PS3 needs full firmware update to play new BD but removes Linux. Options?

[gll99]

It's the first time I try a new disc that asks for a system update but the system wants to download a new firmware that removes Linux or other 3rd party OS capability. I don't use any other OS right now but might want to try it in the future so I hate taking away that possibility.

The message only says it needs to re-validate the encryption key . Does it really need a full firmware update to do that? Did I miss something or is Sony pulling another fast one on us by tying BD playback functionality to other firmware updates?

[yoda313]

Can it play at all without confirming it?

You only have a few options:

Get another bluray player.

Get another ps3.

Get a bdrom drive for your computer.

Probably the first or the third options are your best bets - or cheapest ones at least unless you score a used ps3 at a decent price to serve as either a otheros only drive or a bluray only drive.

I really don't know if you can play a new disc without updating at all. Here's an idea - try playing it without your ps3 connected to the internet. I don't know if it will make a difference but who knows.

Oh another option assuming you have a bdrom player already:

Rip and convert - with avchd as the most ideal option for optical media at least.

I know the last one is no fun but its an option with a bdrom player at least.

Edit - I do have a ps3 (40gb fat model) but I've done all of the updates. I never tried the other os option so I never missed it. The newest bluray disc I have is the Star Trek reboot movie by JJ Abrahams so I don't know what discs need updates and which don't.

[mrswla]

The optional os has been taken out about 3 firmware upgrades ago! What title are you trying? Like yoda313, I never tried a different os so I don't miss that feature either.

[gll99]

Thanks for the responses

The BD disc will not play at all (internet on or off). It just pops up the message on the console asking for a system update to re-validate the encryption key.

I was hoping that BD encryption key re-certification was separate from a firmware update but it was too much to hope from Sony.

I already own 3 cheap $49 Walmart Canada special Seiki BD660 players on which the BD plays without issue. These no-name units may never be firmware updated so I hope that doesn't become a problem with some future BD discs. That would end my association with the BD format if it happens.

Until recently, the PS3 was my personal use BD and stored video playback baby but I moved all the game units (PS3, XBOX360 with kinect and Wii to the family room after I bought the BD players (none of them are in the family room). The disc is a kids movie called Despicable Me. Fortunately we bought the 3 pack (BD, DVD and the useless DRM Digital copy) since it was only $3 more than the DVD by itself so the kids watched the DVD.

I'm aware of the conversion options. I tried all that when I first got a computer BD reader and it worked real well making DVD5 AVCHD although it took a lot of time to do on my lowly 2Core. If I'm willing to settle for 720p or 1080i, I have another quicker real time option using my new Hauppauge HD PVR through component but I haven't tested that yet.

It's possible that I'll never use linux on the PS3 but who knows. I downloaded a compatible distro a few months ago and never got around to installing it. Life got in the way.

It's a shame that to maintain BD functionality you have to lose something. I don't trust the PS3 / Sony to allow a firmware rollback in case I wanted the 3rd party OS functionality back.

[yoda313]

I have another quicker real time option using the Hauppauge HD PVR I just bought but I haven't tested that yet.

It works just fine. I have done it myself. You will only have an issue with discs that only have dts audio. If its dolby digital you are all set. I don't know if dts blurays have regular stereo tracks also - you'd only be able to get the stereo track with the real time dub on dts blurays. The quality is really good still using the component cables for the ps3 (I had them left over from my ps2 which I don't have anymore).

I don't trust the PS3 / Sony to allow a firmware rollback in case I wanted the 3rd party OS functionality back.

It's just like anything they want you to play in their playground by their rules. Unfortunately for this format that is what you have to work with.

[qutoe="gl99"]The BD disc will not play at all. It just pops up the message on the console asking for a system update to re-validate the encryption key.[/quote]

Does that happen whether or not your lan jack is connected? Or are you using wireless? Try to do it without a net connection and see if it passess.

Your conversion option is the best bet since you can do that with the equipment you have.

