Capturing on DC10 Plus

[mshepley]

Hi everyone.
Firstly I am preparing to capture my first file for VCD (or possibly SVCD depending on what I can get my head round) on my AMD-K6/win 98/64mb RAM/40Gig HDD system with my DC10+ Capture Card.
I just need someone to confirm the following as there seems to be so much stuff to think about.
I've figured out that Capture size (PAL) 352x288 at Frame Rate 25fps.
What do I set my Data rate at? After testing my HDD the max rate is 2300, so should I set it at this or just below to allow "room to breathe"?
This card does not allow you to choose a codec for capture, is this correct?
Most of my stuff is Mono, so I've pretty much got the audio sussed.
OK, so I have my Captured File, what format is this in? and can I transfer this direct to VCD? I suspect not. In which case I then create an AVI file using the DC10+ software. Yes? Or do I use other software to create my MPEG 1 (or 2) directly from the captured file or must I convert the Captured file to AVI first?
To a lot of you this may be extremely rudimentary, but I certainly would appreciate a helping hand. My aim is to transfer a few of my videos onto VCD (or SVCD) before they completely wear out.
Many thanks for a superb forum.

[Ashtrader2000]

Data rate: Make a few tries, and choose the highest without lost frames.

Codec: The DC10+ card makes hardware MJPEG compression. Some programs can convert this into other codecs in realtime, but I wouldn't recommend it, since quality will not be great.

Format: MJPEG compressed AVI.

Directly to VCD: No. You need to convert first. A nice program to do this is Tsunami (TMPGenc). It's free, and it's very good with DC10+ captures. But beware; The DC10+ card tend to swap the fields (if source is interlaced), so you should swap them back before making the (S)VCD.

You don't need to convert the captured file to AVI before encoding it to MPEG, 'cause it's captured in AVI format (MJPEG compressed AVI). This AVI will load fine into Tsunami. For some reason, though, the Tsunami encoder can't use the DC10+ codec, but any MJPEG codec will do insted. I use Morgan myself.

Have fun!

Ashtrader

[mshepley]

Thanks Ashtrader
I appreciate you taking the time. One thing that does confuse me is when you say the DC10 "tends to swap the fields" what fields? and could you define "interlaced source" for me.
As you have probably surmised I haven't quite got the terms down yet.
Someone told me that using the Vidcap programme that comes with the DC10+ is a better way to go as the Pinnacle program "sucks" (they said this). Just wondered if you'd ever tried this and would agree?
I am assuming that in the TMPGenc program you have the option to choose a codec for conversion as there really isn't this option when capturing.
I guess a lot of this is just being lazy, as when I am able to begin burning I will find out a lot more myself. Just trying to get prepared.
Thanks for answering my enquiries.
All the best,
m. Shepley

[Ashtrader2000]

Interlaced sources (like TV, VHS); If your interlaced source has a framerate of approx. 30 frames/s, it's actually 60 fields, two fields making one frame. Imagine taking every other horizontal line away from a frame, then you have one field, and every other starting with the second, you have another field. It's done like this, because the image is updated for every field, and this makes the video smoother!

The problem with DC10+ is, that it swaps those fields, so the lines appear in wrong order: 2,1,4,3,6,5,8,7 etc. These need to swapped back for perfect quality.

I have tried both programmes, and find that Pinnacle is best, because it lets you accurately decide bit rate, and also, I've experienced some out of sync captures with the Vidcap/AMcap, but never with Pinnacle Studio!

If you are converting to VCD or SVCD, then you have to use MPEG-1 for VCD and MPEG-2 for SVCD. That's the standard! If you are converting to an AVI (with e.g. DivX as compression), I would suggest using Virtual Dub rather than TMPEGenc. It lets you choose from all installed codecs.

Ashtrader

[mshepley]

Hi again Ashtrader,
Many thanks for your help. When I finally get down to doing this I'm sure more questions will occur, but for now I appreciate the help.
All the best,
M Shepley

[mshepley]

And those questions keep on coming!
OK. I've captured my video, but unfortunately the original videotape source contained a few gliches and caused havoc with DC10+'s frame dropping. At one point it ceased copying altogether.
Anyway this has necessitated me having to stop the capture and create several captured files which will now have to be edited. It seems that now I will have to create a new AVI file(s) with DC10+ of all the edited footage. Is this correct?
Will this transfer cause any loss of quality?

Secondly during capture rate I noticed my capture data ratio was a bit high. Is 9.2:1 too high for good quality VCD's or is this alright?
Many thanks in adavance
M.shepley

[Ashtrader2000]

Have you made sure, that the capture doesn't stop, because of your drive's filesize limit?

Another thing could be the sync signal in your videotape. This might be fixed, if you run the tape through you TV (via the TV tuner) then from the TV to your DC10+ card.

Edit: If you choose "same as project" under AVI movie creation, there shouldn't be any loss of quality.

About your compression ratio; Sounds quite high. If you don't like the quality, chose a lower compression. In any case, remember NOT to crop the source, as this will be done, when your VCD/SVCD is played back on a TV!

Ashtrader

[NightWing]

Hi

There are no write way to do this and no really wrong ways. Just those that work for your needs.

I use AVI IO for capture. It controls the DC10+ very well. It even patches { not fixes } the 71 minute bug { after 1H 11M 37S the card goes nuts! } Splits the record files easy into mutiple chunks not exceding the file size limit. Can record up to the size limit of your HD. Even has a timer that works. Also drops the least number of frames. There is a 30day demo that sold me in the first hour of using it. Alos you can save setting for various needs that included timer settings.

