Are HDD recorders lost to the U.S.?

[nina96]

Everybody else seems to have hdd recorders except for the U.S. Ok, so we have cable dvrs, TIVO. But hello, they come with subscription fees, and they can't play dvds in addition to recording. We need two separate machines to play and record. A standalone hdd recorder would require no rental, no fees beyond the initial purchase, could play dvds in addition to recording to either a hard drive or hard disk, and would both play & record all in one single machine.

Who would pay such fees if they didn't have to? Americans have no choice but to pay. Those of us with limited space and limited funds need an affordable multi-functional standalone hdd recorder.

So why are these machines being denied to us? A poster on another forum sized it up:

"The reason is that our congress is not watching out for our civil liberties and have let the record and movie industry browbeat them into trying to prevent us from doing any kind of digital copying. We won out with analog copying via tape (audio and video), but they're trying to prevent the digital end. They were even trying to get legislation written to prevent making digital backup of our own personal digital data (ie - keep us from writing to CDs &/or DVDs .

The solution is to write your congressmen & women, demanding that we keep our digital rights. Pirating is one thing, but legal digital copying of public domain or personal information should remain legal, period! We are paying for it in the first place. Our congressional representatives need to be educated to the digital facts of life.

The movie industry is trying to blame us for their own lack of security, because it's easier than trying to find out and stop the insider pirates that are the major source of pirated movies."


I concur. The demand for such standalone recorders IS there. Price is a big concern, but if multiple companies are selling here, prices become competitive. But companies won't sell here because of the restrictions being imposed.

I believe hdd recorders ARE within our reach. If enough of us voice our demands for our digital rights, we can bring the recorders here, and make us the land of opportunity once again.

[samijubal]

It's called ebay. Obviously you don't want one very bad. You'd rather just whine.

[nina96]

Thanks for the tip. Wow, a new, unopened, non-refurbished HDD RECORDER with a digital tuner, from a reliable trusted brand manufacturer, that is playable here in the U.S., shipped from the U.S., and sold by a reputable company instead of a questionable individual, with a guarranteed warranty, is available for sale on Ebay, cheap? Fantastic! I'll check it out. Panasonic is the only brand I have ever had great luck with so that's what I'm looking for, and I was completely unaware they were offering such standalones on Ebay. I haven't been able to locate them anywhere else here in the U.S. I was under the impression that there were no U.S. models being sold.

Is Phillips a decent brand? They seem overrated and pricey to me. I was gonna try out a Magnavox about a year ago, but by the time I saved up the money to buy one they were unavailable. I've been told recently they are available once again at Walmart, but I've heard negative things about Magnavox's reliability. And of course it goes without saying that it's not uncommon to receive a completely different product from the one advertised, especially where Walmart is concerned. Wouldn't want to waste cash in this economy on a machine that won't last more than a year, and getting repairs done , making returns etc are obviously hassles I wish to avoid. I don't trust Walmart. Can I trust Magnavox?

[samijubal]

Yes, you can purchase a warranty from Square Trade for any working recorder bought on ebay. And yes, new HDD recorders can still be found on ebay. I've bought at least 6 HDD recorders on ebay, every one of them have worked fine except for one that got damaged in shipping. On that one the seller gave a full refund without me even having to send the recorder back. Show me a company you can buy from who will do that. It's called feedback, if you buy from a questionable seller that's your doing. Most reputable sellers on ebay will bend over backwards to take care of buyers rather than get a negative. There are plenty of companies with questionable sales practices outside of ebay.


Philips/Magnavox is Funai. I'm not about to start an arguement about Funai. Do some research and find out for yourself.

[nina96]

Ohhh yeah, Funai, that's what I think I was remembering that originally turned me off them. I've done research on the Magnavox hdds, and results are inconclusive, that's why I visit these forums, but I wasn't necessarily asking just you specifically. Other posters may be able to help too. That's what's great about it, you can potentially reach many people from even one post. This forum is research. It helps to get perspectives from those knowledgeable about electronics, as well as people who have actual experience with the machines, and I get burned constantly by stores featuring customer rave reviews, and from Ebay individuals with positive feedback. It's like those useless FAQs. They never ask the questions people need the answers to. I email them with questions and they never get back to me. Funny, but I tend to believe the bad reviews more than the good ones. I always wonder if the store ones like Walmart are even real. Many are overly effusive. As for auctions, a lot of people will give postive feedback regardless because they want it in return, or they won't give any feedback at all, so I never know how many bad experiences actually took place. Two people I know personally have said Magnavox is bad news, but I've seen a few who said they're pretty reliable. None look anywhere near as good as the Panasonic to me. Their EH55 is wonderful. All it needs is a digital tuner. Good to know though about the Square Trade warranty. I was unaware of that.