[gll99]

yoda313

I sneaked in some edits while you copied the old text (lol)

Yes internet or not it's a no go.

btw) That Hauppauge works really well on HD tv shows

[yoda313]

@gll99 ok.

Yes the hauppauge hdpvr is very good at what it does. As for the ps3 like I said the only drawback is it won't handle dts audio. But on dolby digital tracks it works great and will do stereo tracks of course.

[mrswla]

I don't trust the PS3 / Sony to allow a firmware rollback in case I wanted the 3rd party OS functionality back.

Nope. Once you update to the new firmware you are unable to roll it back!

[yoda313]

I don't trust the PS3 / Sony to allow a firmware rollback in case I wanted the 3rd party OS functionality back.

Nope. Once you update to the new firmware you are unable to roll it back!

WEll you might try a google search on something called infectus. I don't know if it is still viable. I found that on the first page of a google search for ps3 firmware rollback.

Again I don't know if it will work. I also have no idea what ramifications you may face with rollbacks. If it was possible it might invalidate stuff like purchased videos and games. That is just a guess but you never know with Sony.

[gll99]

I guess it's not worth messing up the PS3 to add an OS I would just use to tinker. We have too many gadgets in the house as it is to buy duplicates. I've been handing out spare DVD players to friends and family like I own a surplus warehouse. With all the consoles and accessories already in the family room, I don't really want to have another Blu-ray player added to the mix when the PS3 should be able to do the job

I was really hoping that I had misunderstood the need for an update and that it was only a minor internet check that was needed to restore the BD functions. Since that doesn't seem to be the case I'll give it another day or 2 while I mull things over and then probably update the firmware all the while cursing Sony under my breath.

[Chopmeister]

These sorts of dirty tricks are quite a good reason to avoid Sony altogether.

I have been burnt a few times by Sony (eg Sony P910i requires a headset with a 2.5mm jack to work, no one in this country including Sony seems to sell that). I have also narrowly narrowly missed being burned by them a few more times - eg about to buy a Minidisc recorder 10 years ago for lectures etc incl transfer to computer and playing MP3s, the Sony dealer told me it could do this, but it couldn't as the DRM disabled digital transfers (analog only) and despite the box saying MP3 it required transcoding to ATRAC. Plus, pretty much every DVD player except Sony sold in this country is able to be supplied region free.

When you look at what they did to Lik Sang, the rootkit they put on their CDs, their single-minded obsession with DRM and proprietary solutions/formats, their general contempt for consumers and their customers, and their being behind most of the terrible behavious or the MPAA and RIAA etc the picture isn't pretty. Personally, I regard them as the vermin of the consumer electronics industry.

Coming back on topic, they are doing this because they want to force the firmware update that removes the otherOS feature down your throat, whether you want it or not. It has little to do with Blu Ray encrption security, which is compromised in any event. But by tieing it to Blu Ray playing (and ability to play online games as well), which is what a lot of users want to usetheir PS3s for, they hope to persuade most people to just apply the update.

Since you already have players that will cope with the disc, I would recommend simply using them rather that borking your console with an update that you clearly (from your post) don't want. Might not hurt to send Sony an reasonably blunt email as well, telling them how much this has put you off spending more money on Sony products including the eventual PS4. It's probably futile, but if enough people did it then they might take notice.......

[jagabo]

Note that the PS3 master encryption key was recently discovered. It shouldn't be long before Linux is available once again for the PS3.

[gll99]

@Chopmeister
You make some excellent points. Maybe they think the general population doesn't care but what companies like Sony don't realize is that screwing with guys like us not only affects what we buy but also family and friends looking for technical help and purchase suggestions.

I suppose there is no real rush to update the firmware. It also occurred to me that I could check the firmware to see what version it is and look for a pre- no 3rd party OS firmware to see if d/l and applying that patch might fix the problem.

