How you can use a stand alone DVD recorder and your Canopus 110

[fuzzblaster]

Here is a wonderful idea. While you are capturing video into your PC with the Canopus 110 you can use the other "S" video out to a DVD recorder and make great looking back up DVD's at the same time as the PC capture! Plus you can monitor what's going on from the output on the DVD recorder.


the Can. 110 going into my toshiba recorder (about backing up to another capture along with the DV capture)
made some of the best looking DVD's that I've gotten from the Toshiba.

I sent an S video signal from the 110 into the standalone Toshiba DVD recorder.

Really super results. Maybe the 110 converters are better and it just captuered that signal.

I could do tests to see if in genereal using a 110 in between your video deck playing the video and the dvr is actually better then going straight from the VCR to the DVR.

All I know is the DVD's I made this way look as good or better than any I have made going direct!

[hech54]

What amazes me most is that you genuinely thought that someone would thank you for this.

[zoobie]

they usually thank the wrong person anyway
thanks hech

[filmboss80]

Heh-heh! I love this forum. Hech54 usually says what most of us are thinking.

[MJPollard]

Heh-heh! I love this forum. Hech54 usually says what most of us are thinking.

Fortunately, most people here don't act like a complete ass towards others.

[fuzzblaster]

FOR YOUR INFO: Hech

I was asked to post this posting by one of the most expert people on this forum. He didn't think many people would know this!

Because you do.......dosen't mean many newer people looking to archive thier video also know this. And it could be very helpful!

FOR REAL!

[lordsmurf]

Sometimes things that may seem obvious aren't. This is not a bad quick tip post.
I don't understand the reaction that was given to the OP.

I could do tests to see if in genereal using a 110 in between your video deck playing the video and the dvr is actually better then going straight from the VCR to the DVR.

I doubt this is the case. The Canopus box doesn't provide any functions that would do this.

[davideck]

Really super results. Maybe the 110 converters are better and it just captuered that signal.

I could do tests to see if in genereal using a 110 in between your video deck playing the video and the dvr is actually better then going straight from the VCR to the DVR.

This would be an interesting test. Please post any further results.

Are you using a composite VCR output? By "110 converters", do you mean composite to S-Video conversion? Maybe the YC separation in the Canopus is better than the Toshiba.

If the Canopus Video In to Video Out is a full E-E path (digitize analog in and reconvert to analog out), then this processing may also be providing some benefit for you.

[hech54]

FOR YOUR INFO: Hech

I was asked to post this posting by one of the most expert people on this forum. He didn't think many people would know this!

I'd love to meet him/or her sometime. Care to share?

[fuzzblaster]

That is up to them if they want to be known. But It would be a good guess they know as much or more than you do.

And guess what? Other experienced people DO want to know exactly what I did. So you are simply wrong and needlesly abusive. There is no point to spread your negativity on this or any other forum. I suppose that's part of the fun for people like you on forums. I could understand if I was taking up space with needless info, like you are. But it is within the realm of worthwile info for some people. Wake up and join the human race!

TO David: who does care, yes I went into the 110 from the VCR with an S cable and out the 110 with an S cable into the DVR. It worked very well!

[chowmein]

Fuzzblaster (like your moniker! are you a guitarist?), hey can you post an example image of a capture WITH and WITHOUT the 110? I wanna see what you are seeing. You are suggesting that the 110 is enhancing your video capture from VHS to DVD recorder, yes? (I have the 55, I guess I could do this experiment, except it's all rigged up to my computer and damn it's a hassle to rearrange everything! )

[fuzzblaster]

Yes I am a devoted guitarist with many axes and am the king of fuzzboxes, got em all. Plus I have a recording studio.

I will try and run a test and post the results when I have time.

So HECH, nobody cares what I had to post, huh!...... maybe you are just too advanced. Perhaps you are better off posting on a forum about atom smashing or the latest research on the string theory! Video is so simple it's primitive!

And Zoobie....I've seen some older posts of yours that look pretty "newbee" to me. video people in glass studios should not throw stones. NUFF SAID!

[DB83]

What intrigues me about this - following what Lordsmurf had to add - is how a Canopus 110 can 'improve' the quality of the video.

As far as I know it does not offer any time-base facilities like the 330 does

As far as I know it does not offer any filtering like the 330 does.

So, basically, as far as I understand it, the quality of the video signal that comes out of the 110 will be identical to what goes in.

[lordsmurf]

If the Canopus does A>D>A conversion, then I can see where it might "fix" the video by means of generating a more-stable signal. That's a byproduct of most A>D>A conversion. Not that it's been filtered, but that errors were recorded as-is to digital, then the digital version was made analog. The analog signal may have been "stable enough" for the Canopus, but not for the DVD recorders. Although unlikely, it's not impossible.

This gets mushy to explain. I hesitate to do so because I can foresee post-skimming idiots taking it to mean the Canopus box will fix video when that's not what's going on.

[fuzzblaster]

As usual Lord Smurf your logic is indisputable.

I'm not claiming I've made any detailed tests, just noting what I noticed. I thought someone might have already tried this and like others, would like to know what thier results were.

You make a very good point there. And I know you are not even a big fan of those Canopus converters, but as usual...

