Freeware To Edit .mts Files From Camcorder

[JohnnyGalaga]

This is on a Canon Vixia HF21 camcorder. It produces high definition files that end with the .mts file extension. Does anyone know of any good freeware to edit these files (cutting, trimming, fades, wipes, text boxes, stitching multiple files, etc.) without having to convert them to a different format first like .avi, .wmv, etc.?

Thanks!

[edDV]

No freeware other than I frame cuts (0.5 sec accuracy).

Your hardware is adequate for payware. Suggest the Vegas MS Platinum 10 demo minimum.

[Bonie81]

as said by edDV SONY Vegas gonna handle .m2ts or .mts way better than AP.

[JohnnyGalaga]

I searched for "I frame cuts" online and can't seem to find it. Would you happen to have a link? And does that .5 second accuracy mean you can only edit in .5 second increments, or does it mean the audio will be a half-second out of sync.

That Sony Vegas costs like $600!!!

Thanks.

[edDV]

Google "m2ts cutter"

I haven't tried these so have no opinion.

Vegas Movie Studio Platinum 10 runs $79+ if you shop. I got one on a special competitive rebate deal for about $35 (after rebate). Make sure you get Platinum level for AVCHD.

[JohnnyGalaga]

Well I tried searching for "m2ts cutter" and never actually could find it. All I get are these annoying download websites that are just a search engine within a search engine that points you to shareware or payware.

So is that it? There's not actually any freeware out there to take the .mts files from your camcorder and cut and join 'em?

[edDV]

Most AVS camcorders come with a custom version of Arcsoft or similar that does limited editing but not always a lossless cut. Most normal people want a simple downres to DVD so that is what they get.

[fritzi93]

TSSniper is the only freeware that does a decent job of cutting ts/mts, but only on I frames. With a little practice you can do a fair job of it. Try it and see if it's good enough for your purposes. As for the rest of the items on your wish-list, it ain't happening with freeware.

[EDIT] ArcSoft's TME is good overall, the Blu-Ray player is first-class, the capture module is good, AVCHD authoring is okay, format converter is okay, but the editing function is atrociously bad.

[JohnnyGalaga]

Well, I appreciate everyone's replies and it's surprising how certain things don't seem to have freeware like a blue ray player program for your computer. It makes me wonder if it's because of corporations patenting things and suing people.

[JohnnyGalaga]

I went ahead and tried the trial version of Vegas Movie Studio Platinum 10 from he Sony website, and there are several problems which are going to make this program a fail:

1. You can import an .mts video file just fine, but when you try to save your project after editing, there's no way to simply leave it as an .mts file. It makes you choose a different format to save it to such as .avi or wmv. It appears as though it's not possible to do the simple act of opening an .mts file, editing it, and saving it as an .mts.

2. When you save your movie project to one of the other formats, the settings default to something different than the original .mts file. My .mts clips are 1920 x 1080 60i, but the software will try to save it with a frame rate of something weird like 29.97, and at a lower resolution.

3. On 2 attempts, my resulting .avi file came out extremely bumpy and jittery. When I triede saving it as a .wmv, there was a noticeable loss of video quality.

4. The software completely froze up 2-3 times while working on a project. Upon restarting the software I was able recover my work, however.

5. One file I started out with was a 32 Mb 11-second .mts clip. I imported it into the software, did no editing whatsoever, and simply saved it as a an .avi. My 11-second .avi file was 1.33 Gb!

[JohnnyGalaga]

And I'm confused about the names that are used to describe camcorder files. Some websites simply call them "AVCHD" and other websites call them "H.264" whatever that means. Many of these webpages make no mention of the specific file extension .mts. Sometimes you'll read about something called .mt2s files, but it seems like nothing online truly explains what's the difference between "AVCHD," "H.264," .mts, and .mt2s files.

[poisondeathray]

And I'm confused about the names that are used to describe camcorder files. Some websites simply call them "AVCHD" and other websites call them "H.264" whatever that means. Many of these webpages make no mention of the specific file extension .mts. Sometimes you'll read about something called .mt2s files, but it seems like nothing online truly explains what's the difference between "AVCHD," "H.264," .mts, and .mt2s files.