I also use the TMPGE program { 12B } and have no problem with the version of MJPEG that the card puts out. I forget which version of TMPEG started the "cant read DC10+ files" but there is one small setting change that allows it to take a DC10+ MJPEG file.

I usualy record at 320x240 and tell TMPEG to "center" not stretch it. With the batch file feature and select from/to frames feature to save on space and render time. IE remove only bad ad's. A 1 hour show has about 15~17 minutes of junk which equal to around 30 minutes of compression time on my system. There is a "combiner/splitter" tool located in the File menu near the bottom of the menu list. Just remember to "set" the video for VCD! Yes guys this one bites me ever so offen when I am in a hurry.

So if you have a capture with bad section just select only those good selections that you want, compress them via batch mode, then combined them with the built in tools. You want to keep the number of generation down to a minum esp since you are using compression in storing your files.

I have the DC10+ at these settings:
One Field
No clipping
320x240
5.7:1
Data rate 780
Fram rate ~29.970
Sound is at 16bit 44.1khz { can adjust down since tv is about 78db and gets really no higher than 15khz freq range } but what the heck. It only data.

Get about 7 to 8 hours on a empty 30gb hd.

The above setting are ok with me for std VCD. Oh backup the mpg file as if it were regular data. VCD are a bit thin on error correction and are hard to make a copy of it. Make you "Vcd" from this source if you need a replacement copy in the future.

Last try burning a VCD disk at the fastest and also at 4x. Some burnner drives make a mess when they go past 4x on this mix mode style CD.

Good luck!
Nightwing

PS: The above setting are for non PAL tv setting. But the rest should work out ok!

[mshepley]

:D
Again many thanks, Ashtrader and Nightwing.
All this encouragement and info. I can't fail!!
I suspect however, that my system is a little slow for this sort of thing. I seem to be stretching its capabilities to the limit. I think I will have to get a faster HDD and higher RAM to help. My HDD presently is 5400rpm. 40gig and my Ram is a pitiful 64mb.
I wondered if another programme might work better with DC10+. Where can I get a demo AVI_IO? Don't worry thats just being lazy. I'll search the net.
Nightwing....I notice your data rate setting is 720. I set mine at 2300 (in the DC10+ programme) which was close to maximum as I understood that you need the highest data rate possible to get the best compression ratio, but the best I could get is 9.2:1 ratio. But 720 would gety me something in the region of 25:1, not good quality. I assume this is just a setting in the AVI_IO prog. Am I right?
Anyway I think I'll trade in my HDD in order to get the better ratio.
Whadda You Think?
Thanks for helping me out guys,
All the best,
M. Shepley

[NightWing]

Along the left side in the salmon color area on this web site is a hotlink to Tools. Click on it will take you to a page with links to AVI_IO site. There you can find a demo. It limited to 30 days and a max of three "split" files. There is a FAQ there also concerning the DC10+ on making sure you have certain setting turned on. Nothing major.

I have only 64mb on the system I uses for video. Oh forgot. As a hard drive fills, it slows down in writting speed. So leave a bit of "room" when you set your data rate. Strange that you would get 25:1 for 780 but could be pal format. Just dont know. Its a setting in the driver for the DC10+. Ie its the long tall pannel.

The main thing is to have fun doing it! Its an adventure! There is a ton of good information found on this site and I am constly learing from the poster here myself.

Good luck!
Nightwing

[Ashtrader2000]

The main thing is to have fun doing it! Its an adventure!

Very true!

Ashtrader

[mshepley]

Hello again,
Captured and burned my first VCD. Everything Ok using AVI_IO as you recommended Nightwing, thanks, it does seem to be a more "stable" capture.
Just curious why you capture at 320x240 and not 352 as seems to be the norm.
Nightwing: In your posting you mention a "center" option as opposed to "stretch" in your TMPGEnc. Can't find any reference to this in my version, Neither any reference to the combiner/splitter tool. My version is 2.5
Anyway the real reason for the posting is to find out if there are any audio filters of some sort available to remove soundtrack hiss during the MPEG encoding.
I am transferring old B+W movies to VCD and find that the digitisation process manages to put the hiss on an almost equal par with the dialogue.
I'm using TMPGEnc with tooLame as the audio encoder.
I suppose I could remove as much as possible by just feeding the original video through my stereo amp during capture.
Thinking aloud again!! What do you guys reckon?
Well a big thankyou to all who have helped me make my first VCD.
All the best,
M. Shepley
If anybody is interested in scratchy B+W horror movies check out my site www.missinglinkhorrorclassics.co.uk

[Gabriel_Brazil]

Dear friends,

I use AVI_IO but I´m having the 71 minute bug. How could I fix it up ?

Thanx.

[Ronin2]

For a quick description of the 71 min bug check out the following documentation at the VDub site.
http://www.virtualdub.org/docs_capture
The documntation is fairly old now and there may be new drivers to overcome this problem at the pinnacle site.
Ronin2

[Gabriel_Brazil]

Dear friend,

I´ll try it.
Thanx from the heart.

[loveturtle]

to fix that 71 min bug in AVIIO put 3 in detect signal drop
this came directly from the author it is a 32bit driver problem

[Gabriel_Brazil]

Dear friend,

It worked !
Thank you so much !