You call it like you see it......and I can appriciate that!

[filmboss80]

Daisy-chaining through the Canopus is likely softening detail (thus, reducing noise) through the analog>digital>analog processing stream; and while that might look good to the eyeballs on a particular monitor, there is a significant possibility that detail is being lost. The reason video distribution amps were created was to enable multiple recordings to be made in one pass without having to resort to daisy-chaining -- which runs the risk of degrading the signal. That is why some of us here do not agree that the suggestion is beneficial.

Yes, lordsmurf calls it like he sees it...but so do some of the others who have posted here.

[fuzzblaster]

Agreed, I was only suggesting the possibility and those with more expertise certainly have valued information that can greatly benefit others.

Nothing ventured, nothing gained. It's frustrating using one method of digitizing and making DVD's when you know there are possibilites available that you have not explored.

People like you and LS save others countless hours of testing and re configuring, when as you said, my viewing in a certain monitor is far from a conclusive comparison. It really helps us less technical types, the reasoning behind why certain methods work best. And of course even there, there can be contradictions in expert opinions.

but such is life in the pursuit of perfection. And technically, I am far from a perfectionist. I use the video skills I needed to learn in order to bring my artistic creations to life.

MUCH THANKS TO THOSE OF YOU WHO GIVE YOUR TIME TO HELP OTHERS! You can really feel good about that!

[lordsmurf]

The reason video distribution amps were created was to enable multiple recordings to be made in one pass without having to resort to daisy-chaining -- which runs the risk of degrading the signal. That is why some of us here do not agree that the suggestion is beneficial.
Yes, lordsmurf calls it like he sees it...but so do some of the others who have posted here.

A distribution amp was actually my initial suggestion.

But a good one isn't always cheap or easy to locate. I really like the one built into the TBC-1000, but that carries a price. This was just a non-obvious solution using existing gear, to generate an acceptable outcome. I also share worries about changes made to the video in non-good ways, using the method. Lack of sharpness, among others.

This is actually a multi-forum conversation. More at http://www.digitalFAQ.com/forum/showthread.php/use-dvd-recorder-2448.html
It's been meandering a bit, in two places, and spans several threads on both sites.
This was just a small portion of a much larger encompassing video capturing/conversion conversation.
I reply longer and quicker there, and here as I have time available.

[fuzzblaster]

You know, my first point was about recording a DVD in a standalone DVR while using my 110 to capture DV in my PC.

Nobody out there on the VHforum has done this???

If so.....Then they would know how the video (S video in) they are recording from the 110 signal looks as good, better, or worse than going straight from the VCR into the DVR.

Say you have a prized tape that isn't in great condition. In one pass, playing it on the VCR could be the last time you can play that tape (or it will never look better then this pass).

Nobody would think of making a DVD (in a standalone) That still looks great in case the DV file gets corrupted or for whatever reason something with the video capture goes wrong. (aparently not)

I was dissed for sugesting this, and everyone is supposed to know that you can do this with the 110

Yet it seems not one person has tried this.

Is there another way you can get two copies at the same time from one pass on the video deck......let me know how you do it.

For a simple solution I thought that alone was worth posting.

[sunsetandgower]

I do this, it is how I convert DVDs that I made of television recordings to view on my various apple products.

[davideck]

If the Canopus does A>D>A conversion, then I can see where it might "fix" the video by means of generating a more-stable signal... The analog signal may have been "stable enough" for the Canopus, but not for the DVD recorders.

If that is true, then I would argue that the Canopus is functioning as a TBC. I'm not claiming that the Canopus does this. I just think your description provides a good general definition;

A TBC is a device that "fixes" the video by means of generating a more-stable signal.

[lordsmurf]

I can capture video with my computer capture card that a DVD recorder may not like. I can then output that encoded digital video, via capture card output, as a new analog.

That didn't make the computer (or capture card) into a TBC.

The Canopus does what my computer did, but in realtime because it's a hardware setup. The Canopus analog output is an analog version of a DV digital video. It wasn't cleaned up in any way before being turned into DV. The Canopus does nothing or near-nothing for the video's signal quality or visual quality. Once it's digitized, the flaws are forever embedded. That's not good.

[davideck]

I can capture video with my computer capture card that a DVD recorder may not like. I can then output that encoded digital video, via capture card output, as a new analog.

That didn't make the computer (or capture card) into a TBC.

Maybe not. If the capture card does not fix anything about the video by means of generating a more-stable signal, then it does not meet the requirements of the definition.

On the other hand, if the original source is not stable enough for the DVD Recorder but the capture card output is, then the capture card can function as a TBC.

The Canopus does nothing or near-nothing for the video's signal quality or visual quality. Once it's digitized, the flaws are forever embedded. That's not good.

The same thing can be said about the DataVideo "TBC". It is a nice frame synchronizer, but as a TBC, it also embeds many of the timing flaws.

It is all a matter of degree. No TBC device is perfect under all conditions. Sometimes they even make things worse.

Remember this thread? In that situation, the Canopus outperformed the AVT-8710.

https://forum.videohelp.com/threads/324462-AVT-8710-TBC-Lack-of-RCA-Audio-Input-Output-...=1#post2011108