Premiere Elements 9 or Sony Vegas Movie Studio HD Platinum 10 Suite?

[HoosierGuy]

I'm new to editing. I'm about to buy a used Sony MiniDV camcorder in a few days. I want to start shooting my own video and start editing it. The goal is to learn how to
edit good scenes and such. My real goal is to go back to college and take some classes on film/TV editing. But that will be this summer or next fall, so now I want to practice.
I know the cam I'm going to get. After I get that I want to buy some basic editing software.

I'm looking at Adobe Premiere Elements 9 or the Sony Vegas Movie Studio HD Platinum 10 Suite. I will be shooting in standard definition since I was told that it will be faster
to edit on my computers. My laptop that I want to use has a 1.60GHz duo processor with 1GB or ram. I would consider upgrading the ram if that will help.

I'm looking for something that I can learn, study, read about, and grow with. Amazon has the Adobe Premiere Elements for around $89. Amazon has the Sony Suite for $94.

Of course I want to move to Final Cut Pro but that will be in the future after I get a Mac. But for now I want to start to practice editing with one of these two programs.

Thanks

[vid83]

You can go to the products' site and download a free trial.

I'm using the free trial of Sony Vegas Movie Studio HD Platinum 10. I've tried Adobe Premiere Elements trial in the past and its too basic. For the same price range, you can do more with Vegas. The interface for Vegas looks complicated and take a while to get used to but I definitely get Vegas over Premiere Elements. You have more control with it. It almost feels like having Adobe Premiere Pro, which costs over $600.

[budwzr]

FCP is for gays, Premiere is for wusses, and Vegas is for manly men. Now you know the truth, and can make an informed decision

[HoosierGuy]

I know Adobe makes a professional editing program. I thought people would recommend Adobe Elements because it would help them if they move
on to the professional Adobe program. So the Sony program is better than the Adobe Elements program?

[edDV]

I know Adobe makes a professional editing program. I thought people would recommend Adobe Elements because it would help them if they move
on to the professional Adobe program. So the Sony program is better than the Adobe Elements program?

B&H has Vegas Plat 10 for $59.
http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/748302-REG/Sony_MASPVMS10000_Vegas_Movie_Studio_HD.html

Premiere Elements is for consumers that want wizzard help. Vegas Platinum is a slightly stripped down version of the Pro program. The skills you learn on any semi-pro editor will transfer to others.

If you know your long term goal is Premiere Pro, you should buy a used version of Premiere Pro and learn that. For DV format only shop Premiere Pro 2, or CS3 up.

[HoosierGuy]

I just ordered a used Sony MiniDV cam 20x off Amazon. It was around $150.00 It does come with a seven day return policy and the description says used once on vacation and it's like new. So after that comes in the mail I will try it out hard and heavy and then order the Sony editing program.

[TreeTops]

"used once on vacation and it's like new." Just like when you buy a used car and the salesman says "it was only driven once a week to the store by a little old lady"

[edDV]

...
B&H has Vegas Plat 10 for $59.
http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/748302-REG/Sony_MASPVMS10000_Vegas_Movie_Studio_HD.html

Just noticed that is an edication discount. Others have it at $69 and from time to time Sony offers $30 competitive product upgrade rebates.

[budwzr]

I got a few discounts by e-mailing and asking how I can get a coupon code, although I never tried it with Vegas. Any website that has a coupon or promo code box is fair game. Obviously they are accepting coupons, right?

If I call the local pizza place, I can get a large pep pizza for $6, if I walk in it's $8.

Many businesses will not let you walk away, especially online.

[edDV]

I got a few discounts by e-mailing and asking how I can get a coupon code, although I never tried it with Vegas. Any website that has a coupon or promo code box is fair game. Obviously they are accepting coupons, right?

If I call the local pizza place, I can get a large pep pizza for $6, if I walk in it's $8.

Many businesses will not let you walk away, especially online.

Dunno. I just know I was promised a Vegas Platinum 10 for $39 after a rebate plus competitive rebate offer off a Frys ad. I sent them the box of Pinnacle Studio 9. So far Sony emailed me to say the rebate was accepted but the first check was only $20. Still waiting for the rest.

[budwzr]

Those Fry's rebates are notoriously full of roadblocks and fine print. I quit on them a long time ago after getting disqualified for some trivial error or omission. They already got your money, so you have no leverage and they could care less.

Put the money out on a fish hook instead, and be ready to walk. You can always do the jacked up deal later if you absolutely have to have it. Sometimes they don't respond right away, so just hang back and keep cool. If you follow up first, you blow your cover, and you'll get less discount.

And don't forget to be courteous because some people will get offended and block your deal. You can even apologize and feign embarrassment that you're so poor. I told one guy that my wife has me on a strict budget and we have three kids to take care of so my "computer money" is thin. One guy wished me luck and stated that he hoped I would enjoy the software.

Many people want to do a good deed or help others, but they can't wave it around on a flag and have too many discounts floating around or they'll go broke.

