HD PVR Software Questions

[NMeade]

Hello

Back in the summer, I made a thread asking what capture card would be suitable for me for what I had. That didn't go to plan since my computer pretty much died and I had to use all my money to buy a new computer. Seeing that Christmas is coming up and I have a little money, I have my eyes set on the HD PVR, priced at $185 on newegg.

My main questions concerning this device is the software. I've been reading reviews of the software and everything and I can get the general feeling that the software that comes with it isn't all that good. I would like to know the following: how could I go about editing my videos the way I usually edit them.

The way I usually edit my videos is that I take my video (normally .avi) and I put it in VirtualDub and do all my encoding with filters and whatnot in there, but apparently with the HD PVR there are .ts files and .mp4 files or something, so how can I get those videos into VirtualDub for editing? Would I need a certain AviSynth script to put them in VirtualDub? Another question is, what is the best compression to use after I'm done editing the videos in VirtualDub? I hear HuffYUV is a non-lossless codec or something (i guess that means you don't lose any quality) so yeah.

So to sum up what I'm asking is: how can I get the video recorded from the software of the HD PVR into VirtualDub for editing, and what compression should I use for my finished videos.

If you need to know, the specs of my new computer are as follows...

Windows 7 Home Premium
Intel(R) Celeron(R) CPU @ 2.20GHz
2 GB of RAM

Thanks a lot in advance.

[yoda313]

Use the avisynth template - directshowsource and select "all files" in the file type and you'll be able to open the file without a problem in virtualdubmod. I'm sure the same procedure can work in other variants of virtualdbub but I can do this in vdubmod with my files from my hdpvr. I record in m2ts mostly (but you can record in ts or mp4 but they will all use h264 for the actual video inside the files).

Also for simple cutting and quick authoring the arcsoft software that comes with it is decent enough.

If you want to make avchd discs from the recordings use multiavchd which is an excellent piece of software.

avisynth.jpg

Edit - the compression you should use depends on your format. Are you going to make dvds? Are you going to make avchds? Are you going to leave it as a video file on a harddrive? It really only matters depending on the destination and how much storage space you have on that medium. You'll have to fool around with bitrates if you want to burn to single or dual layer dvdrs. Less so if you want to burn to bluray. If you have a media player like a wdtv media player you won't need to convert at all unless you want to do heavy editing in virtualdub - but you can still output to h264 from virtualdub - there is a special plug in for that you'll have to look up because I don't know it off hand.

[NMeade]

Hey, thanks for the reply.

Ah ok. My main goal is to make videos to upload to YouTube. I'm not interested in making blue ray discs or dvds at all so yeah. What would be the best file format to record at? How big are the raw video files when they are done? And also, I see you mention Virtualdubmod, is that an add-on to VirtualDub or something? I know very little about AviSynth scripts and a little about VirtualDub so sorry if I'm a little lost :/

[RabidDog]

have you bought your new PC? As a Celeron CPU is a bit like Wayne Sleep going up against Hulk Hogan, or PeeWee Herman against Mickey Rourke. What I am saying is that if you are dealing with HD video files and transcoding them into other formats, you should really be thinking of I5 or I7 or AMD equivalent, preferably 4 (or 6) cores. And more ram wouldnt go amiss. If its only short five minute clips then you might get away with using a Celeron, but a quad core AMD would be (much) better, at the same, or a few bucks more. And RAID0 yo disks for more speed.

[NMeade]

Yeah I already bought it. Maybe I could look into buying a better processor, but my videos are almost never over 5 minutes anyways.

[DarrellS]

Here are a couple of Core 2 Quad chips for under $200.

Intel Core 2 Quad Q8300 Yorkfield 2.5GHz 4MB L2 Cache LGA 775 95W Quad-Core Processor BX80580Q8300 $149.99

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16819115207

Intel Core 2 Quad Q8400 Yorkfield 2.66GHz 4MB L2 Cache LGA 775 95W Quad-Core Processor BX80580Q8400 $169.99

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16819115057

or

Intel Core 2 Quad Q9505 Yorkfield 2.83GHz 6MB L2 Cache LGA 775 95W Quad-Core Processor BX80580Q9505 $239.99

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16819115060

If you have to edit and re-encode then the experimental version of Virtualdub would be a good option. It has an external encoder feature which will allow you to use the x264 commandline encoder to create MKV or MP4 files.

http://www.virtualdub.org/beta/VirtualDub-1.9.X-test32.zip

Here is a guide showing you how to use the external encoder and what encoders you'll need to download to make it work.

http://forums.virtualdub.org/index.php?act=ST&f=3&t=18840&

Here a brief explanation is given of how to use the input plugin system to open some file formats that VirtualDub doesn't handle natively.

