Interlace or Bitrate ??

[garylanders]

Hi!

I've had alot of problem with Premiere and Encore. Menubuttons not working, Encore crashing, Premiere not wanting to export footage to Encore and so forth...

When I finally got everything to work i burned my project as a movie on a DL+ DvD 8,5 GB disc.
I let Encore fit the movie to the disc and this was around 3h, 15 min with 5 menus.

The first couple of chapters where fine but when I switched to a chapter with more motion (a tennismatch) the picture became all blurry and flickery. I thought that this was caused by the lack of deinterlacing but Im starting to wonder if its really a bitrate-problem? Trying to squeeze in to much film on one single disc.
From what I first thought, there shouldnt really be an issue with interlacing on a tv-screen/dvd-player and why would only some chapters on the film be affected?

The original film is from a VHS-camcorder.



What do you guys think? And what should I do to get the best result? =)

//GL

[hech54]

You have a bigger problem with cross-posting.

[intracube]

When I finally got everything to work i burned my project as a movie on a DL+ DvD 8,5 GB disc.
I let Encore fit the movie to the disc and this was around 3h, 15 min with 5 menus.

The first couple of chapters where fine but when I switched to a chapter with more motion (a tennismatch) the picture became all blurry and flickery. I thought that this was caused by the lack of deinterlacing but Im starting to wonder if its really a bitrate-problem?

The bitrate should be ok - it's roughly 6Mbit/sec.

Can you describe the picture problems in more detail? If you can see blocks during movement or a lack of detail or texture, it could be a bitrate issue - VHS is often quite noisy which can make greater demands on the compression system compared to a clean, noise free source.

It might also be a field order problem. If this is wrong the picture will appear to judder, stutter, flicker when there's any movement in the video.

If you can upload a short section of the tennis (5-10 seconds) which shows the problem, it would make it easier to identify the problem.

Also, avoid cross posting - it makes replying to posts messy.

[jagabo]

when I switched to a chapter with more motion (a tennismatch) the picture became all blurry and flickery.

That may be a field order problem -- fields being displayed in the wrong order. But it's impossible to say without more information. I suggest you use DgIndex or Mpg2Cut2 to trim out a small section that shows the problem then upload the clip here.

[garylanders]

When I finally got everything to work i burned my project as a movie on a DL+ DvD 8,5 GB disc.
I let Encore fit the movie to the disc and this was around 3h, 15 min with 5 menus.

The first couple of chapters where fine but when I switched to a chapter with more motion (a tennismatch) the picture became all blurry and flickery. I thought that this was caused by the lack of deinterlacing but Im starting to wonder if its really a bitrate-problem?

The bitrate should be ok - it's roughly 6Mbit/sec.

Can you describe the picture problems in more detail? If you can see blocks during movement or a lack of detail or texture, it could be a bitrate issue - VHS is often quite noisy which can make greater demands on the compression system compared to a clean, noise free source.

It might also be a field order problem. If this is wrong the picture will appear to judder, stutter, flicker when there's any movement in the video.

If you can upload a short section of the tennis (5-10 seconds) which shows the problem, it would make it easier to identify the problem.

Also, avoid cross posting - it makes replying to posts messy.

The picture judders, stutters, flickers so much that I get a headache. So Im assuming that this problem is related to field order. I will try to export the video in Premiere, reversing the fieldorder to "Upper fields first"?

I could upload a clip but the problem doesnt really show unless I play it on a regular dvd-player. On my PC the footage looks better.

And there will be no more cross-posting. I blame my parents computer.

//A

[jagabo]

The picture judders, stutters, flickers so much that I get a headache. So Im assuming that this problem is related to field order.

Playing back with the wrong field order will result in very fast jerky motion -- 25 back and forth jerks per second with PAL video, 30 with NTSC video. This is fast enough that most people would describe it as flickery and blurry.

I will try to export the video in Premiere, reversing the fieldorder to "Upper fields first"?

