Tipper Gore's pro-censorship history!

[resnullius]

nelson37, if we were to beleive even your first statement (which by the way would have the outcome of eradicating the human species) we would have to stop beleiving in study after study that prove tht the threat of death setence DOES NOT reduce violent crimes period
if we where to kill everyone who tries or succeceed in killng someone we might as well drop a huge nuclear bomb on the world. why,? Think about it. guy1 kills guy2, guy3therefore has to kill guy1, guy4 must therefore kill guy3, guy5 must then kill guy4 and so on and so on do the math...it keeps going till there's only 1 preson left. i guess he'll have to kill himself.

[d4n13l]

Bigswaffo,

This arguement that we shouldn't wipe out the terrorists, but wipe out their cause is complete bullsh*t.

I know it is. Thats why I also mentioned that we should be looking to solve the fundamental causes along with the symptoms. That means snuffing out scum like Bin Laden et al, whilst also addressing what causes "Bin Ladens" to grow. But I never said that we shouldnt wipe out terrorists - I made a few reservations about how it will be achieved through Bush's current policies, but I never once said that we shouldnt bring terrorists to justice. By all means we should punish those currently practicing and spreading terrorism, but shouldnt we also be looking to stop the (real) causes of terrorism too? With Bush in office, I dont see this happening. I only see him carrying out the wishes of his masters, whilst providing the public with a side show. Call me cynical, but thats how I see it. History generally says the same too: Considering the past 50 years, can you honestly say that 'traditional' foriegn policy has worked? Someone has got to leave the $ behind, at some point, for any real long term beneficial changes to occur.
It is only logical that if you dont address the causes of terrorism, then terrorists will continue to terrorise indefinately. In short, I am saying to wipe out the terrorists AND the real causes of terrorism. Sorry, if I didnt make that clear.

d4n, if you have ever taken American History, specifically the post-Civil War era, you'll see that corporations are owned by private citizens like you and me. Corporations prevent big men from taking over the U.S. with their money. Our founding fathers built a system in the U.S. that has never failed and will never fail unless altered.

Although I am not American, I do know a little about American history. However, since the civil war and the days of throwing shipments of Tea into the sea, times have changed dramatically. Today they have huge influence over the US government (and others). If the Founding Fathers could see how corporations act today, they would be turning in their graves. The system in the US is far from fool proof, to believe it is, is dangerous.
This should make fun reading anyway, it is rather lengthy discussion about corporations but it has some valid points (and a lot of hot air=).

[Chemcat]

What a load of unadulerated crap! Corporations are owned by shareholders, which are common people...free ones I might add. And quite a lot of the ones in the USA are foreign owned. Are you a communist? lol...show me one succesful communist country, or monarchy or oligarchy where the people are free to live there lives as they see fit. As far as I'm concerned the United States doesn't have to take any crap from anybody and if you don't like it, then by all means please feel free not to come here. This country was made into the greatest nation in the world by the hard work of its' people, most of them immigrants or descended from immigrants looking to escape the oppressive countries they were born in. We don't need a "world government" telling us what to do with what is ours. We will keep what we have built and we will make it as safe as we can for our families and descendents. If you attack us, you better be prepared to die.

[ember]

What a load of unadulerated crap! Corporations are owned by shareholders, which are common people...free ones I might add. And quite a lot of the ones in the USA are foreign owned. Are you a communist? lol...show me one succesful communist country, or monarchy or oligarchy where the people are free to live there lives as they see fit. As far as I'm concerned the United States doesn't have to take any crap from anybody and if you don't like it, then by all means please feel free not to come here. This country was made into the greatest nation in the world by the hard work of its' people, most of them immigrants or descended from immigrants looking to escape the oppressive countries they were born in. We don't need a "world government" telling us what to do with what is ours. We will keep what we have built and we will make it as safe as we can for our families and descendents. If you attack us, you better be prepared to die.

You're being "serious" aren't you?