WMV, M2TS/MTS, MP4 and Matroska (and potentially many other types) via DirectShow

Requirements:
DirectShow input driver (place this in .\VirtualDub\plugins\)
Haali Media Splitter (for MP4, M2TS/MTS and Matroska)
ffdshow-tryouts (for MP4, M2TS/MTS and Matroska)

All you have to do is simply open the file in VirtualDub like you normally would. In case your file doesn't show up, select 'All files (*.*)' from the file type list and after selecting your file, select 'DirectShow input driver' from the file types list.


Input Plugins

MPEG2 (by fcchandler)
WMV (by fcchandler)
AC3 (by fcchandler)
Flash Video, including H264 and AAC (by fcchandler)
QuickTime (by tateu)
DirectShow (by phaeron)
MKV by fcchandler http://fcchandler.home.comcast.net/Plugins/Matroska



The TME software that comes with the PVR is good for capturing the files to your PC.

If you want to just cut commercials without re-encoding, there are a couple of free options. They do not do frame accurate edits.


H264TS Cutter
TS Sniper


Fame Ring Smart Cutter - $40 (frame accurate editing but cuts aren't real clean)
VideoRedo 4 - $95.99 (well worth the money if you can afford it)

[jagabo]

I hear HuffYUV is a non-lossless codec or something (i guess that means you don't lose any quality) so yeah.

Your files will grow 30 times larger if you use HuffYUV. The process of editing video involves first decompressing the frames. Uncompressed 1920x1080, 30 fps YUY2 video is about 1000 Mb/s. HuffYUV will compress that to about 1/3 -- 333 Mb/s. You're probably capturing with the HD PVR at 12 Mb/s or less.

You're most likely to want to compress to MPEG 2 for DVD, or h.264 for Blu-ray or standalone media players. Take DarrellS's advice, use a non-reencoding editor whenever possible.

[fritzi93]

There are some Celeron dual-core CPUs, and I suspect that's what the OP has.

The TME software is actually pretty good. The capture module is fine, and the player is first-class. But the editing is...uh, basic, even primitive. Nevertheless, it can do cuts and output to AVCHD or DVD.

The only freeware h264 cutter that can make clean cuts, so far as I know, is tsSniper. Not frame-accurate, but good enough for cutting adverts. With a little practice you can get pretty close to exact first and last frames you want, so long as the first frame is an I-frame. Set preferred splitter to Haali AR and don't push the program too hard or it will crash trying to seek the file.

God luck.

[NMeade]

Thanks for all the info everyone, seems very useful. I just came to a realization where I do not think I could get this anymore because it may not work.

The system I'm going to use the HD PVR for is to record gameplay on my Wii, but there is a problem though. There is only composite on my TV, there is no component on it, so where would the component cables be going that comes with it? I looked up component to composite adapters and they are like $150 and I'm not going to spend that money (nor do I have it). Is there any other solution?

The way I think I could still use the HD PVR is if I just put the Wii composite cables on the input on the HD PVR, then just record that (most of what I'm doing isn't necessarily live gameplay). That would work as the HD PVR would just record the input signal and it would be fed to my computer by the usb.

[jagabo]

The picture you see on the computer is half a second behind the actual game play. So you can't play games using the computer as your only display. And there is no realtime composite pass through like there is for component. You'll need to split the composite signal and feed one to the HD PVR, the other to the TV. A simple Y splitter usually works for this purpose.

You might be better off with a cheaper device if you're just going to record composite video.

[yoda313]

If you haven't bought the hd pvr you may want to hold off.

the WII isn't in high def. It is only 480p. It also doesn't have digital surround sound.

