Recording/Conversion Question

[hobbesent]

Hello everyone,

Noob here trying to record guitar lessons to play them on YouTube, put on DVD, etc. I've recorded a test lesson via a Sony Handicam to mini-DVD. I put that on my PC and it plays fine - quality is pretty good, the file of course is huge. What I need to do, from what I understand, is convert this VOB file into AVI format so I can reduce the file size and share it.

I've tried several programs (Windows Movie Maker, Camtasia, Adobe Premiere Elements, and a whole host of free software) and I can't get this conversion without severely distorting the video. It looks and sounds pretty good (but is grainy on full screen), but whenever I move my hand on the fretboard in the video it looks jumbled. I think this has something to do with interlacing (??), the concept of which I understand. That's the background information...

The bottom line, for me? I see plenty of guys on YouTube making their own guitar lesson videos and they look great. You can see where their hands/fingers are without (most of) the blur. I can't imagine that all of these guys are A/V experts ... so how are they getting these clean videos that I, so far, have been incapable of producing?

Is there anything I can do with the equipment and software I have to get a good clean recording/conversion? Any and all advice will be considered and greatly appreciated.

- from a frustrated, yet grateful, NooB

[jagabo]

Getting good video without blur starts at the source. Use good lighting and lots of it. Then use a fast shutter speed and small aperture. Use a camcorder that shoots progressive video so you don't have to deinterlace for Youtube.

[hobbesent]

Thank you for your reply jagabo! I didn't know I could get a camcorder that shoots in progressive, but I'll definitely look into it (sorry, novice here!). The video actually looks pretty good when I play it on my PC in the VOB format... it's only after the conversion to AVI when it I get the blur, and only on my hand when I'm moving up and down the neck of the guitar. Why would it play fine in VOB format but look poor after the conversion? Or, a more productive question, what can I do to make the conversion accurately represent the original?

Could this be wholly related to interlacing, even if it plays fine in VOB on my PC? I ask because, if that's the problem, I'll get a new camcorder and solve the problem.

Thanks again for your reply - I'm learning!

[jagabo]

The video actually looks pretty good when I play it on my PC in the VOB format... it's only after the conversion to AVI when it I get the blur, and only on my hand when I'm moving up and down the neck of the guitar. Why would it play fine in VOB format but look poor after the conversion? Or, a more productive question, what can I do to make the conversion accurately represent the original?

Could this be wholly related to interlacing, even if it plays fine in VOB on my PC?

Yes, the problem is probably poor deinterlacing by the conversion software. VirtualDub has a decent deinterlacer (Yadif). The best deinterlacers are for AviSynth (TempGaussMC and McBob). You have a bit of a learning curve if you want to use them. Search here for QTGMC or TempGaussMC and you'll see some examples.

http://forum.doom9.org/showthread.php?t=156028
https://forum.videohelp.com/threads/292642-Deinterlacing-Tips-and-Good-news-that-i-foun...=1#post1784755
https://forum.videohelp.com/threads/322333-Lines-on-my-rendered-videos?p=1996549&viewfu...=1#post1996549
https://forum.videohelp.com/threads/322333-Lines-on-my-rendered-videos?p=1996578&viewfu...=1#post1996578

If you upload a small sample MPG file I'll show you what you can expect.

[hobbesent]

Thanks jagabo! Reading through the forums was insightful and plenty of education for one NooB for one day! I found a method of VOB video deinterlacing here that uses both VirtualDub and AviSynth, plus a DivX codec. I thought I'd give it a go (since it includes step-by-step instructions). I'll let you know how it turns out.

Also, I definitely appreciate the offer to take a look at an MPG of mine. Let me try this first and if it doesn't work, I'll take you up on your offer.

Thanks, again, so much for your help!

[hobbesent]

UPDATE: OK, so I've tried the method I linked to above (this piece on deinterlacing). Here's what I've noticed:

- The motion blur that was my original problem is, by and large, gone! You can actually see what I'm doing on the guitar now, exactly what I needed (I used the progressive/weave method of deinterlacing described. I also had problems loading my VOB at first, but changed the AviSynth script to "DirectShowSource" instead of "Avisource" and it loaded right up).

- Now, however, my video looks as though it is being viewed through a fish bowl... it's wavy and such. I tried checking the "Alternate field order" as described, but it didn't seem to make a difference either way.