Shareholders .neq. Population
Simple fact. Nor are they a majority. Foreign owned? You bet. Surely that's worse - foreign shareholders have a stake in the running of Bush's admin.
Constitutional Monarchy.neq.Oppressive regime
Simple fact.
Your society - along with many others - was built upon oppression - especially black oppression. The native Indian communities were destroyed.
I think we ought to get back on track now...

[d4n13l]

Well said ember.
@chemcat,
Typical resonse to someone who has a few reservations about the increasing influence corporations have over governments: Claim that they must be a communist! Refute evidence contrary to what you would like to believe, by asking them to show you one sucessful communist regime.
Argument to ignorance that doesnt even come close to addressing what is being said.

Typical response to someone who, is not a resident of the US, makes a few reservations about the US governments foreign policy: Tell them not go there! If they dont like it, then they will be killed! If someone who lives under an oppressive regime held in place by the US government complains, stuff them: Somewhere, over the other side of the globe, US's kids have a nicer life. Apparently the greatest place on earth, although contrary to what the statistics say on violent crime, prison population etcetera. Then talk about how your utopian society offers freedom to those under oppressive regimes, although again contrary to what the facts say regarding your governments murky history in oppressive regimes, courtesy of the CIA. Make out that it is it the rest of the world that is complaining about nothing.

No, you dont need a "world government" telling you what to do - But then the rest of the world, especially the developing world, do not need the US government telling (forcing) them what to do because it would be good for the US economy. Why can no one tell you what to do with what is yours, when you stop others trying to control their own destinies, stopping them taking control of what is theirs? Upholding oppressive anti-democratic regimes in foreign lands yourselves (US government) to ultimately benefit your countries economy? Your arguments reek of hypocrisy. Have you ever considered why the US government is contiually branded as a bully?

I am not attacking the American way of life, I am attacking the American government, one which US citizens are not responsible for. Dont take it personally.

[Chemcat]

You are the one who's ignorant. The labor unions and special interest groups have at least as much input as companies. Don't put words in my mouth either. I didn't say kill everyone who doesn't agree with me, I said that if you attack us be prepared to die.

@ember.. Constitutional monarchy? what are you talking about? The USA is a constitutional republic, a little bit different maybe you need to read up on it since you obviously don't know what it is..

I'm curious, what country do you guys come from? I'm guessing mid-east......Iraq?

[ember]

@ember.. Constitutional monarchy? what are you talking about? The USA is a constitutional republic, a little bit different maybe you need to read up on it since you obviously don't know what it is..

I'm curious, what country do you guys come from? I'm guessing mid-east......Iraq?

I didn't say the USA was a constitutional monarchy, I am referring to my country (one of many in Europe) which are democratic and have a constitutional monarchy. You need to read up about that term to see how it differs from a monarchy or autocratic system.
And yes, we are all from Iraq: our weapons facilities are making yours look archaic. Vivre la Iraq!

[OptimusPrime22]

It's amazing to me just how sad people really are. So many people are HELL bent on blood shed and destruction that nobody wants to take a minute and just cool it down. Chill out and don't let it get too wild. Why is everyone in an angry up roar to KILL THE TERRORISTS. I got news for you. The ones who destroyed the WTC are already dead along with all the innocents. Do I think the people who organized this should be brought to justice? Yes, without a shadow of a doubt. However, I am not going to be blindly led into believing that Bush is the Good Guy who is out to save us all. Last time I checked, Superman was still just a fictional character. If we are going to unite and solve this worlds problems then that means we have to find a common ground. We need to find out why terrorism happens and what causes it. We can't make everyone see the error of their ways but we can't go out and kill them all either. It's so easy for us to talk all this trash from behind our computer screens and cozy homes. While we have family and friends risking their lives to fight a war that could be avoided if more thought was put into it. If they were willing to give Bin Laden up then I say Bush should have taken the chance. If they didn't meet his demands too bad. He said he wanted Bin Laden brought to justice then he had his chance. There is no easy solution to this problem. Let's stop arguing among one another and just come together here. I don't know any of you guys personaly but I know that us arguing is pointless when it won't solve anything. Here's an idea. Instead of sitting here typing heated words to one another, let's just take a minute from the internet and say a prayer for the world.

