Chapter count goes up after files ripped.

[sambat]

Using DVD Decrypter to rip a range of chapters from a Title.
I know that different chapters may contain more or less cells.
Using IfoEdit to create new ifo files, I have the option of creating a single chapter for the new title or a chapter for each cell.
If I elect one chapter for each cell, there can now be perhaps 24 chapters created for a 16 chapter movie.
Can I get back to the original cells per chapter using these programs?

[tinker]

I am not sure about IfoEdit, but you can easily do it with PgcEdit.

[sambat]

Thank you Tinker for the suggestion.
I see how you can associate cells with a particular chapter and delete the orphan chapters with the Table Editor - but that requires you to preview the cells, else write down the number of cells per chapter when the DVD is being ripped.
And if I take chapters from different titles and create a new DVD, it's a nuisance to keep track.

I have been assuming that the number of cells making up the original chapter (before IfoEdit creates new chapters) is still in the vob waiting to be teased out.

[manono]

I have been assuming that the number of cells making up the original chapter (before IfoEdit creates new chapters) is still in the vob waiting to be teased out.

Nope. You're making a distinction between cell and chapter where there is none, like a chapter is some sort of a super-cell. The PGCEdit way is also the only way I can think of to do what you want. At least it has a preview so you can see what you're doing. You can probably also redo the commands to 'jump over' the cells you want to skip (as in the original DVDs), but I don't think that would be any easier. And someone else would have to explain that way to you. You could ask in the IFO/VOB Editors Forum over at Doom9 where the PGCEdit developer and a lot of other smart people hang out.

[sambat]

I thought more on the lines that a Chapter is a container that the cells can be assigned to.
The good people at Doom9 are way too smart for me - I hope that came out right..Merry Christmas.

[tinker]

I thought more on the lines that a Chapter is a container that the cells can be assigned to.

More or less you are assuming correctly. Only thing is that a chapter can only have consecutive cells. It is really not any container per say, it is just point (flag) in a Title which DVD player interpret when you press forward advance (skip) button.
If you want to jump from one cell to other between different chapters you have to use a cell command to do that.

[r0lZ]

I don't understand exactly what your problem is. I assume that you have stripped down some chapters from the movie with VobBlanker. Right?
VobBlanker does not remove the discarded chapters: it replaces them with a single black frame. It's why the original chapters are still in the resulting movie. (This is intentional, as otherwise the original chapter menu will not work correctly any more.)

If you really want to remove the chapters, there are two ways, both using PgcEdit:


1. A chapter (aka PTT) is assigned to a Program (aka PG), which is itself assigned to a cell. In a normal, sequential title, there must be one PTT per PG. (In other words, the programs and chapters numbers are identical.) So, to get rid of a chapter, you must remove the program.

Double-click the movie PGC to open the PGC Editor. Click on the "Prog. (PG)" button of the cell corresponding to the chapter you want to remove. That program will be removed, and the corresponding cell will be merged with the previous program (and chapter). Repeat for all chapters to remove. Finally, fix the number of chapters in the PTT table by clicking the "Edit Chapter (PTT) Table" button, and use "Delete Last Chapter" to remove the orphan chapters (assigned to programs that do not exist any more).

This method leaves the tiny black cells added by VobBlanker. If you want to remove them completely, use the second method.


2. This method deletes completely the cells you want to remove. You can use it directly on the original DVD (no need to use VobBlanker before).

Again, open the PGC Editor, then click on the "Remove Cells" button. Select the cell or cells range you want to remove, untick the option "Keep the programs in sync with the cells" and tick "Shorten the chapter table if needed". Finally, click OK. Repeat for all cells you want to remove. (BTW, it is usually easier to remove the cells in reverse order (the last cells first), as otherwise the cells numbers change after each operation, and that can be confusing).

Be aware that the cells have not been removed from the VOB files. Only the reference to the cells in the cells table of the PGC have been removed. To remove the cells from the VOB and regain the disc space, process the titleset with FixVTS of VobBlanker. (Both will drop the unreferenced cells anyway, so there is no need to specify which cells to remove in VobBlanker.)


