ADVC Mini doesn't work properly

[keyboardboy]

Hello,

I recently received an ADVC mini converter, but it doesn't quite work as it should. The main problem is that there are all kinds of horizontal bars in the (recorded) file, especially when someone moves a hand or so. The moment the image is still, there's no problem in it, but the moment something moves, the movement is followed by a trail of "stripes". It happens all the time, I once had it running without the bars, but it doesn't work anymore (even with the same configuration, both hardware and software). Is this a problem in some settings I have, or is this a hardware problem? (so should I return the ADVC mini converter).

I hope someone can help me out, since I'm very concerned with this failure!

Thanks in advance!

[Case]

From your description, it sounds like it is showing the interlacing lines. A tv should show smooth playback, with first one field, then the next, but a computer monitor will show both fields at the same time, where the motion difference between the fields becomes visible as horizontal lines (example).

Most analog sources are interlaced, that could explain why it happens all the time.

Try encoding a (short) test capture to DVD for playback on a tv. Most likely, you won't see the lines and just get smooth playback.

[keyboardboy]

Hmm it would be nice if this were the problem, but it's not. It's not the problem of the interlacing lines, but it's something else: I hope you can see it when you look at the arm of the right person; everything is sharp, except for the thing that moves (in this case his arm); there are some horizontal lines there...

[rumplestiltskin]

Upload a larger picture; can't see anything meaningful in the small one.

[keyboardboy]

this one ok? The quality is not very good, but what I mean is in the right persons' arm again

[Herve]

about your screenshot:
if your screenshot is correct, the stream is nor interlaced, nor progressive. It's only a bull**t make by a bad soft.
Your input file was interlaced, the resulting file is mixed (no more accuracy of interlacing fields, the result is dammaged)
Throw the file to the trashcan, and do again your capture process
(there is no way to correct this error after capture)

[keyboardboy]

Ok I see, but this happens all the time I record something! So what do I do wrong? Or is it the ADVC mini that does something wrong? It also happens with various input sources (scart, composite and S-Video) and different equipment as well (digital TV, DVD player, VCR player, video camera)...

[jagabo]

It's normal for analog video to be interlaced. What you are seeing is improper resizing of the interlaced video. See these two posts I made yesterday:

https://forum.videohelp.com/threads/327044-Horizontal-Lines-Appear-In-DVD?p=2025862&vie...=1#post2025862
https://forum.videohelp.com/threads/327044-Horizontal-Lines-Appear-In-DVD?p=2025868&vie...=1#post2025868

Your player or editor isn't handling interlaced DV properly.

[keyboardboy]

Ok, but what do I have to do about it? I use the hardware I bought, and the software that's supplied with the hardware... I could upload a small video to youtube if necessary (for better indication of the problem).

[jagabo]

What you need to do depends on what you plan to do with the videos you capture. You may not need to do anything. Don't uplaod to Youtube because they reencode everything -- nobody will be able to tell what problems were in the original file and what were caused by Youtube. Upload a sample to this site (30 MB max) or to one of the file transfer services like http://www.mediafire.com/.

[keyboardboy]

http://www.mediafire.com/?40vroax881lrkdc and http://www.mediafire.com/?3dcxti4sd415b3p . 2 video's, one from digital TV and one from a videocamera.

[jagabo]

I'm downloading them, but which is which? And all you want to do is watch the ADVC Mini videos on your TV?

[keyboardboy]

You can see it; the one from CNN is from the TV and the one with the little girl and little boy is from a videocamera. And I want to transfer video's from VHS to DVD (and from videocamera etc.).