[resnullius]

Actually as far as i'm conserned i'm just north of you (Canada(and no it's not the 51st state)) And as to the us bieng a republic maybe you should read Plato... ceo's are not elected by the public, they are not representative of the population, they are not looking out for the intrests of the little guy. They do however have a very large influence in political decision because they give money to fund political parties. with a government such as bush's, it's increased tenfold (does kyoto mean anything to you?)

[ember]

I agree- my original posts were intended to make us think more longterm. About combining efforts. I suggest not a US led taskforce but a UN one- possibly an Intelligence Taskforce (U.N.I.T) with much greater input from countries outside Europe and NA. It needs clout and it needs diplomatic expertise. Above all it needs people with an understanding of the history of terrorism and how to counter it.

[resnullius]

Actually the un is unfortunatly basically controlled by the us. It would have to be trashed to put in place a system in which ALL countries are equal. No contry would have a veto no contry could go against it's decision. A trully internationnal institution.

[craigarta]

Well actually if you really want a good laugh at Tipper Gores Expense you can visit.

http://artists.mp3s.com/artists/180/mentors_tribute_band.html

[vitualis]

Just a reflection...

Is it just me or is the average American completely surprised by the fact that many people the world over (not just Arabic/Islamic countries, but also Europe, Asia, Africa, etc.) don't really like America (as the world political/commercial entity)?



Mind you, I like Americans (the individual people), but like others, I have serious reservations about how America is run (in both domestic and foreign policy).

I'm glad to see that it has been agreed on that the US is simply a "Republic" rather than a "democracy". Now, if only the US will stop speaking of themselves as the "champion/protector" of the "democratic way of life".

Well argued d4n13l and ember.

Obviously those who are guilty of terrorist attacks should be brought to justice. However, this is insufficient. As dn4n13l, terrorist don't develop simply for the kicks of murdering a lot of Americans. There are root underlying reasons why some people grow up hating the US so much that they are will to die just to kill Americans. These reasons have been explained in some of the links d4n13l posted previously and I urge you to actually READ them.

didn't say kill everyone who doesn't agree with me, I said that if you attack us be prepared to die.

It is exactly this sort of attitude that breeds terrorism and continues the circle of violence. When the US bombed Afghanistan to bits, hundreds if not thousands of innocent (i.e., non-Taliban, non-al-Queda) Afghani civilians were killed. By your logic, the US should now "prepare to die" for attacking Afghanistan.

Regards.

[Nelson37]

In attacking Afghanistan, we attacked a country which harbored and supported, on many levels, an act which can not be tolerated by a civilized world community.

In many cases, these organizations exist because men like binLaden and Arafat gain power and prestige by leading them. Throughout history, there have always been those who are, or see themselves as, downtrodden. It is easy to portray this as the fault of the rich guys up on the hill, which for many today means the US. We are simply the easist, fattest target. Whoever is best at badmouthing us gets to lead the minions.

Unique in history, however, is that in this country, ANYONE, regardless of birth, race, or religion, can get just as fat and high up on the hill through their own innate talent and/or ability as they want to, unlike ANY other country, at ANY time, under ANY other system.

No, capitalistic democracy isn't perfect, it's just better than anything else we've come up with yet.

As for negotiating the Arab-Isreali thing, haven't we been doing that for 40 years? How do you negotiate with people who were dancing in the streets in every Arab captial at the news that nerve gas bombs had hit a residential section in Tel-Aviv?

If the member nations of the UN would step up to the plate, I think that would be a fine thing, Argentina could send their submarine, Norway could send their Tank, and maybe Australia could kick in a helicopter on a fishing boat. No offense, fellas, but we're the ones with all the hardware, how about the UN pays for some of this crap?

[resnullius]

That you actually beleive the us is the only contry in the world where anyone can become rich is incredibly ignorant. That u think the un should pay for action which has never been approved by it (ie war in afganistan) is astounding... And that you think no one else participates in un actions is pure blindness.