Be careful. It's possible that the program will reverse the field order of the frames in addition to reversing the field order flagged in the output. Which will mean your field order is still wrong at playback. Even if it doesn't swap the field order of the frames, if you have some clips with the opposite field order, those clips will play back wrong. You usually need to convince the editor that that particular clip is the opposite field order. In many editors you right click on the clip in the timeline to specify the clip properties.

I could upload a clip but the problem doesnt really show unless I play it on a regular dvd-player. On my PC the footage looks better.

Someone who knows what they're doing can determine if the field order is flagged wrong for the frames that are in the video.

[garylanders]

When I click on the videoclip and choose "field options" it reads: "Reverse field dominance" (Unchecked), "Processing Option": None

And when I export the footage the field dominance is by default set to "Lower fields first".


I would upload a clip but when I try to export/encode it to MPEG2 in Premiere that preset is missing for some reason. Could I export is as uncompressed AVI ? DV AVI ??

//GL

[jagabo]

I would upload a clip but when I try to export/encode it to MPEG2 in Premiere that preset is missing for some reason. Could I export is as uncompressed AVI ? DV AVI ??

Yes. But I was suggesting you use the tools I mentioned earlier to extract a small clip from the DVD you already made.

[garylanders]

I would upload a clip but when I try to export/encode it to MPEG2 in Premiere that preset is missing for some reason. Could I export is as uncompressed AVI ? DV AVI ??

Yes. But I was suggesting you use the tools I mentioned earlier to extract a small clip from the DVD you already made.

Sorry, here it is:

[jagabo]

The file called Lowerfieldfirst_origdvd_.mpg does indeed have lower field first frames and the MPG headers flag it as lower field first. It should play properly in a DVD player.

The second file, upperfieldfirst_.mpg, contains frames that are upper field first, but the MPG headers say it is lower field first. This should not play properly in a DVD player. The frames were converted from lff to uff by shifting the frame up by one scan line.

[garylanders]

The file called Lowerfieldfirst_origdvd_.mpg does indeed have lower field first frames and the MPG headers flag it as lower field first. It should play properly in a DVD player.

The second file, upperfieldfirst_.mpg, contains frames that are upper field first, but the MPG headers say it is lower field first. This should not play properly in a DVD player. The frames were converted from lff to uff by shifting the frame up by one scan line.

Thank you! But the problem is that when I export the first file (lowerfieldfirst) to uncompressed avi and the burn it to a dvd using Encore the footage is acting like described earlier in the thread... : S

//GL

[jagabo]

Thank you! But the problem is that when I export the first file (lowerfieldfirst) to uncompressed avi and the burn it to a dvd using Encore the footage is acting like described earlier in the thread...

Uncompressed AVI doesn't really support interlaced video and has no way of flagging field order. When you import such a clip into an editor you must use the clip property settings to let the editor know the clip is interlaced and the field order. Can't you just load the MPG clip into Encore directly? It's already DVD compliant.

[garylanders]

Thank you! But the problem is that when I export the first file (lowerfieldfirst) to uncompressed avi and the burn it to a dvd using Encore the footage is acting like described earlier in the thread...

Uncompressed AVI doesn't really support interlaced video and has no way of flagging field order. When you import such a clip into an editor you must use the clip property settings to let the editor know the clip is interlaced and the field order. Can't you just load the MPG clip into Encore directly? It's already DVD compliant.

Im afraid I cant "Export to Encore", the option is greyed out. Neither can I encode the clip to MPEG2.

Right clicking on the clip in Premiere and choosing reverse field order, might that work?

Or should I just try to reinstall Premiere?

//GL

[jagabo]

Right clicking on the clip in Premiere and choosing reverse field order, might that work?

Yes.

[garylanders]

Exporting the clip to uncompressed avi while choosing "upper fields first" actually worked. Both my PS2 and DVD-Player/Recorder showed the clip correctly.

Problem solved, thank you all for your help!

//GL