[Herve]

both are "ok" (about interlacing )

CNN video has a clean interlacing and is correct (PAL size=720x576, PAL framerate=25, interlacing Top-Field-First)
Home video has a clean interlacing but is incorrect (PAL size=720x576, NTSC framerate=29,97, interlacing Top-Field-First too)
…so there was a mistake with the home file (take a look to your settings)

PS: I don't think that your converter "naturally" output to AppleIntermediateCodec. Maybe the intermediate process is bad…

bye

[keyboardboy]

@Herve Do you mean the whole video is OK? Don't you see (at the beginning of the CNN video for instance) that the right hand of the reporter is "followed" by stripes / lines? Or am I just being too perfectionistic?

[jagabo]

Unfortunately, I don't have a decoder for "icod" (Apple intermediate codec) so I can't view the files. MediaInfo reports stats for the files. It is odd that the second video has a PAL frame size (720x576) but an NTSC frame rate (29.97 fps).

So the AVCDmini software natively produces icod video in a MOV container? I would have expected DV in a MOV container (that's what all the other ADVC products produce). If Herve is right and there is nothing wrong with the interlacing you should be able make an interlaced DVD. The DVD player and TV should handle it properly (many commercial DVDs are interlaced).

[Herve]

@Herve Do you mean the whole video is OK?

yes

Don't you see […] is "followed" by stripes / lines?

yes, this is the regular look/behavior of an interlace file
your interlaced stream is OK

Or am I just being too perfectionistic?

not too perfectionnist, you just "don't know what is an interlaced stream"
I did some "tutorial/explanation" about interlaced video, take a look to it to understand what are its "specifications"

(Back to your files)
CNN is a capture of a PAL broadcasting, no concern with the result
"Home" is buggy. I don' know your soft, but use presets if the soft has some (actually you mixed PAL size and NTSC framerate, both are not compliant )

bye

[keyboardboy]

Ok but does it really have to be an interlaced file than? My intention is not to record an interlaced file, but my intention is to transfer VHS to DVD with the best quality possible...

[jagabo]

Analog TV was always broadcast interlaced -- one field at a time. When it is captured by a computer pairs of fields are woven together into frames for storage. When it is properly viewed again on a TV it is viewed one field at a time, just like it was broadcast. VHS is an analog recording of the interlaced broadcast signal. Deinterlacing will reduce the quality, both temporally and spacially.

[Case]

My intention is not to record an interlaced file, but my intention is to transfer VHS to DVD with the best quality possible...

VHS is always interlaced. 'Best quality possible' would be to keep the footage interlaced on DVD.

[keyboardboy]

My intention is not to record an interlaced file, but my intention is to transfer VHS to DVD with the best quality possible...

VHS is always interlaced. 'Best quality possible' would be to keep the footage interlaced on DVD.

Ok, does anyone know how to do that with ADVC mini converter?

[MervynG]

Hi keyboardboy

How did you get on? Is the ADVCmini working well now?

I have been struggling trying to export from my Sky+ HD box (the HD is not important; I’d just like to get something reasonable across to my iMac).

Firstly I tried using my Canon MV600i camcorder as it has an analog to digital converter. I got a switchable SCART to S-video cable (the Canon only has S-video in), connected it to the Sky SCART VCR/DVD socket and the camcorder S-video with the cable’s twin phono audio joined with a Y connector and inserted in the camcorder’s audio/AV input. Then I connected a 4 pin to 9 pin Firewire cable - 4 pin to the camcorder, 9 pin to my iMac. Everything worked well and I could see, control and record the saved video across to iMovie EXCEPT it was in good quality monochrome both on the camcorder’s LCD and the iMac iMovie! I also noted that the audio appeared to be triggering illumination on only one of iMovie’s two audio ‘bars.’ I repeated this with the Sky box TV SCART with the same monochrome issue.

Some further reading on the web suggested that there was always going to be cabling/pin incompatibility between SCART RGB and S-video which would always cause the colour signal to be ‘lost.’ Not sure what the audio issue was? One website showed how 2 of the SCART pins (15 & 20?) could be shorted to resolve the issue but it admitted that this adversely affected the video quality so I closed that window.

