Seeking Rec for convert tool, w/ some editing, need not be freeware

[davbol]

Hi all, forum newbie here,

Having tried numerous free/shareware out there, and having grown tired of the duct tape and sometimes wacky interfaces, I'm looking for something a bit more "professional", and would appreciate recommendations.

My needs are pretty simple I think:
- convert to/from a few common formats (AVI,MPG1/2/4,MOV,FLV)
- be able to append multiple small clips together
- be able to specify crop points on individual clips
- keep the freaking audio in perfect sync with the freaking video!
- install cleanly without hosing my system, codecs, other a/v software

Mainly I'm just putting together short clips of kids from various still cameras (each of which seems to have it's own unique troublesome variant of a "standard" format), then converting to various formats for various devices, and occassionally merging/converting some youtube type stuff, etc.

So I don't think I have need for "full-blown editing" software like Premiere or Vegas, but would like something as reliable as such a commercial package. I'd be willing to pay in the <$40 range, depending on features.

(I'd rather shell out in the $100 range for full-blown editing if nothing less is likely to be as solid, rather than spend $40 on half a solution or just-barely reliable, so I'd take those type recomendations too)

Of the tools I've tried so far, I've had relatively good luck with the trial of Moyea Video Converter. Any comments on that product, or a product you'd choose instead of it if you were shopping in roughly the same niche?

Sorry for the somewhat vague question, it's tough "shopping" for this stuff, thanks in advance for any advice.

[budwzr]

The only way you can "mix and match" is with an NLE like Vegas. Just buy the cheapest version. They have some 5 in 1 product now too that you might like, does photos and stuff like that too. Geared toward the dabbler/Neophyte.

http://www.sonycreativesoftware.com/moviestudiohd

It's $45, $5 over your limit, but it's a good product. There's a free trial.

[davbol]

Thanks for the advice, will check into it.

[hech54]

Thanks for the advice, will check into it.

1) That Sony software is NOT going to open all of your files.
2) Your expectations are VERY high....especially the sync issue.

[davbol]

Thanks for the input.

2) Your expectations are VERY high....especially the sync issue.

I guess I just find it incredible that a/v sync isn't one of the PRIMARY measures of whether a piece of conversion software "works". I mean, if the input material is in sync, and the output isn't, who would accept that the conversion was "successful"?

At any rate, does it make my request simpler if I focus JUST on the conversion task? Let's say all I want to do is convert all these formats to some well-supported common denominator, say mpeg2, for example.

(i'd then deal with any editing operations trim/join/etc as a second step, the assumption being that it'll be far easier to find appropriate tools given "standardized" input material)

So what's the current thinking (among those here in this forum more in-the-know than myself) on the best "all-in-one" converter? (or at least, a "many-common-to-one-VERY-common" format converter)

Are ffmpeg/mencoder truly the best to be had? Or is there a commercial converter that's worth it's price, at the consumer level? (that is, short of professional/broadcast quality products and corresponding >$$$)

Thanks again for your time
(and apologies if I'm polluting your forum with what may be newbie ?'s)

[filmboss80]

I guess I just find it incredible that a/v sync isn't one of the PRIMARY measures of whether a piece of conversion software "works". I mean, if the input material is in sync, and the output isn't, who would accept that the conversion was "successful"?

There is often a tendency to generically think of all video files (despite the different formats) as being structurally similar. However, that is an erroneous viewpoint. Some formats were created for production editing and effects (and these will produce files that are huge in size), while others will be compressed to a more manageable distribution size for playback only (like DVD), and still others will be heavily compressed so that they can be streamed on the internet without hogging a lot of bandwidth. The more you compress, the more you remove information. A streaming file may be fine for viewing on your PC, but it will not contain the information needed for frame-accurate editing. Loss of audio sync is also very common when the audio portion of a file has variable bitrate (VBR) encoding. Compression also opens the doors to errors that can be magnified when trying to convert to another format.

At any rate, does it make my request simpler if I focus JUST on the conversion task? Let's say all I want to do is convert all these formats to some well-supported common denominator, say mpeg2, for example.

(i'd then deal with any editing operations trim/join/etc as a second step, the assumption being that it'll be far easier to find appropriate tools given "standardized" input material)

Yes, you can--and should--convert everything to an intermediate format for editing; but not mpeg2. If you want to make frame-accurate edits, you need to have a video format that dedicates a new set of bits to each individual frame. Mpeg-2 and other compressed formats use Groups of Pictures (GOPs), and unless you make your edit point right on an I-frame, you can get as much as a half-second off (even longer for xvid, flv, etc.). For editing, you should think of first converting to a "lossless" .avi format like HuffYuv. If the video files are too big, you have the option of compressing to DV .avi with the Cedocida codec. DV .avi files will still allow frame-accurate edits, but compression will reduce quality somewhat (though not as bad as mpeg-2, xvid, etc.). Not all .avi files are the same. You cannot do frame-accurate edits with MPEG-4 based .avi files like Divx / Xvid.

By the same token, all audio streams should be converted to 48000 Hz, 16-bit stereo .wav files before importing into your editing software.

So what's the current thinking (among those here in this forum more in-the-know than myself) on the best "all-in-one" converter? (or at least, a "many-common-to-one-VERY-common" format converter)

No such converter, as there is no such thing as one common video format (see my first paragraph). However, VirtualDub, with all the necessary plugins for .mpg, flv, etc., is a handy tool for converting various video files to good intermediate .avi format (like HuffYuv with .wav audio stream).

You would drop your converted .avi files into Premiere or Vegas for editing, then use those editors to export your edit timeline to a variety of formats for distribution.

There is a learning curve involved, and a lot of trial and error is necessary. The question is, do you have the patience?

[davbol]

Awesome, thanks for the thorough/thoughtful reply, much appreciated.

There is a learning curve involved, and a lot of trial and error is necessary. The question is, do you have the patience?

Sure, within reason. (then i guess i'd just give up beyond that)

Your reply opened my eyes to some alternative workflows that already seem far more promising than any I had found yet, particularly with regard to what type of intermediate format to use - that does seem to be key.

It seems that ffmpeg does a good job to dv, and then from that to other formats, while maintaining sync - yeah! (whereas going directly from the source file to that same other format was very likely to lose sync)

Oddly, it doesn't seem to work with huffyuv (or even raw) into an avi container, maybe that path works better with vdub than ffmpeg. (?) Or perhaps it's the "strictness" of dv that forces some corrective processing not otherwise performed? Who knows.

No matter, if I can find just one path that works all the way through..
..on to more experimenting, thanks again.