As far as buying more Sony products that's not likely. The XBOX360 with the Kinect are the biggest draw with everyone here right now. The Wii still comes in a strong second. The PS2 is 3rd. Only one PS3 game has been played recently (LittleBigPlanet but I won't buy LBP2) until we tried to play that Blu-ray movie.

With cheaper Blu-ray players available and more options for streaming and playing divx, AVCHD from disc and usb in sync, the PS3 had lost much of its original luster. Add to that the fact that there is little interest in playing the console games when other kids drop by, it's mostly not even plugged into the power bar. Go figure that children would still choose our PS2 over the PS3 99 times out of a 100. I was hoping it would at least still serve as a decent BD player for the kids movies while keeping any future options open.

@jagabo
Thanks. Good to hear. I'll keep an eye on that.

[yoda313]

I was hoping it would at least still serve as a decent BD player for the kids movies while keeping any future options open.

Well don't forget it does have 3d capabilities for games and movies. Albeit limited to 1080i and you need a 3dtv but it can do it (with the latest firmware mind you).

You mean your not sold on the Playstation Move?

I am not. I have all three consoles and I barely touch the Nintendo Wii. I certainly wouldn't buy new controllers for the ps3 just to do the same thing with improved graphics. I do have the eye camera but thats for video chats with family in another state.

I am intrigued by kinect for my 360. But more from a technological standpoint for menu access and such. The games are lacking for me. I am not interested in dance central (I'm 32 and a guy so that kinda takes me out of the target demographics for the game - though I'm not saying guys don't play it but I'm probably older than those who'd be into it - by the way I never got interested in dance dance revolution either so that probably skewed my interest in it in the first place).

[Chopmeister]

@gll99 - Thanks for that. Sorry if it sounded like a rant, but Sony have really irritated me, to the point that I actively dissuade friends and family from purchasing. You are correct that people look to us folks for advice - so far I figure my advice to others has cost them 3 TV sales, 1 DVD recorder sale, and 1-2 console sales. The sad thing is that I am a former Sony fanboy who used to buy a lot of their equipment - HiFi gear, top-line Trinitron TVs, and (this dates me!) betamax VCRs and the original walkman.

The experience that surprised me most, and when I started to sour on them, was when DVD players were fairly new in the mainstream market - costing circa $1500 in this country. I walked into a Sony dealership on Willis Street where I had spent literally thousands previously with two (original & bona fide purchased legitimatley) Region 2 DVDs I had acquired from the UK. I asked for the price of a player that would play them. When they realised that they were Region 2 disks not Region 4 ones, they got the manager - who called me a pirate and threw me out of the shop.

None of the coverage I have seen on Sony since has been that favourable, and my opinion of them has only got worse, and they haven't seen a dime of my money since.

[yoda313]

None of the coverage I have seen on Sony since has been that favourable, and my opinion of them has only got worse, and they haven't seen a dime of my money since.

Not to turn this into a Sony thread but you do realize they own a majority of the movie studios and that is why Bluray beat out Hd-dvd don't you? That means to be a total Sony boycotter you'd have to quit going to watch movies almost entirely except for independents and some other studios (and I just mean the Hollywood movies - obviously Sony doesn't own every movie studio in the world but you get what I mean).

I assume you mean you are boycotting their hardware not the movies entirely.

[jagabo]

I too have stopped buying and recommending Sony products as they've become more obsessed with content protection and less user friendly. It's ironic that the company that was once the (inadvertent) champion of Free Use has completely revered direction to become its biggest foe.

[Phlexor]

Let me get this straight. You won't update the firmware so you can play a bluray disc you have, something that you want to actually do right now. All because you might want to use the OtherOS feature to install a Linux distro one day.

Has anybody mentioned that linux sucks hard on the PS3? You'd be better off playing with it on a real computer that doesn't cripple the video performance like the PS3 does.

Am I getting this right?

[jman98]

gil99 - Would you mind to share with us the name of this disc? Others may benefit from knowing about it and others in your situation could at least avoid buying it.

