought it totally blew away any SVHS I ever saw. (Just out of curiosity, would have liked to have seen what ED-Beta looked like. The metal tape seems like it would have been a substantial limitation and complication, though.)

[NJRoadfan]

(Just out of curiosity, would have liked to have seen what ED-Beta looked like. The metal tape seems like it would have been a substantial limitation and complication, though.)

ED-Beta was capable of 9Mhz on the luma channel (500 lines), nearly DVD quality. Of course the chroma was limited to standard Betamax levels (0.6Mhz). The quality of the format was good enough that Sony purposely crippled it by not adding any time code capabilities since it might have threatened the Betacam SP cash cow.

@DHewes: It doesn't surprise me that the Mr. Betamax site came up, his packing instructions ARE the safest way to ship a heavy VCR without it getting damaged.

[lordsmurf]

huh LordSmurf?

My opinion is unswayed.
As I already mentioned at the top of page 4:

Even if this VCR turns out to be fine, and the buyer smugly comes here insisting I'm wrong, consider this: Buying a VCR for this amount, and then celebrating it's not broken, is about as wise as humping a hooker, and then celebrating that you didn't get an STD. Sure, you got something for your money, but it was one hell of a stupid risk.

I'm honestly glad the deal turned out well.
The next time, same situation, it could be different. That's how this whole thread started, after all.
The first person was screwed, the second was lucky.
Who wants to play "VCR roulette" next? (And to the tune of $500+ per spin!)

[jbd5010]

One thing I know nothing about is Betamax. I mean, I know the technical differences between Beta and VHS, but I don't know what the best, half-decent, worst, etc. decks are for Betamax. Any good, definitive threads floating around on that? I did a brief search but nothing stuck out to me.

Maybe someone should come out with a Betamax Buying Guide like Lordsmurf's VHS guide!

[orsetto]

The only Beta models still floating around in working condition are the Sonys. There were excellent Beta HiFi vcrs made by Toshiba and NEC in the mid-80s, but most are long since broken down and unrepairable. The Sonys are highly variable, some remain reliable/repairable while others are funky. At minimum you'll want a mid-period Beta HiFi model like SL-HF300 or SL-HF500 (same basic model, either will do). The following year saw the SL-HF400, similar to 300 and 500 but adds MTS stereo tuner, then a followup SL-HF450. Then came SuperBeta (i.e. "SVHS") versions, SL300 (mono audio) and SL-HF350 (HiFi), and finally SL330 (mono) and SL-HF360 (HiFi).

All other Sony Betas are a PITA for one reason or another: too old, too unreliable, or too arcane and subject to cultist feeding frenzies (anything with more than two video heads, anything with a drop down front panel, anything ED-Beta, pretty much anything made after 1987). The models I've listed were basic bread-and-butter models that are largely ignored now by Beta fanatics, they can be found in average working condition for $125-300 depending on seller and if its been recently reconditioned. Cult high-end models like the coveted SL-HF900 are a lost cause, you'll pay thru the nose, ditto the final ED-Beta units. Unless you actually have ED-Beta tapes to digitize, or intend to keep making fresh Beta recordings indefinitely, there is no point splurging on one of the later high-end models: leave them to the collectors. There is no equivalent Beta to something like a Panasonic AG1980 or JVC 9911, so don't think you're missing anything by opting for a midrange or basic model (Beta was Beta, Sony didn't make crap low-end models, or units with TBC/DNR: the more expensive Betas merely add luxury features and/or high-band recording).The SL-HF300, 400, 450 or 500 should cover any normal Beta tape just fine, if you have any SuperBeta tapes then try for a 350 or 360.

I use a 300 and a 500 for my digitizing. Soild vcrs that track well and stay reliable.

[Seeker47]

One thing I know nothing about is Betamax. I mean, I know the technical differences between Beta and VHS, but I don't know what the best, half-decent, worst, etc. decks are for Betamax. Any good, definitive threads floating around on that? I did a brief search but nothing stuck out to me.

Maybe someone should come out with a Betamax Buying Guide like Lordsmurf's VHS guide!

I would expect that Orsetto's comments will be the most practical and grounded in the real-world, but I just did a Google search for Ray Glasser (whose web page address has changed a couple times, since back when I had some correspondence with him, years ago), and came up with this:

http://www.betainfoguide.net/

http://laughingsquid.com/ray-glasser-keeping-betamax-alive/

The first of these -- if it still has the same site contents I remember -- may well have under one roof more than most anyone would care to know about Beta gear, the various models ever made, etc. But it is likely tilted towards collectors and enthusiasts, with an emphasis on the high-end models. Just so you know that, going in.

[NJRoadfan]

The only Beta models still floating around in working condition are the Sonys.

I'd add Sanyo to the list, they are the roaches of the Betamax world. Impossible to kill and ugly to look at. Their video quality was "meh", but they can be found at a thift store and repaired with a $15 belt and idler kit. The one thing that Beta fans hated about the machines was the fact that they threaded the tape back into the cassette every time you hit the stop button (like 80s VHS machines). This had a side effect of prolonging head life since the tape wasn't always running across it. They also make great dedicated rewinders as a result.