So, my question at this point is:

- Any suggestions on what I might do to reduce the waviness? Or am I going about this all wrong?

Thank you for any suggestions... all your help is greatly appreciated!

[jagabo]

Post your AviSynth script. It sounds to me like you resized before deinterlacing. Are you using VirtualDub? Are you deinterlacing there?

Also, 100fps.com has some errors. He doesn't understand interlaced YV12 and its consequences. Some of the problems he has stem from that misunderstanding.

[manono]

Or, alternatively, load the VOB(s) into AutoGK and let it produce the AVI for you, either XviD or DivX. Its deinterlacer (LeakKernalBob) is OK. Use the Target Quality setting at the default 75%

[hobbesent]

jagabo: Here is the AviSynth script:

DirectShowSource("test1.vob")
separatefields

I'm using a deinterlacer-smooth plugin.

I followed the 100fps.com directions because they were step-by-step; apparently either the author or myself missed a step or two!

manono: I'll try doing it with AugoGK to see if I get better results, and I'll let you know asap.

Thanks to both of you for your gracious help!

[jagabo]

SeparateFields() should have given you half height frames at double the frame rate. I wouldn't use that as a deinterlacing method. Try this for a start:

DirectShowSource("test1.vob")
Bob() #simple bob, double frame rate
SelectEven() #back to normal frame rate

You have to be careful with DirectShowSource(). You're at the mercy of whatever DirectShow components you have installed. It's better to use DgIndex to create an index file (.d2v) from the VOB, then use Mpeg2Source("test.d2v"). Be sure to put DgDecode.dll in AviSynth's plugins folder.

Mpeg2Source("test1.d2v")
Bob() #simple bob, double frame rate
SelectEven() #back to normal frame rate

Did your "waves" look something like this:

[hobbesent]

jagabo: I'm (slowly) digesting your post, and I will try the script you suggested as soon as I'm done testing the AutoGK method manono suggested (running now). I think I follow on the index file, so I'll go that route as well.

The waves sort of look like that. They're definitely not as pronounced... in fact, I think I may have mis-characterized the waves altogether. It's almost like looking through warped glass that you're tilting up and down, where some of the screen looks fine and other parts do not. Almost as if some parts of the screen are jumping up and down at seemingly random times. It's a little disconcerting. Hopefully this describes the effect better.

[hobbesent]

UPDATE: OK, so the AutoGK route didn't seem to work - said the source file was unacceptable after it ran.

I made the index file, input the new script, and put the .dll in the AviSynth plugins folder. VirtualDub has the "dub in progress" now... but there's no audio (however, the video looks good). Any suggestions for how I can get the audio back?

I'm also wondering whether the outputting .avi file will be exceedingly large, and how I can get it down to size without losing too much quality. I TOTALLY appreciate all the help you've given me here and I hope I can make this work! I honestly thought the process would be relatively simple: record the DVD, put it on my PC, reduce size and convert, upload... all in Windows Movie Maker... boy, was I wrong! But, I'm pretty stubborn as well, and having put nearly 20 hours into this thing already I want to have some fruit to show for my labor.

Thanks again for all your help!

[jagabo]

DgIndex should have demuxed the audio to a separate file (usually AC3). You can import that audio into VirtualDub with Audio -> Audio From Another File.

To make a smaller AVI file you need to enable compression in VirtualDub: Video -> Compression... pick a codec and configure it. Try Xvid at the default settings (Target Quantizer 4). Try a lower quantizer (3 or 2) if you're not happy with the quality. The lower the quantizer the higher the quality and the larger the file.

Since you have AviSynth working now you can use a better deinterlacer. Try Yadif(). Download Yadif and put the dll file in AviSynth's plugins folder. Yadif requires a special import in AviSYnth. Use a script like this:

Load_Stdcall_plugin("C:\Program Files\AviSynth 2.5\plugins\yadif.dll")
Mpeg2Source("test1.d2v")
Yadif(mode=0)

Then you have the issue of resizing for square pixel encoding for YouTube. If your video is 16:9 try this:

Load_Stdcall_plugin("C:\Program Files\AviSynth 2.5\plugins\yadif.dll")
Mpeg2Source("test1.d2v")
Yadif(mode=0) #same frame rate (not double)
LanczosResize(720,400)

If your video is 4:3 try resizing to 640x480 instead:

Load_Stdcall_plugin("C:\Program Files\AviSynth 2.5\plugins\yadif.dll")
Mpeg2Source("test1.d2v")
Yadif(mode=0) #same frame rate (not double)
LanczosResize(640,480)

[hobbesent]

Thanks again! I'll try all of this, but it will have to be tomorrow evening... after midnight here and I have to work early. I'll give you an update on my progress tomorrow!