It has been explained extensively in this forum and google, wikipedia

In simple terms, AVCHD is a specific subset of h.264 . It has restrictions and is a standardized format so it works interoperably with various consumer products
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/AVCHD


h.264 and AVC are synonmous terms for mpeg4 part-10 which is a compression standard. It is a very broad standard and encompasses many profiles and features
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/H.264


.mts , .m2ts are both transport streams. Think of it as a container format (or a "box") that can hold audio, video, accessory streams like subtitles, timing information. The difference between them is .m2ts is organized in 192byte packets, .mts is organzied in 188byte packets. The 4byte difference is for timecode information
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Transport_stream

5. One file I started out with was a 32 Mb 11-second .mts clip. I imported it into the software, did no editing whatsoever, and simply saved it as a an .avi. My 11-second .avi file was 1.33 Gb!

I don't use the studio version - so I don't know about your other issues - but this problem is from selecting no compression. ie. Uncompressed video. That's why the filesize is huge

[edDV]

Sony Vegas Platinum 10 works fine once you learn how to use it and learn more about HD codecs and containers.

Transport stream containers are hardened and packetized for broadcast or linear media recording. M2ts is optimized for random access (e.g flash media) and is required for the BluRay "AVCHD" format.

[edDV]

Here is how you export AVCHD m2ts from Vegas Movie Studio Platinum 10

[JohnnyGalaga]

But my files are .mts rather than .mt2s. And see where it tays Video 29.97 fps? That's what's screwing me up. Shouldn't it be 60 fps?

Sony Vegas Platinum 10 works fine once you learn how to use it and learn more about HD codecs and containers.

It seems like there's a couple different programs that have the words "Sony" and "Vegas" in them. Is it possible to edit .mts files but still save them as the original .mts file type without it making you have to convert to something else and without it changing the frame rate and resolution?

[edDV]

But my files are .mts rather than .mt2s.

Sony Vegas Platinum 10 works fine once you learn how to use it and learn more about HD codecs and containers.

It seems like there's a couple different programs that have the words "Sony" and "Vegas" in them. Is it possible to edit .mts files but still save them as the original .mts file type without it making you have to convert to something else and without it changing the frame rate and resolution?

See above. We posted at the same time.

You need Platinum or Pro to edit AVCHD.

Camera AVCHD is acutually in an m2ts container but is using FAT32 8.3 file names. Blu-Ray on the other hand requires the full four digit m2ts extension. So AVCHD file.mts and file.m2ts are the same thing.

[JohnnyGalaga]

Hokay, so back to square one. "Vegas Movie Studio HD 9" will actually not work. The name of the software program that is needed is either called "Vegas Pro 10" ($599.95 per the Sony website) or "Vegas Movie Studio HD Platinum 10" ($94.95 per the Sony website).

And the best we can do with .mts files after editing them is to save them as ".mt2s"?

[edDV]

Hokay, so back to square one. "Vegas Movie Studio HD 9" will actually not work. The name of the software program that is needed is either called "Vegas Pro 10" ($599.95 per the Sony website) or "Vegas Movie Studio HD Platinum 10" ($94.95 per the Sony website).

And the best we can do with .mts files after editing them is to save them as ".mt2s"?

I'm not sure about "HD 9" but I think it was limited to HDV in/out and AVCHD import only.

What do you want to do with an "MTS" extension? You can't export it back to camcorder flash ram without writing all the metadata.

You can rename the extention to mts if you must. It won't change the fact that the container is MPeg2 m2ts.

Most media players don't look at the file extension, the container and codec info is read from the file header.

[JohnnyGalaga]

What do you want to do with an "MTS" extension?

Well, I thought that to avoid converting it, it's supposed to come out with the same file extension. If the file extension gets changed to something else, such as .avi or .mpg, then that means it's being converted and you're losing some video quality. But you're saying .mts and .mt2s will have exactly the same quality with no loss? So if I import an .mts into the program and it gives me an .mt2s, then there's no loss in quality?

[edDV]

What do you want to do with an "MTS" extension?

Well, I thought that to avoid converting it, it's supposed to come out with the same file extension. If the file extension gets changed to something else, such as .avi or .mpg, then that means it's being converted and you're losing some video quality. But you're saying .mts and .mt2s will have exactly the same quality with no loss? So if I import an .mts into the program and it gives me an .mt2s, then there's no loss in quality?