You won't gain much over regular composite using any old capture device. It will be a little bit sharper than a composite capture and it will be pure widescreen capture. But given the source from the WII you may be overspending a lot for the source you are going to capture.

if you want to use it with an xbox 360 or a ps3 than the hd pvr is well worth it - both systems use hd and 5.1 audio. But the WII is only 480p and no digital audio.

You may want to consider downscaling your capture option if the Wii is the only system you will capture. The hdpvr is really overkill for that system in my opinion.

edit - sorry didn't see jagabo said essentially the same thing. I just offered more detail of what the Wii actually outputs.

[NMeade]

Then what is the next best option do you think? I have some friends who use the HD PVR for the Wii and their quality is insane, and I'm willing to spend around 200 dollars investing in a new capture device. I cannot buy the Intensity Pro because I do not have any PCI or PCI Express slots on my motherboard.

[jagabo]

Will the Wii put out component and composite (or s-video) at the same time? If so, you could record component with the HD PVR and run composite to your TV for playing.

[Chopmeister]

Or you could try spliting the composite and audio signals with an RCA "Y" cable. Such cables (1x socket to 2x plugs) can either be purchased or soldered very cheaply for just a couple of dollars. I used to use a set of these on my old VCR (seldom used now) which has only one set of audio outs, to feed sound to both the TV and Stereo. You will need 3 of them (1 for video, 2 for audio), feed one set to the PVR and one to the TV.

[neomaine]

NMeade,

Do you play on a TV that has a component input? If so, then a component cable for the Wii would help you out. You could get a cheap component splitter having your Wii go to the splitter and then the splitter to your TV and to your HD PVR. No lag while playing on the TV and 480p widescreen capture to the PVR.

[TBoneit]

There are some Celeron dual-core CPUs, and I suspect that's what the OP has.

The TME software is actually pretty good. The capture module is fine, and the player is first-class. But the editing is...uh, basic, even primitive. Nevertheless, it can do cuts and output to AVCHD or DVD.

The only freeware h264 cutter that can make clean cuts, so far as I know, is tsSniper. Not frame-accurate, but good enough for cutting adverts. With a little practice you can get pretty close to exact first and last frames you want, so long as the first frame is an I-frame. Set preferred splitter to Haali AR and don't push the program too hard or it will crash trying to seek the file.

God luck.

Their capture works OK for me too. I use VideoReDo Tv Suite4 for editing now. I'm more interested in trimming at the ends and commercials.

[NMeade]

>jagabo

I'm pretty sure it does yeah, but like I said though, there is only composite on my TV.

>Chopmiester

Yeah I've heard of those RCA "Y" cables before. It would be interesting if there was an RCA "Y" cable with 1 side composite for my TV and 1 side feeding component to the HD PVR.

>neomaine

Sadly I do not have component on my TV, that is the problem I have now, I only have composite.

[jagabo]

>jagabo

I'm pretty sure it does yeah, but like I said though, there is only composite on my TV.

My point was that you could run component cables from the Wii to the HD PVR, and composite cables from the Wii to the TV. Then you play on the TV while recording with the HD PVR. But that requires that the Wii output both component and composite at the same time. Many devices will only output one or the other.

[NMeade]

I see what you mean, but there is only 1 slot on the back of the Wii for the plug of the other end of the composite or component, whichever you choose. But I thought of something. My current (bad) capture card has composite cables from the capture card to the TV, and the capture card basically captures the TV picture, not necessarily my Wii directly. Do you think I could use these composite cables plugged into the composite on the front of the HD PVR and connect the other end to my TV to record that way? Can it record that way?

[DarrellS]

You'll have to use RCA splitters. If you can't find the correct splitters then you'll need to use couplers to join the spliters and RCA patch cords.

[jagabo]

The splitters can also look like this:
http://www.monoprice.com/products/product.asp?c_id=104&cp_id=10429&cs_id=1042904&p_id=326

By the way, composite signals aren't supposed to be split like this. But you can usually get away with it.

[NMeade]

>DarellS

That picture makes complete sense to me. I guess I would need to buy 1 RCA for each color (seeing the picture of an actual one jagabo posted), and 1 more composite cable that would go from the HD PVR to the other RCA slot. (Putting the HD PVR composite cables in the video slot I'm sure would not work).