I use Hypersnap and Hypercam, and I got both at the same time for half price simply by asking. I just told them the truth that I'm a casual user that couldn't justify the price but that I did like the product (which is true).

Another score was 2BrightSparks Utility suite for half price. They're a UK based small outfit that has a handy set of utilities otherwise not found anywhere else. Same thing here, I couldn't justify the price but......

When you buy online, and download the software, their cost to sell you a copy vs. a lost sale is a tremendous motivator. In the hotel business they say "You can never sell last nights vacant rooms".

Don't want to pay $50 for DVDFab or VideoRedo or whatever, make them an offer! And go lowball or they'll counter you for 10% only. That's no good, 10% is for amateurs.

This one's a little OT, but the wife and I go to any church that's serving Thanksgiving dinner free (not skid row type) and have had some of the best turkey and pumpkin pie homemade by little grannys that use real cream and butter, not that restaurant crap. And they serve us and love doing it, and we're happy for them too.

[pgoelz]

Looks like you've chosen Vegas. Good choice, IMO. For anyone else wondering about Vegas vs. Adobe Premiere Elements, my experience with Premiere Elements was horrid (and that is being kind).

On my system at least (3GHz dual core with 4GB RAM), Premiere Elements was completely unable to handle projects with more than maybe 20 minutes of AVCHD video on the timeline. You could watch the RAM usage climb as the project got larger and at about 1.5GB give or take (at about 20 minutes on the timeline), it would do something bad. Sometimes it would freeze, sometimes it would crash, sometimes it would just close. And that is just what happens with large projects. It was also full of other quirks and issues.

I finally gave up and bought Vegas and ALL my issues vanished. Even the 32 bit version of Vegas was totally stable with several hours of the same AVCHD video on the timeline.

My best guess at the cause is that Premiere Elements is a 32 bit application and therefore cannot address more than 4GB of memory even in a 64 bit system, regardless of how much physical RAM you have or how much virtual memory the OS hands out. The way they handle video seems to consume a LOT of RAM and the usage increases as the project size increases (and sometimes even when it does not). The way I understand it, the OS only gives each 32 bit app 4GB, and that is split 50/50 between the system and the app. When the RAM usage passes 1.5GB, things get ugly.

Vegas does not seem to consume additional memory as the project size increases so even the 32 bit version is quite happy with any amount of AVCHD video I have placed on the timeline. It has been 100% stable and (wonder of wonders) does exactly what you tell it to do, every time. I can still remember the first couple largish projects I successfully rendered without incident. It was such a new concept

I am now using Vegas Pro because Sony made me an offer I could not refuse. But the studio version was just as good at handling large projects. I switched to Pro primarily because of the waveform and level metering in the Pro version.

Paul

[HoosierGuy]

Yep, I just ordered Sony Vegas Movie suite for $97.00 off amazon.

Will it take my MiniDV AVI video and let me split the audio and video so I can work with them separately?

I just put a video together I took at a graveyard. I did it with Window Movie Maker. I noticed it would have looked a lot better if the sound of the
wind and background stayed the same while I changed scenes. Now I'm thinking if I want to make really good vidoes in the future I'll should have a separate
audio recorder along with my video cam.

It's my first real video edit and I did it in under twenty minutes or so, not much effort put in. I just wanted to see if I could edit it and put it on youtube. I did edit it and save it back to AVI file and then opened it up using Handbrake and I think I deinterlaced it and compressed it to MP4 using Mpeg-4 codec. I THINK I did all that, I'm not 100% certain. I just downloaded handbrake a few nights ago along with Virtualdub.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3qnu9iISKaM

[HoosierGuy]

Can anybody tell me about this - I created a video about two minutes long using Windows Movie Maker. I saved in in DV AVI format. The size is 649MB. But when I click on it Windows Media Player will not play it. I can move the scrub bar across and see the difference scenes in my movie, but the movie will not play at all. I saved the movie again this time using the "for best computer playback" option and it plays fine in Windows Media Player but this file is only 37.3MB big. Will Windows Media Player not play not play my 649MB video because of the size or what?

[HoosierGuy]

I played the big file in the xvid player and it did play. So I can get the big file to play but just not in Windows Media player.

[budwzr]

Can anybody tell me about this - I created a video about two minutes long using Windows Movie Maker. I saved in in DV AVI format. The size is 649MB. But when I click on it Windows Media Player will not play it. I can move the scrub bar across and see the difference scenes in my movie, but the movie will not play at all. I saved the movie again this time using the "for best computer playback" option and it plays fine in Windows Media Player but this file is only 37.3MB big. Will Windows Media Player not play not play my 649MB video because of the size or what?

Since you're going to be switching to Vegas, forget about WMM and WMP. Get VLC to playback video. When you get your boxed Vegas, go to the Sony website and register and get the latest update. Also, you can download the trial version of Vegas MS and use it until you get your serial.

[HoosierGuy]

I finally got my other cable - Cam to TV via S-video. I'm impressed, it takes up the whole screen and the picture is just as good as it is on LCD screen on my HandyCam.

