New to tbc - need advice on optimizing Panasonic svhs ag1970 w/tbc

[yoda313]

Hi,

I just picked up a used svhs pro deck by panasonic yesterday for get this - 7.00usd! It was at a goodwill store. And it works!

The model is ag1970 pro line (svhs). It says it has super 4 head tbc.

From what I can tell it seems play perfectly. I did not get a remote with it but the front panel has just about every control I could need (plus I do have a logitech harmony remote should I need access to a special menu.

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What do I need to know about tbc to optimize vhs dubbing?

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I plan on using it do backup commercial tapes I have and off the air tapes I have.

Regarding the commercial tapes:

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I still get a copyright block message on my settop dvd recorder even with the tbc turned on - what am I doing wrong? (its a commercial tape I'm trying to backup - yes I own the tape).

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Also I do see it has tracking lock which I am going to love. I have several older slp tapes that lose tracking and this would be wonderful to aid the dubbing on those troublesome tapes. But what kind of realistic expectations should I have? None of my tapes are absolutely horrible that I can tell (to my perception) so I guess my gains will be minimal.

I do love the fact that on the top of the unit it says FOR COMMERCIAL USE ONLY Also I am surprised it has two audio out ports on the back. But most important of all is the svideo out (it also has svideo in).

Thanks for tips on how to best use a svhs player with tbc. I had assumed from reading many threads on the subject that the tbc would eliminate the copy protection message. THis is not a deal breaker since it is so cheap and I can still dub to my computer without a problem. But this would make it easier for bulk dubbing since I'd get an immediately usable dvd in the end without authoring or any hassling after dubbing.

Thanks again.

Edit - I did some more dubs this afternoon.

I WAS ABLE TO DUB COMMERCIAL TAPES!

I'm not sure what I did differently. I also haven't done several to be sure. I didn't change any settings that I know of. But I was able to dub a full length commercial video to my panasonic dvd recorder. The output looked and sounded great.

I'm still interested in learning more about the tbc features that this unit has. I was able to find a manual online for the 1980 model. I'm not sure about the differences though.

Thanks.

[bendixG15]

Took you a long time, but you got one
Good Luck with it.........

(I was seaching for a manual for you and came across this ..https://forum.videohelp.com/threads/193619-TBC-buying-guide)

[yoda313]

Took you a long time, but you got one
Good Luck with it.........

Thanks. I probably would have gotten one sooner. However the thought of paying upwards of 50.00 or more just on shipping alone for a tank of a vcr just stopped me dead in the water.

(I was seaching for a manual for you and came across this ..https://forum.videohelp.com/threads/1...C-buying-guide)

Thanks. It is funny that was 3 years ago

I'll have to review it more in depth later.

I can't tell for sure but I think it said the ag1970 was a full frame tbc. That is the best you can get built in right?

I'll like to test it more later.

[BrainStorm69]

I believe that the AG-1970 has a full-field TBC, not a full-frame TBC. AFAIK, it doesn't defeat macrovision. You need a stand alone TBC or something like a SIMA CopyThis! unit to defeat macrovision. It could be for whatever reason that the commercial tape(s) you were able to copy were not macrovision protected (some companies didn't want to pay macrovision's royalty). I'd try some more commercial tapes before assuming that it will work for all commercial tapes.

[vhelp]

yoda, there are different kinds of mv. In your vcr make/model, the built-in tbc could be letting some in and some out, depending on the type of mv on the tapes.

worse case sceneario, some tapes may show "curling" at the top, even slightly. but you can spot those after you have finished capturing the tape you can review the .avi in a timeline like virtualdubs.

oh, but you said you used your dvd recorder, then you won't see it as easily.

but, you can still review it later if you open the disc mpeg file in virtualDUB-MPEG2 directly.

resources

capturing:
VHS to DVD conversion - Am I expecting too much?

restoration:
VCR buying guide (S-VHS / D-VHS / Professional)
How to address anti-copy (Macrovision) errors
TBC buying guide?????

tip 1: search (ctrl+f) for "ag-1970" or "ag1970"
tip 2: google search for "videohelp" and "ag1970" or "ag-1970"

-vhelp 5458

[orsetto]

The AG1970 is probably the sturdiest VCR Panasonic ever made, better built than the later AG1980. Unfortunately it is not quite as versatile as the AG1980: the 1970 has many nice features and can make a good dubbing deck, but it lacks the luma and chroma noise reduction of the 1980. The 1970 has very adjustable tracking and a wide-range picture sharpness slider (much more range than the one in the 1980). The Noise Filter Off>On>Edit switch provides more range and more interaction with the Sharpness control than the same controls on the 1980 (for example, some tapes benefit greatly from the TBC being On but the noise filters totally Off: you can do this with a 1970 but not a 1980, whose filters are always on and non-defeatable). The weak 1970 TBC is not always as useful as the more aggressive TBC/DNR in the later 1980, or later JVC and Mitsubishi models. For most tapes, the 1970 TBC doesn't offer improvement and in many cases can add unwanted image changes. But the 1970 TBC excels at fixing a couple of very specific problems, such as overexposed camcorder tapes with tearing verticals (its better at fixing this problem than an AG1980 or even a separate DataVideo TBC).