Anyway I then tried with an S-video to S-video cable, this time using the Sky box’s S-video socket. There is no reference to this in the Sky box manual apart from in the spec and I assume it is alway available should a plug be present but again the result was monochrome on the camcorder’s LCD (I didn’t bother with the iMac connections as a result).

So further web trawling. I did come across an Elgato product but skipped for some reason I can’t recall. I did however eventually stumble across the Grass Valley ADVCmini.

For those that are unfamiliar with GV, the ADVCmini manual and spec etc on their website here:

http://www.grassvalley.com/products/advcmini

or at the UK distributor here:

http://www.holdan.co.uk/Grass+Valley/Converters/ADVCmini

It seems to do all I want in that the EU version has a SCART socket which can be configured to RGB in. This would seem to match the Sky box’s TV SCART RGB out. Designed for mac it is clearly going to be able to output to iMovie. As a bonus I can convert my old VHS videos too.

I was about to purchase it when a GV tech advisor said that all my issues stemmed from Sky’s encryption and that it was common to see this resulting in monochrome and poor audio.

I am not convinced he’s right as on this basis surely the Elgato would also be ’seeing’ encrypted output too? Surely the playback output from the SCART on the Sky box isn’t encrypted, its just the file(s) on the hard drive?

Now you have had interlacing issues. Were they there on playback on iMovie, AppleTV or your own TV? Have you sorted it?

Thanks.

[edDV]

Ok but does it really have to be an interlaced file than? My intention is not to record an interlaced file, but my intention is to transfer VHS to DVD with the best quality possible...

The problems you are seeing are due to poor deinterlace and resizing the video. Keep interlace video 1x vertical size.

"Normal" interlace DV workflow is Firewire capture to a native DV project, edit DV then export encode to an interlace DVD. The DVD player will output interlace or progressive depending on output settings. If progressive output is selected, an internal hardware deinterlacer will be used.

iMovie defaults to interlace DV mode. Export DV file to Toast and then create an interlace DVD. Keep the interlace DV "edit master" file for future use. I'm not sure if iDVD deinterlaces or not. I've rarely used it.

If you then want to convert to You-Tube or other progressive output, convert from the edit master file.

[keyboardboy]

@Mervyng what I did was going back to the shop to ask if they knew something about this problem. They didn't know anything about the problem itself, so they took back my converter and a new one will be delivered to them (I don't know when, but I hope it will be soon). I don't think this will be the problem, but it was the best solution the shop and I could think of. If the new one still doesn't work, I can just go back again and get my money back, but hopefully this won't be necessary.

[edDV]

I looked at the European version of the ADVC Mini. It captures interlace composite, S-Video or SCART RGB PAL to 720x576i in a Quicktime MOV wrapper over USB2. The resulting capture to iMovie is similar to 576i DV for workflow.

From the manual ...
http://www.grassvalley.com/docs/Manuals/professional/advcmini/ADVCmini_InstallationGuide-EN.pdf

[jagabo]

Firstly I tried using my Canon MV600i camcorder as it has an analog to digital converter. I got a switchable SCART to S-video cable (the Canon only has S-video in), connected it to the Sky SCART VCR/DVD socket and the camcorder S-video with the cable’s twin phono audio joined with a Y connector and inserted in the camcorder’s audio/AV input. Then I connected a 4 pin to 9 pin Firewire cable - 4 pin to the camcorder, 9 pin to my iMac. Everything worked well and I could see, control and record the saved video across to iMovie EXCEPT it was in good quality monochrome both on the camcorder’s LCD and the iMac iMovie! I also noted that the audio appeared to be triggering illumination on only one of iMovie’s two audio ‘bars.’ I repeated this with the Sky box TV SCART with the same monochrome issue.

Some further reading on the web suggested that there was always going to be cabling/pin incompatibility between SCART RGB and S-video which would always cause the colour signal to be ‘lost.’ Not sure what the audio issue was?