The TV is a Toshiba flat screen CRT (I think, not hi-def but has a hi-def mode). It's not a widescreen TV though.

Can someone tell me how in the world this can play on my TV and look very sharp and then when I put it on my computer and play it at the same bit rate
as it is on the MiniDV tape and play it full screen it does not look good at all? Playing full screen on my laptop this is even bars on the side. But on the TV, the image
takes up the whole screen and it has a sharp picture.

[edDV]

I finally got my other cable - Cam to TV via S-video. I'm impressed, it takes up the whole screen and the picture is just as good as it is on LCD screen on my HandyCam.

The TV is a Toshiba flat screen CRT (I think, not hi-def but has a hi-def mode). It's not a widescreen TV though.

Can someone tell me how in the world this can play on my TV and look very sharp and then when I put it on my computer and play it at the same bit rate
as it is on the MiniDV tape and play it full screen it does not look good at all? Playing full screen on my laptop this is even bars on the side. But on the TV, the image
takes up the whole screen and it has a sharp picture.

How are you playing the DV-AVI file? I suggest the MPCHC player which self configures DXVA. Quality will depend on your display card. VLC can also be manually configured to do similar.
http://mpc-hc.sourceforge.net/DXVASupport.html

LCD-TV sets have internal deinterlace and scaling hardware to upscale 480i S-Video input. On a PC, this falls to either software or display card hardware.

List your computer details in your profile. Answers to these questions vary by OS, CPU and display card.

[HoosierGuy]

These are the programs I have on my laptop - Handbrake, WinDV, VirtualDub, and Format Factory.

Can I get a simple suggestions on which programs I should use and what settings I should use and what I should aim for so I can
put up decent quality videos on Youtube? I mean should I deinterlace? What target size or bit rate should I aim for? Do I use Handbrake or
VirtualDub or both or neither?

[edDV]

These are the programs I have on my laptop - Handbrake, WinDV, VirtualDub, and Format Factory.

Can I get a simple suggestions on which programs I should use and what settings I should use and what I should aim for so I can
put up decent quality videos on Youtube? I mean should I deinterlace? What target size or bit rate should I aim for? Do I use Handbrake or
VirtualDub or both or neither?

I'd do it this way. From default Handbreak settings, import your DV-AVI file and set picture and filters this way.





Press Start.

[HoosierGuy]

I'll run it through and upload it to youtube and post the link soon.

[edDV]

Thanks for that. I did that and the quality is slightly bad.

Handbreak defaults to Constant Quality 20. You can raise that to 21 or 22 (under Video tab) at the cost of a larger file.

Deinterlace and h.264 compression will lower the quality. Comes with the territory.

[HoosierGuy]

Original file including the audio - 329 MB.

After compressing with handbrake at basic settings with no audio added - 11.6 MB.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1kEKpRh7iN0

[HoosierGuy]

Does adding in audio reduce quality when compressing?

[budwzr]

If you're using Vegas, why don't you just upload to YT from the timeline? Why do you need Handbrake or whatever.

[edDV]

Does adding in audio reduce quality when compressing?

In "constant quality" mode the video bitrate varies to maintain the desired quality. File size will vary with source video detail and motion. Adding audio will just make the file larger.

If you use "target file size" or "average bit rate", then adding audio will be at the expense of video quality.

[HoosierGuy]

If you're using Vegas, why don't you just upload to YT from the timeline? Why do you need Handbrake or whatever.

I just ordered Vegas and it was shipped today! I can't wait to get it. Does it do a good job of helping converting video for uploading to sites and also burning
to DVD? Can it deal with interlace issues?

Still, I want to learn how to use some of the more popular free programs out there.

[HoosierGuy]

I get what I say is passable results using coded Mpeg-4 with a QP set at 8 in the video section of handbrake. It takes a 649 MB file to 77.3 MB.

In reality, is it possible to really compress this footage greatly while maintaining video quality?

How do the people who post great looking video on YouTube do it? Is it the camera and pro video they use?

I will say I do enjoy the original quality of my AVI files from my HandyCam. I just wish I could take that quality, or close that quality, and put it
on YouTube, without taking two hours or more to upload.

[edDV]

As said above, you should send high quality to Youtube because they are just going to compress it again. I don't know their file size limits. Check their site.

Great compression results from camera technique. Hand held is the worst. All the pixels are in motion as the camera shakes. Poor lighting and noise are also killers of compression quality. Pros use tripods or some other camera stabilization technique.

[HoosierGuy]

I got my software! I just watched the 40 minute intro DVD that showed some basic things. I hope to have fun with it and learn to edit well. The person in the video got to the rendering part and said it rendering is a good time to step away and get a drink, or sandwich, or more! lol. He said rendering could take a few minutes, a few hours, or even days!. I didn't know it could take a few days.

I've always been a fan of Amazon.com. I ordered this software Tuesday night and they shipped it Wednesday and I got it Thursday. Nice.