I found 14 results for new hdd dvd recorders:
Philips HDD & DVD Recorder Remote control RC2084404/01
Polaroid DRA-01601A 160GB DVD HDD Recorder TIVO DTV TUN
Polaroid DRA-01601A 160GB DVD HDD Recorder TIVO DTV TUN
Polaroid DRA-01601A 160GB DVD HDD Recorder TIVO DTV TUN
Philips DVDR3455 160GB HDD DVD recorder / HARD Drive
Panasonic 320 GB HDD Code free/Region Free DVD Recorder
TOSHIBA HDD DVD RECORDER REMOTE CONTROL SE-R0078 RD-X2U
Philips HDD & DVD Recorder Remote control RC2084404/01
2.5" HDD Recorder/Player​-RM/DVD/AVI-Hos​t HDMI-LAN 1080P
Philips HDD & DVD Recorder Remote control RC2084404/01
Philips HDD & DVD Recorder Remote control RC2084404/01
Philips HDD & DVD Recorder Remote control RC2084404/01
2.5" HDD Recorder/Player​-Host-HDMI-RM/D​VD/AVI-Lan 1080P
RM 2.5" HDD AV media Recorder/Player DVD/AVI Host-Lan


I guess as the holidays approach there will be real choices. I'll keep looking.

[olyteddy]

@ nina96: There really doesn't seem to be a lot of interest in stand alone recorders in this country. Have you considered building a HTPC? Or perhaps moving to a country where they have more models to choose from?

[nina96]

The interest is there, but no one wants to pay an outrageous price. I'm in agreement with them. We shouldn't give in to price gouging. In the meantime, subscription service dvrs are the available option, and they've become so standard now that many are resigned to it. If however, multiple standalones were to become readily available, at affordable prices, the scenario would be far different. Even the richest Americans love to save money. Ads screaming low prices, and no subscription fees in bold letters would get plenty of play, not to mention reduction of clutter with a multi-functional single machine.

Lol, nah, despite it's flaws, the U.S. is still the best country in the world. People still risk their lives to come here. It's our citizens that make our country great, and we have the opportunity to change things for the better by voicing our opinions.

What's an HTPC?

[samijubal]

You're wrong about the interest being there. Most people would rather pay the $6 a month to have a DVR. I have HDD recorders and still have a DVR. There's just too many advantages to the DVR and too many disadvantages to a HDD recorder. A HDD recorder is just another piece of unneeded equipment for people not interested in archiving, you have to shell out a decent amount of cash up front, interfaces aren't as user friendly, timers aren't as easy to set, you can't get the PQ of a DVR that records the pure digital stream, no HD or 5.1 audio recording, if the recorder dies you have to buy a new one where a DVR is usually replaced by the provider if it dies.

Those are just some of the reasons people choose to have a DVR instead. If the market was there HDD recorders would still be available, it just isn't there in the U.S.

[RabidDog]

In addition to this I suspect, (I'm not a Yank) that if you want any sort of cable service, you get a a DVr as std, they dont give you a discount for having your own recorder. So if you get one for free why would you pay $200 for something you dont want or need?
Most Americans would far rather give that money to the Pakistan disaster relief fund.

[samijubal]

I did get the DVR free with satellite service but there is a $6 a month fee. Well worth it to me and most other people here. Hell a pack of smokes costs more than that these days. Not that I smoke but just to put things in perspective.

[nina96]

Many of us don't use an STB at all. Even those who have cable, can get it without having to rent a set-top box. I know with Charter, they don't even allow you to rent a dvr unless you subscribe to digital service, so those who don't want to pay for digital service couldn't get a "free" DVR if they wanted one.

I don't doubt that many would hang onto their dvrs regardless, and they should have that option. I'm saying that standalones should be an option as well. Technological upgrades are being made everyday and there's no reason to think that functionality of standalones won't continue to improve. Meanwhile, subscription fees continue to rise and customers aren't happy about it, and we all know that getting any kind of service, whether repair, replacement by a provider is neither quick nor simple. Replacement is easier said than done. And "free" is relative, like those "free" gifts at those make-up counters as long as you spend a certain amount of money. They just jack up the price of the general service. Do they charge customers for the service call to come out and unhook & remove the dead dvr & re-install another free one? I've heard (but am not certain) that Charter will charge for such calls unless you buy their insurance. That's not free. Hidden costs abound.

I still have the first Panasonic vcr I ever bought, the only one I ever bought, and it still works fine, never needed repair. I got a Panasonic EH-55 recorder a couple of years ago, and have had no problems. Depends on the brand you get I guess.