You should now have the right number of chapters in your title. If your DVD has a chapter menu, you will have to fix it, as now, the chapter buttons link to other chapters.

[Alex_ander]

In a normal, sequential title, there must be one PTT per PG.

Why can't there be a program not registered as chapter? It is often useful in case you don't want direct access from menu to that point and only want it work from 'next/previous' (and it works). Or is it forbidden somewhere?

[r0lZ]

Yes, it's forbidden by the DVD-Video standard (but not on not-one_sequential titles). I agree that it's a stupid limitation, and most players are OK with "out of sync" PGs and PTTs.

And yes, with all players I have tested so far, a PG without a chapter can be accessed with the Prev and Next buttons of the remote. (I had the habit of adding an orphan PG for the last tiny cell of the title, to easily skip to the end of the title with the remote, without having an empty chapter showing in the chapter list of the player. But you will never see that in a commercial DVD, as it's theoretically forbidden.)

[sambat]

I don't understand exactly what your problem is. I assume that you have stripped down some chapters from the movie with VobBlanker. Right?

Is this me?
No, I wasn't using VobBlanker.
Using DVD Decrypter to rip a chapter or range of chapters (or repetitions of the 'skip' button on the remote), I noted that it contains a number of cells.
Eventually, IfoEdit offers to create one chapter per cell - which ends up many more chapters (or repetitions of the skip button) that I started with - and the original question was whether or not I could get back to the original number of skips, using DVD Decrypter & IfoEdit - not that I haven't learned from the diversion, it has been very enlightening.

[r0lZ]

Sorry, I should have read your posts more carefully.

IMO, it is easier to rip the entire DVD, then remove the cells you don't need (as explained in method 2). No need to rebuild the IFOs. You will not have additional chapters that way, and the stream attributes (languages) will be correct. Then, if you need only one title and no menus, you can process the resulting DVD with DVDShrink in re-author mode.

[sambat]

I tried your suggestion and it is easier and faster than the DVD Decrypter/VobEdit/IfoEdit route I was using.
The X Files disks use chapter 2 for the X Files theme title sequence and I find it irritating to have to skip over it each time.

Thank you.

[Alex_ander]

Yes, it's forbidden by the DVD-Video standard (but not on not-one_sequential titles)

Where can I read about it (with reference to official docs)? The DVD-Replica site in their unofficial version gives as 'typical' an illustrated example of a chapter with 2 programs.
http://www.dvd-replica.com/DVD/chapter.php

[r0lZ]

I see. It's not really an error, if the title is flagged as non-sequential. But they say "Many authoring packages automatically assign one PTT for each program". That's true, of course, but (probably?) because it's mandatory.

Unfortunately, the DVD-Video specs are not available online. But there are many interesting error descriptions available in the help file of the Philips DVD-Video Verifier. You can, for example, read this:

>>> [DVD] ERROR 5626 (ref. DVD-3 4.2.2) :
ERR_DVD_XCHECK_PTTN_NOT_FOUND
The current Cell (C_IDN=’cell id’, VOB_IDN=’VOB id) belongs to PG#’program number’ of PGC#’PGC number’, but this PG is not referred to by a PTT.
All Programs should be refered to by a PTT.

I agree that this error description is not really convincing, as it doesn't specify clearly that "all Programs should be referred to by an unique PTT in a one-sequential title". But we have had several discussions on this subject at Doom9, and my conclusion was that there must be a 1:1 correspondence between PTTs and PGs in One-Sequential titles. Of course, I would be very happy if you can prove that it's not true.

[r0lZ]

Oh, yes, there is also something else, interesting too. SPRM 7 is supposed to hold the PTT number, but many players use it to hold the PG number. So, if the PG# and PTT# can be different, it will be impossible to rely on the content of the SPRM. This has also been discussed at D9, and I have even created a little test-DVD (available via the PgcEdit homepage) to check if your player holds the PG or PTT number in SPRM 7, so that you can set the corresponding PgcEdit's Trace option accordingly. Several users have reported the result of the test: http://forum.doom9.org/showthread.php?t=92035
(See especially post 7 by mpucoder: it's the origin of the discussion.)