I use both a 1970 and a 1980, along with JVC 9911 and a Mitsubishi DVHS. When a tape is very good quality to begin with, such as a commercial tape, the 1970 has a definite edge in providing more detail and more realism at the expense of somewhat more noise in the picture (its noise filter is very mild). With problem tapes, sometimes the 1970 is better and sometimes worse than other choices. I have a lot of second-generation dubbed tapes, of these 50% play noticeably better on the 1970 while 50% need the beefed-up TBC/DNR of the 1980 or JVC/Mitsu. With many tapes, I can't decide which presentation I like most: the noisier but more "real" 1970, or the smooth noiseless but "faker" processed results from the 1980 or JVC/Mitsu. For those tapes I do the digital dub twice, so I can have both versions. You never know which will look better on the next display technology...

The built-in TBC of the 1970 or any other VCR does nothing to defeat MV on commercial tapes, if you succeeded with some it was because they had no MV or your DVD recorder/PC encoder did not detect it. The remote that came with the 1970 and 1980 was prehistoric: just the main transport functions. Any Panasonic VCR remote made in the last 20 years will operate it, you can pick these up for $5 on eBay. The only part in the 1970 that really tends to go bad is the front panel clock/counter display: if yours is still bright, it has probably been corrected during a service trip. If yours is very dim, it may become almost unreadable after some use. You can remedy this by buying the optional AG-A95 or AG-A96 wired remote edit controller: this duplicates all the front panel transport buttons and adds a huge LCD tape counter display that's much more durable and readable than the front panel of the VCR. These wired remotes cost $20-40 used on eBay or $99 new at photo/video dealers like B&H.

Anyway congrats on the excellent bargain! A good working 1970 for anywhere under S50 is a good deal, $7 is a total steal. You'll get lots of good use from an AG1970: solid VCR.

[yoda313]

Thanks brainstorm, vhelp, and orsetto.

Wow thanks for the disertation orsetto (sorry about the spelling )

I will test more tapes this weekend regarding mv. Worse comes to worse I'll just go back to dubbing to the computer again. This does seem to be quite a bit better at tape presentation then the much newer panasonic vhs-dvd combo that I was using.

As far as I can tell the display on the unit is very vibrant and not at all dim. So if that means it was previously serviced I'm all set with that if it means its likely to have a nice extended life now.

@orsetto - so basically there is no 100% sure way to know if I should leave the tbc and noise filter on or one or the other? Is that mostly trial and error and personal preference then?

Thanks for the confirmation on the quality of the unit.

[orsetto]

@orsetto - so basically there is no 100% sure way to know if I should leave the tbc and noise filter on or one or the other? Is that mostly trial and error and personal preference then?

In some ways the AG1970 is easier to deal with than the AG1980. The 1980 has a better TBC and noise filter system, but the noise filter cannot be turned all the way off and is very aggressive even at the lowest setting (this can lead to that "Madame Tusseaud's" look on peoples faces). The earlier AG 1970 circuits are less aggressive, and both its TBC and DNR can be turned entirely off if necessary. I find I rarely need to turn off the 1970 noise filter: I generally leave the switch set to ON and the picture slider in the middle or slightly higher if the tape is clean enough to benefit from a detail boost. The TBC is trickier: I have to play with this for every tape. But I have varying tape qualities in my collection, many of them are 2nd generation dupes made with various color and detail enhancers. Enhancers seemed like a good idea in 1986, but today those tapes are hell to digitize because the enhancers screw with the bedrock signals. Sometimes the TBC helps these tapes, but sometimes its like mixing baking soda and vinegar: blecch!

If most of your tapes are commercial, or recorded directly off air (first generation), you can probably leave the TBC on unless you notice the image looks odd in some way. The 1970 TBC is most helpful with camcorder tapes, its less effective with other recordings but you'll have to test a few of your own to determine what's best for you. The 1970 performs pretty consistently across a wide variety of tapes once you hit on a group of settings you like overall. Run tests with three or four of your most important tapes, and just leave those settings in place. You should only need to change them for the occasional "weird" tape.

[yoda313]

If most of your tapes are commercial, or recorded directly off air (first generation), you can probably leave the TBC on unless you notice the image looks odd in some way

That is the case. The tapes I have left are commercial and first gen. Very few are dubs and those I believe I have other versions of in other formats.

I think I will take your advice and leave tbc on for this situation.

I find I rarely need to turn off the 1970 noise filter: I generally leave the switch set to ON and the picture slider in the middle or slightly higher if the tape is clean enough to benefit from a detail boost.

Thanks I will do that.

I do appreciate your insights. Thats what I love about this forum. There are enough active users here that somebody probably has experience in your issue or has at least heard of the issue.

Thanks again everyone. I do plan on doing more dubs with it this weekend.