12.0 Mbit/sec MPEG2 Capture Overkill?

[hech54]

I'm beginning to think it is. Although I have a dual core processor I'm getting split-second burps in my captures(via a PVR-350 and WinTV2000 and S-Video)....at least the burps don't throw off the audio/video sync....but it's still annoying.
I'm going to try to recapture this tape @ normal "DVD Quality" with WinTV2000....along with turning everything off(including disconnecting from the internet)....and reduce the Pause Buffer Size down to ZERO.
Anyone else have any thoughts? I love my PVR350 but using it leaves you somewhat limited on capture software. Nothing else I've tried seems to recognize the card...but that is also NOT surprising to me...I knew about it when I bought it.

[jagabo]

Burps? I never had any problems capturing from a PVR-250 at 15 Mb/s CBR. I had to run a CPU intensive game, copy a folder full of files from one drive to another, and run CHKDSK, all at the same time to get the PVR-250 cap to drop frames. Even then, it was only the playback (while capturing) that was messed up. The actual saved MPG file had no problems. And that was on a non-hyperthreaded Pentium 4.

No, I don't recommend you routinely do all that while capturing!

[hech54]

Here is a sample of one of the burps:
burp samplex264.avi - 0.99MB

[jagabo]

That is the most annoying video streaming site I've ever seen. I did hear an obvious skip in the audio though. I never had problems like that. Does it show up in the original MPG file or only after conversion?

[hech54]

It's in the capture file....and yes the audio skips too....but does not result in out-of-sync audio.

[TimA-C]

That is the most annoying video streaming site I've ever seen.

I agree!

I've recently found that I can capture at 18MB/s CBR with my PVR150, 64-bit Win7 and GB-PVR (manually editing the direct.ini file) from our Sky+ box and haven't noticed anything like your Burps before. I didn't get any burps when I was capturing at 15Mb/s or 12Mb/s either. I know the PVR150 uses different chips to the PVR250/350 cards, but I've always thought that the PVR150 was the poor relation in the family.

Are you sure you haven't picked up something nasty that's running in the background and causing your problems?

Is it just that one capture or is it happening on everything?

Can you see anything when playing the tape directly on a TV? (i.e. not going through the capture card)

Have you tried defragging the drive you're capturing to? (grabbing at straws here!)

The PC is a 2.5GHz Intel dual-core with 2 x 1Gb DDR2 @ 800MHz, and an old 400Gb Hitachi SATA2 drive (not very quick compared to the newer Samsungs etc.) and has Norton Internet Security 2011 running the whole time.

[jagabo]

I've recently found that I can capture at 18MB/s CBR with my PVR150

I seem to recall that you can set the bitrate to 18 Mb/s in the capture filter but it only delivers 15 Mb/s. So there's no benefit to setting it higher than 15. At least on the PVR-250.

I suspect hech54's problem is happening inside the PVR-350, not on the computer. That is, it's losing sync with the source and dropping frames (and their accompanying audio). A full frame TBC might help.

Or maybe his hard drive has fallen out of DMA mode and is now running in PIO mode. Worth a check...

Also, try turning off the display in WinTV2000 while capturing. In the VCR controls press the pause button -- that doesn't pause the recording, it turns off the display.
https://forum.videohelp.com/threads/269699-Hauppauge-HVR-1600-HD-tuner-with-MCE-2005?p=...=1#post1625600

[deadrats]

I'm beginning to think it is. Although I have a dual core processor I'm getting split-second burps in my captures(via a PVR-350 and WinTV2000 and S-Video)....at least the burps don't throw off the audio/video sync....but it's still annoying.
I'm going to try to recapture this tape @ normal "DVD Quality" with WinTV2000....along with turning everything off(including disconnecting from the internet)....and reduce the Pause Buffer Size down to ZERO.
Anyone else have any thoughts? I love my PVR350 but using it leaves you somewhat limited on capture software. Nothing else I've tried seems to recognize the card...but that is also NOT surprising to me...I knew about it when I bought it.

i would capture at the highest bit rate and resolution possible, you can always edit down but you can't edit up, if you get what i mean.

i checked the specs on the pvr-350, it says that it uses between 1-2 gigabytes per hour, so at max capturing quality it's capable of capturing at a bit rate of 4.5 mb/s (2 gigabytes per hour is 16 billion bits per hour, divided by 3600 equals about 4.4 million bits per second), you're trying to capture at 3 times the data rate, i'd say that's where the "burps" are coming from.

http://www.hauppauge.com/site/products/data_pvr350.html

Record your TV shows to disk using the built-in hardware MPEG-2 encoder. Uses from 1-2 Gigabytes per hour of recorded video. While recording, the WinTV-PVRs' hardware MPEG encoder does all the work so your PC continues to run at full speed!

[jagabo]

i checked the specs on the pvr-350, it says that it uses between 1-2 gigabytes per hour, so at max capturing quality it's capable of capturing at a bit rate of 4.5 mb/s (2 gigabytes per hour is 16 billion bits per hour, divided by 3600 equals about 4.4 million bits per second), you're trying to capture at 3 times the data rate, i'd say that's where the "burps" are coming from.

The PVR-350 is the same as the PVR-250 except it also has video outputs. It can capture up to 12 Mb/s. I used to do that all the time with my PVR-250 and an Athlon XP 1700, then IVTC, and encode as XVID AVI. I never had a problem with the caps.

[edDV]

Original title "12.0 Mbit/sec MPEG2 Capture Overkill?"

Depends if you intend to filter. If not, capture at DVD rate and edit the MPeg2 without recode.

