Question on Dual Layer burning....

[ranchhand]

I haven't paid much attention to DL burning, but it seems like I would be able to get the best quality DVD copy from it from it since it would give me much more "space" and my quality of copy would be higher. I have DVDFab and when I click on the DVD9 button, the quality reading jumps to 100%; evidently 9 is for Dual Layer disks. I Googled around, and have read that standard DVD standalone players will play dual layer disks. Is that correct? I am willing to purchase a DL burner, but I am checking if my facts are correct. I have read the threads here that Verbatim is the best brand DL disk, but I would appreciate any input, and suggestions for a good DL burner brand. Thanks all...
[EDIT]: Sorry, I just noticed that I should have posted this in DVD burning section; I would appreciate if a mod/admin would move this post appropriately.

[Kerry56]

Verbatim is the only widely available brand that is good enough to recommend. With a new burner you can use either the slower speed 2.4x-6x Verbatim or their 8x disks. I suggest setting DVDFab to use ImgBurn when burning to DL disks. ImgBurn will set the layer break correctly. Virtually all newer dvd players will be able to handle burned DL dvds. Some earlier models may have problems with them.

Good drives for burning DL disks include the modern Optiarc drives, and the 24x Samsung. For example:

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16827118039

http://www.amazon.com/Samsung-Internal-Drive-SH-S243N-BEBS/dp/B003LL1STM

[fritzi93]

You've pretty much got it. Any decent recent DVD/BD standalone *should* play burnt DL discs. Are you sure your present burner(s) aren't DL capable? If they're anything from, oh, 5-6 years old or less they probably are.

[ranchhand]

Thanks guys. Fritzi: yeah, my two burners can't be more than 2 yrs old. Any way I can run a test on them to see? I have a Yamaha standalone player progressive. Kerry: thanks, I probably will go with the Newegg burner, I buy all my stuff from Newegg for years. By the way, I am thinking of getting into BlueRay burner; does the same "dual layer" principle apply to Blue Ray, or is there such a thing as a DL Blue Ray disk or burner?? Thanks..

[fritzi93]

ImgBurn can tell you what a drive's capabilities are. Tools -> Drive -> Capabilities.

Yeah, dual-layer BDRs exist, but they're fiercely expensive. I don't see much point in them personally. A BD25 is plenty big enough for a Blu-ray movie backup. Main movie will often fit without compression, and even a re-encode will be indistinguishable from the original, due to the efficiency of h264 (AVC). Single-layer BDRs are approaching a dollar each in quantity for cheapo media.

Mind you, IMO a movie backup to BD9 (double-layer DVDR) is pretty damn hard to tell from the original. You might try doing a few that way and see what you think before taking the plunge with a BD burner. Backups to BD 5/9 are often, but not accurately, strictly speaking, called AVCHDs. Most current big-name makes of BD standalones (Sony, LG, Panasonic, et.al.) will play them fine.

Good luck.

[fritzi93]

I should correct myself: Blu-Ray burners are getting cheap enough now that there doesn't appear to be much advantage in getting a BD-ROM instead. You do need some sort of Blu-Ray drive to rip BD discs, after all, if that's what you're thinking of doing. NewEgg had one for about $70 bucks last week, but it's back up to $100. I expect the prices will come down some more. When I got my BD-Rom two years ago, it was about $80 bucks if I recall, and they're going for as low as $50 now. I still don't have a BD burner.

I've done BD25 backups and compared them to the originals on my HTPC using TME, displayed on a 47" 1080p LCD. I can't tell the difference. I do mostly BD9s for now, sometimes BD5s.

[EDIT] BD5/9/25 Blu-Ray movie content is burned basically like a data disc as UDF 2.5, and ImgBurn will do it correctly no problem. Enough data is buffered on a standalone so the layer break will cause no delay. So the layer break is not really the concern it is with DVD-Video.

[redwudz]

Moved to DVD Ripping Forum.