As you've seen, pins on the SCART connector are shared by the different output modes (RGB, s-video, composite). The cable/adapter doesn't convert anything, just routes the SCART pins to the different connectors at the other end. That means you must configure the source device to output the correct signal, RGB, s-video, or composite -- in your case, s-video. A grayscale picture indicates the device can't output s-video or was configured to output composite video.

Regarding the single channel audio, it sounds to me like you were using a mono Y adapter. You probably need a a left/right/composite to pin-plug A/V adapter, or stereo RCA to stereo pin-plug adapter, not a Y adapter.

A/V adapter, note the four contacts at the 3.5mm end (very common on camcorders):
http://www.amazon.com/6FT-Camcorder-Video-Cable-Sony/dp/B000I1D0BW/

Stereo audio adapter, not the three contacts at the 3.5mm end:
http://www.amazon.com/Cables-Unlimited-Stereo-3-5mm-AUD-1200-25/dp/B0016LTZFI/

[MervynG]

Dear Jagabo

Thanks for the advice.

WRT the video image, I cannot seem to adjust what comes out of the S-video on the source device. There is no on-screen menu I can see and no reference in the manual. I have assumed this socket always pumps out S-video; what else would it do? It may be that changing the adjacent SCART socket output which I can adjust via an on-screen menu, it also changes the S-video but I just don't know and it seems unlikely. However even with an S-video to S-video cable between the two devices the image on the camcorder's LCD was monochrome?

As for the audio I have taken the cable back (together with the 'Y' adapter that was supplied with it) but it was definitely a three contact plug at the 'bottom' output end of the 'Y' adaptor which I thought was stereo?

[jagabo]

It may be that changing the adjacent SCART socket output which I can adjust via an on-screen menu, it also changes the S-video but I just don't know and it seems unlikely.

I know a lot of devices with dual SCART outputs support only minimal formats on the second output.

However even with an S-video to S-video cable between the two devices the image on the camcorder's LCD was monochrome?

You aren't using mixed PAL and NTSC equipment are you? Most PAL equipment (VHS decks, for example) will output a hybrid PAL60 signal when displaying NTSC material. This often causes a B/W image on recording devices.

As for the audio I have taken the cable back (together with the 'Y' adapter that was supplied with it) but it was definitely a three contact plug at the 'bottom' output end of the 'Y' adaptor which I thought was stereo?

I don't know how standardized the 4 conductor pinouts are but from what I've seen, if the camcorder was expecting a 4 conductor plug and you used a 3 conductor stereo RCA to 3.5 mm plug adapter, I would expect you to get left audio only:

[MervynG]

Dear Jagabo

I think you have probably explained the audio issue thank you - the camcorder perhaps needed a 4 contact 3.5mm jack! Certainly the supplied STV-250N stereo video cable has four contacts.

As for the video, I just don't know. The Sky+ box is a UK one (PAL) and the Canon camcorder was for the UK market too. There are 2 SCARTS and the spec says one is composite in/out or RGB in and the other composite out or RGB out. The adjacent S-video socket spec just says 4-way mini-DIN. I can switch one of the SCART outputs between PAL and RGB (I assume that means composite or RGB) but cannot access anything to do with the S-video socket so I assumed it was pushing out S-video all the time. Maybe I should have switched the SCART output to see if (bizarrely) that affected the S-video socket output.

[jagabo]

The Sky+ box is a UK one (PAL) and the Canon camcorder was for the UK market too.

The PAL60 issue probably isn't an issue then.

There are 2 SCARTS and the spec says one is composite in/out or RGB in and the other composite out or RGB out.

Then you won't be getting s-video out of the SCART connectors. The s-video luma pin will be getting composite video and the s-video chroma pin would be getting nothing. That would explain the B/W picture.

The adjacent S-video socket spec just says 4-way mini-DIN.

You would expect that to carry a full s-video signal (luma and chroma). Can you plug it directly into a TV and see if you get color?