Things are definitely different here. I realize that a lot of people are gamers, computer geeks etc, who use & know how to set up home theaters, game & media platforms etc, but not all of us are. A good number of us aren't, and haven't the funds or the space to accomodate an entertainment center, much less the know-how to set them up. It is our needs that get ignored. Standalones weren't given a chance in the U.S. because of restrictions placed on the machines, which prompted manufacturers not to promote them here. They'd have sold them here if such severe limits on digital copying didn't threaten their desirability. More people would have been able to try them, and problems could at least have an opportunity to be solved. Our unique preferences for recording & difficulties with it haven't had a chance yet to be addressed or remedied in regard to standalones. By contrast, the concerns of customers outside the U.S. are being adhered to. New & improved models progressively emerge because people are buying & using them, voicing their complaints, and getting results. It could be the same here.

[samijubal]

I've had two DVRs replaced as easy as making a phone call, they even paid shipping both ways.

The bottom line is there just aren't enough people here who care about HDD recorders. You can go on and on all you want but it isn't going to change the fact that people here aren't interested in them. If there was a market there would be a product.

[lordsmurf]

Philips DVDR3455 160GB HDD DVD recorder / HARD Drive = this was a good one.
One of the few truly excellent machines.
An LSI Logic machine: http://www.digitalFAQ.com/forum/showthread.php/lsi-logic-chipset-1558.html

[nina96]

I'm guessing it depends on who you're getting your service from, and whether you know how to take the old dvr out and a put a new one in by yourself. If you're lucky enough to get a more accomodating provider in your area, that definitely can make a big difference, you're right that's true.

The product is there but digital copying restrictions and the continuing fight over them, make the standalones an uncertain commodity. Consumers wonder, especially in these days of big govt, what else is gonna be restricted. Why invest in a product that may very well get stripped of more & more of its uses? Manufacturers understandably don't want to waste production on a product that consumers won't buy. Consumers won't buy a recorder that they fear will be progressively limited. And of course, they certainly won't pay a high price for it, and they shouldn't. But that doesn't mean people are not interested in hdd digital recorders. It means they aren't interested in buying unaffordable machines that are restricted in their usage.

[nina96]

Philips DVDR3455 160GB HDD DVD recorder / HARD Drive = this was a good one.
One of the few truly excellent machines.
An LSI Logic machine: http://www.digitalFAQ.com/forum/showthread.php/lsi-logic-chipset-1558.html

Can these machines still be purchased new?

[samijubal]

You can ramble and whine all you want. The fact is HDD recorders are gone from the U.S.and they are NOT coming back, period.

If you want one get on ebay.

This thread is pointless.

[nina96]

If I find one on Ebay, new, unopened, non-refurbished, from a reliable trusted brand manufacturer, that is playable here in the U.S., shipped from the U.S., I will. So far, I haven't been able to find one on Ebay, and I would like to know which brands I can trust. Also, I have never bought anything that big on Ebay before so I'm nervous about that. I want to make sure I make a good choice.

[lordsmurf]

I'd like to walk into Toys R Us and find brand new 1980s Transformers on the shelves, but it's not going to happen. The time for me to purchase that item new in a store is gone. As is yours.

eBay, Craigslist, Amazon, eCost or nothing.

[nina96]

Ecost? Never been there but I'll check that out thanks. Couldn't find any on Amazon or Ebay. I have heard of Craigslist but never tried it. Is it safe to buy there?

And thanks for posting the info links.

[classfour]

I stuck a Polaroid 1601 on craigslist - hasn't sold yet. So they're out there.

[jman98]

I have heard of Craigslist but never tried it. Is it safe to buy there?

Rip offs are possible. I'm not suggesting that they happen most of the time, I'm just pointing out that they ARE possible. It seems to me that every person under 30 years old in the USA has some moronic belief that they simply cannot be cheated, ever, by anyone on Craigslist and that is not true.

Craigslist itself has the following warnings:
http://www.craigslist.org/about/scams

Note that there are NO GUARANTEES of any kind by Craigslist and if you get cheated, you cannot get them to "make it right".

Personally, I am very hesitant about buying electronics this way. Do note that sellers of anything often inflate the quality of what they are selling. You have no way to know if they are selling you a problematic unit that works most of the time, but not all of the time.

To be fair, I'm not real keen on some of Amazon.com's re-sellers either. Amazon has a real hands off, "it sucks to be you" policy towards ANY problems involving you and a re-seller. If you buy something through Craigslist, Amazon's re-sellers, Ebay, etc. I suggest paying by credit card so if you get cheated you can at least protest the charge with your credit card company and have a chance of getting the charge removed if you win your protest.