[jagabo]

One thing I should note, if your interlaced videos are top field first (rather than bottom field first), you should add AssumeTFF() right after opening them. It doesn't matter for the above scripts but it's a good practice that may save you some headaches later.

Load_Stdcall_plugin("C:\Program Files\AviSynth 2.5\plugins\yadif.dll")
Mpeg2Source("test1.d2v")
AssumeTFF()
Yadif(mode=0) #same frame rate (not double)
LanczosResize(720,400)

If you don't know if your videos are TFF or BFF you can use Bob() to find out:

Mpeg2Source("test1.d2v")
#Avisynth assumes BFF by default
Bob()

Open that in VirtualDub and step through a motion sequence frame by frame (use the right arrow key). If you see a two steps forward, one step back, jerky motion you have a TFF video and should add AssumeTFF() to your scripts.

[hobbesent]

UPDATE: OK, so I went ahead and used the Yadiff script with the resizing (4:3) as mentioned above (I also tried to see if it was TFF but couldn't really tell, so I left as-is). After applying the script the video looks ABSOLUTELY MARVELOUS!! Thank you so much!

The only thing I had left to do was import the audio. I encountered an initial error that the filetype was unsupported. No problem - after searching around a bit on these forums I found I needed the AC3 plugin (AC3.vdplugin). So I placed it in the VirtualDub plugins folder. The audio imported. Then, when I tried to play it, I received an error about not having the proper decompressor. After another quick search on these forums I found the AC3 codec (AC-3 ACM Codec by fccHandler) to install. I installed it on my PC.

Now, the video loads fine. When I import audio, it seems to import for me (at least, I don't get any errors). But when I go to play the video, the video does not play at all and I get no audio. This only happens after I import the audio (otherwise the video plays just fine).

Can I tap you for some more advice on how I can get the audio properly imported and synced to my video? I feel that I'm so close to figuring this out!

Thanks, again, so much for your help!

[jagabo]

used the Yadiff script with the resizing (4:3)... When I import audio, it seems to import for me (at least, I don't get any errors). But when I go to play the video, the video does not play at all and I get no audio. This only happens after I import the audio (otherwise the video plays just fine).

I don't know what's going on there. I don't think I've ever seen that happen. Are you going to edit the video or just convert? If the latter, or if you can edit without hearing the audio, you can probably just ignore the problem.

Another thing you could try is using VirtualDubMod. It's based on an older version of VirtualDub but its AC3 audio handling is a little better.

In a worst case scenario you might have reencode the audio with another program, like Audacity.

[hobbesent]

Thanks jagabo! I'll try VirtualDubMod and see how it works out. If it doesn't work, I'll try Audacity. What format should I encode it to?

Thanks again for all your help!

[hobbesent]

OK, so I tried VirtualDubMod and didn't have much luck with it. I downloaded Audacity and first tried converting the file to MP3 and then to WAV - when I load them into VirtualDub, I get the same issue. The video won't play, no sound. Without loading the audio file(s), the video plays just fine.

Any idea what I'm doing wrong?

Thanks for all your help!

[hobbesent]

I'm not sure if this will help. I am trying to import the MP3 and to show the audio display. I get a message that says: "Audio display is disabled because the audio track is compressed." Could this be related to my issue?

[hobbesent]

Hey - it's working now!! The problem wasn't VirtualDub or anything else... my PC for some reason has been turning off the Windows Audio service. It is a totally unrelated problem that I've been having trouble getting to the bottom of. In any event, I thought I had fixed it but apparently not. After restarting the PC and making sure the Windows Audio service was started, I tried loading the AC3 file back in and dubbing... and it worked!

The video looks great and sounds great, my video size is down, it is saved as AVI and really is perfect. Exactly what I was after.

jagabo, I owe you many, many, many thanks for helping me get through this. Your advice has been a godsend. I truly appreciate your patience and willingness to work with me on this, and I wish you the best and a very happy holiday season!!