[mrswla]

The disc is a kids movie called Despicable Me. Fortunately we bought the 3 pack (BD, DVD and the useless DRM Digital copy) since it was only $3 more than the DVD by itself so the kids watched the DVD.

He did mention it before. I also have this movie but don't remember any update needed, but that may be because I already updated the firmware awhile ago.

[jagabo]

but that may be because I already updated the firmware awhile ago.

If you use the PlayStation Network you got that update (v3.21) long ago.
http://news.cnet.com/8301-13506_3-10471356-17.html
And only older models had the Linux option. The PS3 Slim never had the option.

[gll99]

I bought the PS3 about 6 months before the slim came out and paid $100 extra for the 170gb hdd upgrade. The 250gb slim would have been cheaper a few months later but who knew? I've never really looked back or compared the features of the 2 models other than the fact the slim is supposed to be lighter and a better energy saver.

Although I bought the PS3 that came with a 3 game bundle. We bought 7-8 more games since, plus added 2 extra controllers, a racing wheel and a remote but gaming was never at the top of personal list of requirements. I saw that more as a bonus. At the time, I wanted a Blu-ray player with divx, and possibly streaming capabilities which the PS3 provided. Stand alone BR players were still around $250can + then. Buying the PS3 with the added features was a good idea. Now, except for gaming, many new BD players can do as much for 1/4 the price I paid. The cheap BR players I bought don't have DNLA streaming but they have a (no 4gb limit NTFS) or fat32 usb port, play simple menu AVCHD on dvdr dvdrw5 (didn't test dvd9 yet) or on usb stick or hdd, play divx in sync, play m2ts (192 byte packet format) HD videos and heck I only paid $49 a pop for them.

I can't recall the specific model name of the PS3 but it's the version that can't play ps2 games (another reason for many to rant against Sony). The current software version on my unit is 2.52.
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As far as saying I won't likely be buying any Sony hardware products it's because there is just no compelling reason. Their gaming console is the only thing I see that's unique but for me BD playback was the main thing that set it apart. Unless you are a gamer and that a particular title is limited to the PS3 what's the advantage? IMO the XBOX360 because of the no hand held controller Kinect and its future incarnations has made it the console to own. I don't see anything Sony has in their product lineup that can't be had elsewhere better or cheaper. It's not a knock on them for me it's just a reality. Every time they remove a feature they just alienate another potential customer. They could have swayed old PS2 customers with existing games to buy the PS3. To sell a few replacement PS2 they lost how many unknown PS3 sales to people who probably bought another ps2 but then went out and bought an XBox360 or Wii with the extra cash. Once they have the console most people will probably start buying the games. Look at me in addition to the initial 3, I bought 7-8 more PS3 titles and don't hardly play.

As far as movies: If the movie is a personal collector favorite of mine (e.g. Star Trek) or has outdoor widescreen blockbuster scale, is to our taste and the price is right we'll buy the Blu-ray no matter who makes it. If it's a minor film mostly shot indoors, then DVD is good enough otherwise we wait for it to play on cable. I'm paying enough for all those specialty and movie channels. We don't care about the producer/ distributor if it's a title we like. I definitely don't go around saying "that's a Sony film so I'm not buying it". However, because of their past practices and failing reputation as being consumer friendly, given 2 similar hardware products I would likely choose the other brand unless price and/or features were highly to my benefit.

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The Whole Truth:
I'll confess that the children pooled their money to buy the Blu-ray / DVD combo pack in question. It didn't come out of my pocket.
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[Chopmeister]

I'm not being obsessive about a concerted boycott. I will still buy/watch a film if I really want it (although I don't go to thr movies often, and record enough films off cable that I buy relatively few). It's just that they don't really have any product that is a "must have" or a compelling value proposition for me, and if I want hardware I remember how they treat their customers and opt for another manufacturer. It's kinda like going out for dinner, I would just walk past a restaraunt that gave me food poisoning twice before, and eat somewhere else, as well as discouraging friends from eating there.