[samijubal]

Most of the new HDD recorders I've seen on ebay are buy it now and the don't stay there long, a few hours at most. Yoy have to watch constantly if you want a new one.

I don't know why you are so bent on new. DVD players/recorders are well past their prime and are only getting cheaper, not better. The best HDD recorders ever made were the 2005-2006 Toshiba XS series. I bought one from a local craigslist type listing for $40 that only needed the DVD spindle cleaned, a very easy task but does require a little mechanical ability. I also bought two Panasonics for $50 each from the same listings, both worked fine. I bought a brand new one on ebay for $200 a couple of years ago and one for a little under $70 on ebay a month ago that just needed a HDD format, no remote with that one though.

The main thing is to look through the seller's feedback carefully and know who you are buying from. If you see they have fixed any problems that have happened in the past then you shouldn't have anything to worry about. I've had great luck on ebay, I'm just careful who I buy from.

I just saw a Toshiba RD-XS32 new on ebay for $125 a little over a month ago so they are still out there. Unfortunately the XS32 has the same black level problem of the Panasonics so I let that one go. That's a 2004 recorder so there has to be newer models still around too. The new ones sell very fast though. Log on constantly if you want a new one and sooner or later you'll see one.

Square trade warranties are 3 years on new equipment and 1 year on used for the same price. They send 30% off coupons every 2-4 weeks, the codes can be found on the internet.

If you really want a new recorder just buy the Magnavox from Wal Mart. You can still buy a Square Trade warranty. Just know that they will probably buy you out for the price of the recorder rather than fix it if the recorder dies.

[Ozzyjim]

Not a cheap option but what about a Dreambox 8000 - can be fitted with cable, sat and terr tuners. I think 2 of them in any combination you want and can also be fitted with a dvd burner and hdd....

Great aftermarket support

[nina96]

Ok, thanks.
I only want an unopened item because I have yet to receive a used item on Ebay that was undamaged in some way, and I don't want to have to send something this big back. Buying electronic from resellers and auctions is a much bigger deal. I can see how a person who is knowledgeable about them would be less afraid. Sellers don't mess with buyers who know what to ask. I have never made a purchase on Ebay where they paid for me to ship it back, and their return policies have been limited. For the kind of items I usually buy on Ebay, that's not a big deal, but for something like this, I need time to use it awhile before I know if everything works. By the time I figure out how to use it, it may be be too late to return it. That's why I want info on the reliability of various brands before I buy. If I get enough info on different brands and specific models, pros & cons, I can make a better decision. I don't buy just to play around with them. I don't open them up to see how they work etc. New or used, I can't keep buying machines that die and have to buy another repeatedly. When I see used or refurbished, I want to avoid it.

The Magavox H216OMW9 got some good reviews, but then they say that Maganavox (and other brands) is a rebranded item by Funai, and I hear very negative things about them. So I don't know what I'm getting. It may be a good recorder (I'm hoping) but I don't want to have to go through Funai to get help. I know the Polaroid name but only in cameras. I'll have to research that.

How do you get a square trade warranty? I did a search on it on Ebay and couldn't find any info on it at all. I did a general search within a yahoo search engine and all I got were people saying it's a scam. Obviously one can get burned anywhere, but how does one even go about buying a square trade warranty?

[nina96]

Not a cheap option but what about a Dreambox 8000 - can be fitted with cable, sat and terr tuners. I think 2 of them in any combination you want and can also be fitted with a dvd burner and hdd....

Great aftermarket support

Thank you. I will research it. I have never heard of it and have no clue about it, LOL but thank you for the input.

[samijubal]

The good thing about the Magnavox is you've got 90 days to decide without being out a penny.

Just go to squaretrade.com and click "get a warranty", it will ask if it was bought on ebay or a retailer, new, used, refurbished and the price, it's that easy. Sign up for their mailing list and they will e-mail the 30% off codes. Once in a while, once or twice a year, they have 40% off. The codes are only good for one day usually.

I've been on ebay for 9+ years so I've got used to what to look for from sellers. If you're an ebay newbie you might want to play it safe and start with the Magnavox before they are gone too.

[nina96]

Thank you very much.

[samijubal]

I get the SQ codes e-mailed to me when they have them. You can click my username here and PM me with your e-mail address and I'll send you the code next time I get one if you want. I think you've got 90 days after the purchase to buy a warranty.

[paulw]

You can buy a TiVo here in New Zealand without a subscription fee. For US$266.

[samijubal]

I just got a 30% off SQ code: 11bday

It's only good today. They come every 2-4 weeks so there will be another one soon.