[Kerry56]

If your current burners are only a couple of years old they are certainly capable of burning DL disks. Some brands are better at it than others, with Lite-On generally at the bottom of the totem pole for quality of burns to DL. Using Verbatim disks, it probably won't matter too much.

If you want to start burning Blu ray, I'd advise not going to DL Blu ray just because of the cost of the media. The LG blu ray drives are a good compromise on quality of burns and reasonable price. The Pioneer 205 or 206 are probably the best writers, but much more expensive.
Look into a free program called BD Rebuilder for compressing decrypted blu ray video to the smaller, single layer blu ray disks. I make backups to these 25gb disks and can see no difference in playback from the originals. I use Verbatim brand BD-R.

[jman98]

Note that Verbatim's 6x-10x DVD+R DL discs are only made in Singapore. Lower speed rated DL media may be made in India or Singapore. There has been a lot of complaining by a small number of people about the Made in India Verbatim discs so it's up to you to decide if saving some money by buying the lower speed rated discs is worth the risk of getting Made in India media or not. I personally feel that some of the reports we received about the Made in India media were a bit overblown with some people claiming that all or almost all the discs in a pack turning into coasters. However, having said that from personal experience I do feel that the Made in India discs were at least a small amount inferior to the Made in Singapore ones and consequently I stopped buying anything but the 6x-10x DL discs and occasionally the 2.4x DataLifePlus DL discs which can are ink jet printable and only made in Singapore. I don't recall making any coasters from the Made in India discs I bought but one of my burns did result in a disc where the final 10 or so minutes of the video could not be played at all and I've never had that happen with any Made in Singapore Verbatim discs.

For the curious, Taiyo Yuden does not manufacturer any DL except for DVD-R DL discs they make for the Japanese market. These discs are quite expensive and nobody imports them into to the USA. I've seen a very small number of UK websites that buy them, but you have to buy them in lots of 100 and they cost about $300 for such a lot, not counting any shipping cost. The technology behind DVD-R DL is inferior to that of DVD+R DL in my opinion and the discs are a lot harder to produce so they cost more.

With regards to BD discs, it's my very limited understanding that Verbatim does not manufacture dual layer consumer burnable BD-R discs at this time and Taiyo Yuden seems to not make any BD discs at all.

[ranchhand]

My thanks to all, I think I got it now. I appreciate the insightful and detailed information. This is a great forum!

[lordsmurf]

I personally feel that some of the reports we received about the Made in India media were a bit overblown with some people claiming that all or almost all the discs in a pack turning into coasters. .

It was ridiculous is what it was. The lines in India are made 100% to Mitsubishi specs.
Thread about this topic at http://www.digitalFAQ.com/forum/showthread.php/verbatim-quality-made-2488.html
And more at http://www.digitalFAQ.com/forum/showthread.php/q-verbatim-europe-2529.html

The biggest issue is Verbatim still uses 2P vs IS.
Details at http://www.digitalFAQ.com/forum/showthread.php/got-some-tdk-2580.html#post13267

The best blank discs prices tend to be from Amazon these days.
Verbatim DL: http://www.amazon.com/gp/redirect.html?ie=UTF8&location=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.amazon.com%2F...reative=390957

And then always use ImgBurn to burn.

Easy enough.

[jman98]

The biggest issue is Verbatim still uses 2P vs IS.
Details at http://www.digitalFAQ.com/forum/showthread.php/got-some-tdk-2580.html#post13267

Thanks for that link. This was all new info to me and I thought it was interesting reading. It would explain why Verbatim performs so much better.

[Kerry56]

This is a good, simplified explanation of the differences in production, IS vs 2P: http://www.duplication.ca/falcon/DVD+R%20DL%20IS%20vs%202P.pdf

Falcon (FTI) make both types. Their 2P, hub printable DL disks with the MKM003 mid code have an excellent reputation: http://club.myce.com/f33/falcons-verbatim-mid-hub-printable-dvd-r-dl-here-309968/