[deadrats]

The PVR-350 is the same as the PVR-250 except it also has video outputs. It can capture up to 12 Mb/s. I used to do that all the time with my PVR-250 and an Athlon XP 1700, then IVTC, and encode as XVID AVI. I never had a problem with the caps.

unfortunately based on the data the company provided, the math says that there's no way it's capturing at 12 mb/s. 12 million bits per second is 5.4 gigabytes per hour.

so we have two conflicting claims: 1) that it can record at up to 12 mb/s (i did find that claim on their site as well) and 2) that it uses 1-2 gigabytes per hour of recorded video.

obviously at least one of the claims is wrong.

[jagabo]

I have the 250. Like I said, it's essentially the same board as the 350, minus the A/V outputs. It records up to 15 Mb/s. The web site also says (your link) "Create MPEG movies in DVD quality up to 12Mbits/sec" and "plus a “raw” 12Mbit/sec MPEG-2 format". The 1 to 2 GB/hour section is talking about their DVD presets, not the maximum the card can capture at. There is no preset for 15 Mb/s but you can create your own. And it works. Attached is a (boring) sample from some testing I was doing several months ago.

[hech54]

I re-captured(the day of my first post) in WinTV's standard "DVD Standard Play" mode and the capture is flawless. Of course I also disconnected from the internet, shut down Avast, shut down everything I could actually.

I had a BSOD yesterday morning. I haven't had one of those since Windows 95 or 98. Restarted after the BSOD and never happened again. Doubt they are related but shit like that always happens to me...

[TimA-C]

According to Media Info, Bitrate Viewer and GSpot I'm capturing at 18mbps (18000kbps) CBR. I know I'm talking about a PVR150 and hech54 is using a PVR350 but I'm capturing at a higher bitrate than he is on what sounds like a similar system with no problems, so I would imagine that his burping problem is due to something else other than the bitrate he's capturing at.

BTW if I manually edit GB-PVR's direct.ini file (which handles the analogue TV/Capture devices) to 20mbps it still captures at 18mbps, so 18mbps would seem to be the PVR150's maximum capture bitrate. If I edit direct.ini to capture at 15mbps then it captures at 15mbps and the resulting files are smaller!

[jagabo]

According to Media Info, Bitrate Viewer and GSpot I'm capturing at 18mbps (18000kbps) CBR... if I manually edit GB-PVR's direct.ini file (which handles the analogue TV/Capture devices) to 20mbps it still captures at 18mbps, so 18mbps would seem to be the PVR150's maximum capture bitrate. If I edit direct.ini to capture at 15mbps then it captures at 15mbps and the resulting files are smaller!

I guess the newer chipset in the PVR-150 goes a little higher than the older PVR-250/350. Actually, the PVR-250/350 series used a few different chipsets over the years so the exact limits may vary depending on which generation you have.

I know I'm talking about a PVR150 and hech54 is using a PVR350 but I'm capturing at a higher bitrate than he is on what sounds like a similar system with no problems, so I would imagine that his burping problem is due to something else other than the bitrate he's capturing at.

Yes. That's my experience too. I was capturing at 15 Mb/s CBR with much wimpier systems for years.

[SHS]

I re-captured(the day of my first post) in WinTV's standard "DVD Standard Play" mode and the capture is flawless. Of course I also disconnected from the internet, shut down Avast, shut down everything I could actually.

I had a BSOD yesterday morning. I haven't had one of those since Windows 95 or 98. Restarted after the BSOD and never happened again. Doubt they are related but shit like that always happens to me...

You need to know where it is BSOD at
Get NirSoft BlueScreenView
For Standalone DVD player spec you need keep your at bitrate below 9.8 only standalone Bluray player spec can handel much higher bitrate
Keep in mind that 250/350 don't work well today moden system chipset

[SHS]

According to Media Info, Bitrate Viewer and GSpot I'm capturing at 18mbps (18000kbps) CBR... if I manually edit GB-PVR's direct.ini file (which handles the analogue TV/Capture devices) to 20mbps it still captures at 18mbps, so 18mbps would seem to be the PVR150's maximum capture bitrate. If I edit direct.ini to capture at 15mbps then it captures at 15mbps and the resulting files are smaller!

I guess the newer chipset in the PVR-150 goes a little higher than the older PVR-250/350. Actually, the PVR-250/350 series used a few different chipsets over the years so the exact limits may vary depending on which generation you have.

I know I'm talking about a PVR150 and hech54 is using a PVR350 but I'm capturing at a higher bitrate than he is on what sounds like a similar system with no problems, so I would imagine that his burping problem is due to something else other than the bitrate he's capturing at.

Yes. That's my experience too. I was capturing at 15 Mb/s CBR with much wimpier systems for years.

Yes different mpeg hardware encoder chipsets have different limits
The unofficial documentation is 25mbps bitrate on the iCompression iTVC15/Conexant family CX23415, CX23416, CX23417, CX23418
As for undocumentation 18mbps not all PVR150 and 500 and only small handful PVR250 with CX23416 will work at that bitrate and the CX23417, CX23418 it max it 15mbps.

[hech54]

I re-captured(the day of my first post) in WinTV's standard "DVD Standard Play" mode and the capture is flawless. Of course I also disconnected from the internet, shut down Avast, shut down everything I could actually.

I had a BSOD yesterday morning. I haven't had one of those since Windows 95 or 98. Restarted after the BSOD and never happened again. Doubt they are related but shit like that always happens to me...

You need to know where it is BSOD at
Get NirSoft BlueScreenView

Thanks for the tip. The crash was caused by Avast. It hasn't happened since.