Sorta. What comes out is the same format (codec and wrapper) as what goes in but all h.264 NLE editors currently need to re-encode all frames in to out so there is a generation of recode loss. That is unless you use an I frame cutter.

Other HD formats such as TS/HDV/XDCAM (MPeg2) allow so called "smart rendering" where only frames that are inside the GOP, filtered or processed in some way get re-encoded. Unprocessed GOPs are copied in to out for no loss. For example, if you were to do simple cut edits of HDV, only the frames inside the cut GOP get re-encoded to the export file. Import that to Blu-Ray and most frames are identical to the original frames on the camcorder tape (i.e no generation loss).

So for AVCHD, you currently get a generation hit when using an NLE.


Note: "Smart Render" only works when the project and export video settings exactly match the import video format. Vegas allows you to change the audio settings (e.g. levels or other filters can be used on audio while video is smart rendered).

[JohnnyGalaga]

So many abbreviations. Thanks for the help. But I don't know what GOP or HDV is, as well as other words like "codec" or "wrapper". It's a shame that camcorder makers couldn't simplify all this for consumers.

Okay, so FINAL CONCLUSIONS:

- There is no freeware to edit .mts files PROPERLY, without stupid buggy quirky problems.
- "Sony Vegas Pro 10" or "Vegas Movie Studio HD Platinum 10" are the two programs that are best at editing .mts files from a camcorder.
- Even software that you have to pay for that can PROPERLY edit .mts still spits out something that will have at least a little bit of quality loss and a different file extension, IF such software is known as what is called an "NLE" - a Non-Linear Editor.

And, here are links to other related threads about this whole .mts file MESS:

Using ASUS ENGTX460 DirectCU Graphics Card To Convert .mts Files?

What Is The Bost Most Lossless Format To Convert .mts Files To?

Why Is Playing Back .mts Files From A Camcorder On HDTV Better Than A PC?

These are being included to help people in the future who might search for and find this thread.

[JohnnyGalaga]

Oh yeah, one last question if I may. Is there a way to make Vegas Movie Studio Platinum 10 save it at the original 60i fps rather than the 29.97 fps as shown in the image above?

Thanks.

[poisondeathray]

60i is the same thing as 29.97fps when describing interlaced content

60i is 60 fields per second , 29.97 is expressed in frames per second

Some people call 60i , as 30i . These mean the same thing too

I know it's confusing, especially if you are new to video.... Some marketing folks one day decided to call 30i , as 60i because it sounds bigger

[pippas]

Okay, so FINAL CONCLUSIONS:
- There is no freeware to edit .mts files PROPERLY, without stupid buggy quirky problems.

AVCHD .mts files (or .m2ts files) are highly compressed, and do not lend themselves to be edited 'properly' as you describe it.
To be able to edit video files, accurately, they ideally need to be converted to 'intraframe' formats - i.e. formats that allow you to edit down to individual frame accuracy.

With AVCHD this will require conversion to an intermediate format.

Cineform Neo is one such format, but is decidedly not freeware!

Canopus HQ is another, and this can be edited using the freeware editor, Virtualdub.

It will however require two additional programs to allow you to convert your .mts files into Canopus HQ, to start the process.

The official freeware Canopus AVCHD2HQ conversion utility can be found here: http://www.thomson-canopus.jp/download/avchd_converter_ev.htm .

However, that utility will only work with the Canopus HQ codec, and there is some discussion on the web as to whether that is supposed to be freeware or not.

It is certainly simple enough to find a freeware copy - see here for example: http://depositfiles.com/en/files/d5f9rcz7x -
but whether that is a genuine freeware codec, you'll have to decide for yourself.
It certainly doesn't involve any special 'download' registration membership, for example.....

Once your files are in Canopus HQ format, they are as easy as DV to edit - that is, down to frame accuracy.
They are of course a bit large - converting a highly compressed format like AVCHD, into a useful editable form, tends to produce large 'working' files, but they are easy to edit. and they are of course only interim 'working' files.
Once edited, you can export to one of many 'final' export formats, from Virtualdub.

So, no, there are currently no freeware editors that will let you work with .mts files accurately, in their original 'compressed' form, but, yes, you can convert to an editable format with 'freeware' utilites.

Not quite the same thing, but probably as close as you'll get!!