[Bigswaffo]

You guys are completely off the mark. Those terrorists are not only out to kill Americans, but they kill their own countryman. My brother, who is also in the Marines, tells me horrific stories about how they kill their own families before they go on a mission so they don't have to deal with them. And the reports that thousands of civilians were killed is bull. There were some, but not that many. In a war, someone's going to die. And all those who don't live in the U.S. and still critique it, how would know. You sit back in your countries and envy the US and cry about how you wish you could be there. President Bush is one of the best presidents our country has ever had. One day, you will be attacked by terrorists too, and are you going to fight them. Or tell how harsh life is on them. That's the situation we're in now. :evil:

[resnullius]

Actually, most europeen countries deal with terrorism constantly, just think of ireland and the ira, or if you go to paris you'll see all the garbages are closes because ppl would put bombs in them, or
Spain with their basque separatist or in Canada we had the flq. We've all been dealing with terrorism. What the us is doing now is trying to fight hate with more hate. that's the same as adding oil to a fire to put it out.
As to crying cause we wished we were in the states, i think you have an over inflated sense of patriotism(blind patriotism) I've been offered jobs in the states where i would have been paid more than what i make here but i did'nt want to deal with all your crime problems, i don't want my son to grow up afraid of walking down a street at night.

[zzyzzx]

NEW YORK - More than a year removed from public office, former vice president Al Gore and his wife Tipper are enjoying the best sex of their lives, the happy couple reported Monday.

"For far too many years, we didn't have time to really focus on us," Gore told Matt Lauer during an interview on Today. "Between raising the kids and running for office and everything else, there always seemed to be something that took precedence over romance. But now, with the kids all grown up and a job that doesn't take up every waking moment of the day, I can finally enjoy some nice moments of intimacy with my beautiful and, dare I say, sexy wife."

Gore said that in the past 12 months, he and Tipper have "rekindled the flame of passion" in their marriage, taking time each day to lavish attention and affection on each other. Citing one such example, Gore said that last Friday, he came home from a speech at the American Bar Association's annual convention to find Tipper waiting for him in the bedroom in a lace teddy with a rose between her teeth. She then handed him a book of "love coupons" redeemable for a variety of sexual favors.


Above: The happy, sexually re-energized couple enjoys a glass of wine together.



"It's that sort of spontaneity that keeps things exciting in a marriage," said Gore, lovingly stroking his wife's hair. "And, believe me, things were pretty exciting that night."

Added Tipper: "Al can be a real tiger."

According to Gore, the frequency of his sexual activity with Tipper has increased significantly in the past year.

"I must say I'm very satisfied with our current volume of lovemaking," said a visibly relaxed Gore. "Did I say satisfied? I meant overjoyed. In fact, things are so good, I may have to seriously rethink my plans to make another run for president in 2004!"

Though she admitted she's "never been much of a thrill-seeker in the sex department," Tipper said a number of her recent intimate encounters with her husband have involved an element of risk: On Feb. 25, she said, the couple "got amorous" just moments before an endorsement appearance for South Dakota senate candidate Tim Johnson. A week later, they coupled during a cross-country flight to California.

"Forgive me if I blush, Matt," Tipper told Lauer, "but Al and I actually made love about half an hour ago, right before coming on this show."

Despite their current inflamed passion, the Gores said their sex life did not instantly reignite upon departing Washington last year.

"After losing the election, Al was really depressed for a while," said Tipper, a longtime crusader for mental-health issues. "With depression, as you may know, there typically comes a loss of sexual appetite. Over time, though, he gradually realized that this was a good chance to rediscover parts of himself he'd forgotten. That's when we began our sexual re-awakening."

Not since Jimmy and Rosalynn Carter left the White House for Plains, GA, in January 1981 has there been such an upswing in post-Executive Office coitus.

"Things are less hectic, but it's not like we're loafing around doing nothing," Tipper said. "Al's been doing fundraising for his political action committee, and I've been busy speaking at Democratic fundraisers, as well as continuing my work as honorary chairwoman for the National Mental Health Awareness Campaign. But in no way does any of that diminish our desire to spend a romantic evening together in a bubble bath, surrounded by scented candles."