Seeing as those RCA adapters are so inexpensive (only 1 buck a pop) it would be a very very easy investment. I'm just thinking if I would need to buy anything else besides this with my HD PVR when the time comes.

[jagabo]

With composite video the HD PVR won't give you any better quality than an inexpensive capture card. The only benefit would be the h.264 encoding the HD PVR delivers. But that's a negative too -- it's much harder to edit.

[NMeade]

Hey, sorry for bringing back a little bit of an old topic of mine, just had another question.

I'm going to be getting an HDTV for Christmas, expanding my PC to 4 GB of RAM, and component cables for my Wii and other things for Christmas, and by my birthday I'll be able to buy the HD PVR and a new processor along the way. It looks like I'll be able to afford a processor within maybe the $90-$120 (or so) range, so I was wondering if any of these processors would be better. (yeah I know it's off-topic from what I was asking, but I pretty much get how I'm going to set the PVR up once I get it now)

http://www.bestbuy.com/site/Intel%26%23174%3B+-+Pentium%26%23174%3B+Dual-Core+E6500+2....&skuId=9905413

http://www.bestbuy.com/site/Intel%26%23174%3B+-+Pentium%26%23174%3B+Dual-Core+3.2GHz+P...&skuId=9980085

http://www.bestbuy.com/site/Intel%26%23174%3B+-+Core%26%23153%3B+i3-530+2.93GHz+Proces...&skuId=9715194

I'm probably willing to buy the last one there, but I'm trying to avoid spending all of my cash. Another question with that, I'm not sure, but would I have to check if these are compatible with my motherboard? I don't know how to find out what the name or type of motherboard I have either so yeah >_> Overall though thanks for all your help so far

[TBoneit]

What Brand computer?
If brand name, what brand & model?
What type of computer?
Laptop or Desktop?
Laptop, forget about it.
Desktop, AMD or Intel etc.?

[jagabo]

Yes, you have to check your motherboard to know what CPUs will work. AMD an Intel have switched sockets many times over the last few years. There is no socket common to AMD and Intel anymore. The Celeron and P4 you linked to both use LGA 775. The Core i3 uses LGA 1156.

[NMeade]

Ok. My brand of my PC is eMachines. It is a desktop computer. Currently have an Intel Celeron processor. Model: Model: EL1850-01e , SKU: 9974267.

I looked on my motherboard for numbers to see if it would link me to a motherboard in Google search, and I didn't really find a specific brand or company for it. I saw "G41T-AD". Since I can't see what company makes it along with the specifics of this motherboard, I can't currently figure out what processors would work.. :/

[usually_quiet]

Ok. My brand of my PC is eMachines. It is a desktop computer. Currently have an Intel Celeron processor. Model: Model: EL1850-01e , SKU: 9974267.

I looked on my motherboard for numbers to see if it would link me to a motherboard in Google search, and I didn't really find a specific brand or company for it. I saw "G41T-AD". Since I can't see what company makes it along with the specifics of this motherboard, I can't currently figure out what processors would work.. :/

If you buy a pre-built PC you need to go to the manufacturer's website to find out what CPUs your model accepts. You may also need a BIOS update to install manufacturer recommended CPUs released after your PC was built. Things can go seriously wrong with BIOS updates, so don't do it unless it is necessary, and make absolutely sure you get the right one.

[jagabo]

That's Celeron 450 in an LGA 775 socket.

http://www.emachines.com/products/products.html?prod=EL1850-01e
http://ark.intel.com/Product.aspx?id=35239
http://www.intel.com/products/desktop/chipsets/g41/g41-overview.htm

Other 800 MHz FSB socket 775 CPUs should work -- you may need a BIOS update for 1333 and 1066 MHz FSB CPUs.

[NMeade]

So basically this means I won't be able to use any of the processors I linked about for this motherboard? What if I were to buy a new motherboard that supported those processors? If I were to do that, I would need to be conscious of the motherboard size, as this PC is pretty small, not sure how big of a motherboard I can really fit in there.

Edit -- Oh wait, I didn't read your post clearly lol. LGA 775 socket I should have? Ok, so buying the P4 should be ok to install along with a BIOS update if needed?