Added Gore: "The difference between our current work lives and the way it was before is that now we come home energized. Our work keeps us apart just enough to heighten our passion. There's a great feeling coming home from a fundraiser all pumped up and being able to transfer that energy into carrying my wife to bed and letting nature take its course, if you know what I mean."

"It's like right after we were married all over again," a flushed Tipper said. "I don't want to get too specific, but some of the things we've done would cause quite a scandal in Washington circles."

Exchanging smoldering glances, the Gores ended the interview and disappeared backstage.

[d4n13l]

ROTFLMAO

[ember]

Damn - someone got back on track...

[vitualis]

...You sit back in your countries and envy the US and cry about how you wish you could be there

LOL... Do you really think that most people living in non-US Westernised countries actually WANT to live in the US???

One of the highest prison populations... one of the highest % of GDP spent on health and yet 20% of your population can't afford regular health care... extraordinarily expensive education costs... and of course, a target for terrorism.

Regards.

[zzyzzx]

...You sit back in your countries and envy the US and cry about how you wish you could be there

LOL... Do you really think that most people living in non-US Westernised countries actually WANT to live in the US???

Of course they do. I imagine that if I were in a "non-US Westernized country" I would miss things like paved roads, food, clean water, medicine, electricity, air conditioning, etc.

[OptimusPrime22]

You make it sound like the other countries don't have those things as well. I think our arrogance is another reason why so many attack us. Oh yeah and whoever said that Bush is the BEST president needs to hold off on that one for a minute. There will be more to come and I personally don't care for him.

[d4n13l]

...You sit back in your countries and envy the US and cry about how you wish you could be there

LOL... Do you really think that most people living in non-US Westernised countries actually WANT to live in the US???

One of the highest prison populations... one of the highest % of GDP spent on health and yet 20% of your population can't afford regular health care... extraordinarily expensive education costs... and of course, a target for terrorism.

Regards.

LOL, that's what I thought.

But dont forget...
The poor standard of education that most of its schools offer: Hence American children being regarded as some of the most under educated in the 1st world.
Growing trend for school children to go on rampages, shooting their class mates and teachers.
An unusually high rate of violent crime, especially murder rate.
High prison population.
A place where violence is casually accepted.
Oil makes the world go around, here's how the US government helps.
Possibly one of the most corrupt, anti-democratic political systems of the 1st world.
The CIA, God... need I go into detail?
An astronomical defense budget, running into hundreds of billions of dollars: Perhaps levels reaching $400 billion will be seen in the near future given the recent attacks.
A government that has no care for the environment.
A government that supports foreign dictators... as long as it suits them (Iraq, Chili, etc)
A government that over the last 30 years have been responsible for the deaths of around 3,000,000 people (search CNN for more details).
A government that benefits greatly from war, selling its weaponary to any Tom, Dick or Harry.
An appauling history in foreign policy.
A president that leaves the rest of the world disillusioned, at a time when he needs them the most.

However, not all bad news! At least they welcome immigrants, just gotta watch out for those road side beatings...
And you can climb to the top of a very high ladder if you are good at what you do.

...You sit back in your countries and envy the US and cry about how you wish you could be there

Hmmm, after much consideration, I think that I will stay put. Thanks.

[BerrantRyke]

Aint ethnocentrism a complete bitch?

[edit:cant spell today]

[d4n13l]

[Can't spell any day. Always have trouble with words that contain ie or ei]

[resnullius]

BerrantRyke pls explain...
cause the way i saw it, is that u saw us as an ethnic group. and therefore saying that americains as a group are egocentrical... but then i saw an american flag at the bottom of your post?????

[MOVIEGEEK]

Here's a thought:mind your own countries business.By the way Resnellius,
when you spell a country you use capital letters.

[resnullius]

Moviegeek 1 if the US minded it's own biz this discussion would'nt be happening. 2 next time u complain about how I write make sure you're better (here's a hint twice you've written my nick twice you've mispelled it(i hope your mature enough for that not to be done on purpose).

[MOVIEGEEK]

Some Canadians just have an inferiority complex