Copy right protection on Glee?

[chiburu]

Hi. Anyone having problems recording Glee tonight? I have a Pioneer DVD recorder with a TBC and I tried to record Glee but a message appeared saying that there was copy right protection. I wasn't aware that TV shows had copy protection on them.

[budz]

if it's HD content you could get that copy right protection....which is why I don't have HD box....I record lots of shows from my Pioneer dvd recorder.

[jman98]

They can have protection on them, but usually for major network (NBC, CBS, FOX, ABC) shows it's a screw up on the part of your TV provider and they set a flag that they shouldn't have.

If you just want to watch Glee since you presumably missed it, you could watch on Hulu or look to a variety of file sharing options and try to find the show.

[jagabo]

Your cable/satellite TV provider can turn on the do-not-copy flag any time they want.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/CGMS-A

[dphirschler]

I forget what it's called, but if I initialize the disc in "VR" (?) instead of "video" mode, I can record shows that give me the "copyright" msg. You might want to try that and see if you have any luck with it.


Darryl

[jagabo]

I forget what it's called, but if I initialize the disc in "VR" (?) instead of "video" mode, I can record shows that give me the "copyright" msg. You might want to try that and see if you have any luck with it.

On players that support it that will allow you to record CGMS-A source marked "copy once". The copy will be encrypted and you won't be able to make additional copies of the disc.

[usually_quiet]

My Panasonic DVD recorder shut off as soon as Glee started, but I was watching a different channel at the time, so I didn't see a copy protection notice. I was able to turn the DVD recorder back on within a minute and recorded the rest of the episode without a problem.

Last night, I thought I must have made a mistake setting up to record Glee. Now, after reading this, it looks more likely that a copy protection flag was accidentally set to something other than "copy freely" for few seconds at the beginning of the episode. I was recording Glee off antenna, not cable, so if the copy protection for the broadcast was set incorrectly, Fox is responsible. Other over-the-air networks have made similar mistakes a few times in the past.

FCC regulations don't permit anything but "copy freely" for over-the-air broadcasts, and the same is true for local channels on cable. Cable operators are allowed to mark cable-only channels "copy-once" as they please, and although some premium channels and on-demand content are marked "copy never", permission for that had to be obtained from the FCC first.

[jman98]

FCC regulations don't permit anything but "copy freely" for over-the-air broadcasts, and the same is true for local channels on cable. Cable operators are allowed to mark cable-only channels "copy-once" as they please, and although some premium channels and on-demand content are marked "copy never", permission for that had to be obtained from the FCC first.

Well, that's what the regulations SAY but it's not hard to find plenty of customer complaints of those "copy freely" broadcasts being accidentally set to "copy never". I am certainly willing to accept that this is done by incompetence rather than by design, but it still happens. Has anybody ever heard of a network or TV provider actually being fined for screwing this up? Because I sure haven't. With no apparent incentive to get it right, everyone just shrugs their shoulders when it happens.

Despite the "copy never" flag it is ridiculously easy to find recordings of such shows on the internet. All that flag does is trip up innocent parties like our orignal poster.

[jagabo]

Cable operators are allowed to mark cable-only channels "copy-once" as they please

I'm pretty sure the FCC says nothing about cable-only channels. The cable company can mark them copy-never if they want. And if other recording devices start cutting into their DVR rental income you can be pretty sure they'll start doing that.

[usually_quiet]

Cable operators are allowed to mark cable-only channels "copy-once" as they please

I'm pretty sure the FCC says nothing about cable-only channels. The cable company can mark them copy-never if they want. And if other recording devices start cutting into their DVR rental income you can be pretty sure they'll start doing that.

Here's a relevant document regarding the FCC's rules on CCI, or what is often called "5C copy protection": http://w2.eff.org/IP/pnp/FCC_PnP_Ruling.pdf Look at "Part D" starting at the bottom of page 29, and continuing onto page 30. It spells out what cable operators are allowed to do. They can't legally go any further than "copy once" for regular cable channels. They have to allow subscribers the opportunity to time-shift, even if no copies can be made of the original recording.

Their own DVRs are not supposed to record anything marked "copy never" either, so if they started applying it willy-nilly, they'd have a lot more very unhappy customers turning in their DVRs.

[jagabo]

Here's a relevant document regarding the FCC's rules on CCI, or what is often called "5C copy protection": http://w2.eff.org/IP/pnp/FCC_PnP_Ruling.pdf Look at "Part D" starting at the bottom of page 29, and continuing onto page 30. It spells out what cable operators are allowed to do. They can't legally go any further than "copy once" for regular cable channels. They have to allow subscribers the opportunity to time-shift, even if no copies can be made of the original recording.

Thanks for the link and clarification. The document does state that copy-once is the most restrictive option for "pay television, non-premium subscription television, and free conditional access delivery transmissions..."

I haven't read the entire document but I wonder how much wiggle room there is in the definitions of those terms. For example, you can't even view most QAM channels without a cable box because they are encrypted, much less record them. Does that make them premium subscriptions and not subject to that copy-once rule?

[usually_quiet]

Here's a relevant document regarding the FCC's rules on CCI, or what is often called "5C copy protection": http://w2.eff.org/IP/pnp/FCC_PnP_Ruling.pdf Look at "Part D" starting at the bottom of page 29, and continuing onto page 30. It spells out what cable operators are allowed to do. They can't legally go any further than "copy once" for regular cable channels. They have to allow subscribers the opportunity to time-shift, even if no copies can be made of the original recording.

Thanks for the link and clarification. The document does state that copy-once is the most restrictive option for "pay television, non-premium subscription television, and free conditional access delivery transmissions..."

I haven't read the entire document but I wonder how much wiggle room there is in the definitions of those terms. For example, you can't even view most QAM channels without a cable box because they are encrypted, much less record them. Does that make them premium subscriptions and not subject to that copy-once rule?

Encrypting a channel doesn't automatically make it premium somehow. Based how the FCC ruling defined non-premium service, to be considered premium, the service can't provide one of the over-the-air broadcast channels, must be sold separately (not as part of a standard tier), and the programs/movies can't be interrupted by commercial advertising. In other words, "premium" means HBO, Cinemax, Showtime and similar.

Encryption isn't considered to be a form of copy protection and different rules are applied to its use. Copy protection used to control what subscribers can do with content they have paid for. Encryption is used to keep non-subscribers from having access to content they haven't paid for. Cable providers are permitted to encrypt everything but locals, although often they don't encrypt the non-local channels in their basic cable service tier.

US law does indeed require that cable subscribers have the opportunity to time-shift anything they have paid to see that isn't "copy never" and be able to use 3rd party devices to do it. I know what you are trying to do here here, but sorry, you can't make a valid case that encryption is illegal by saying it negates your rights.

The FCC regulations regarding CableCARDs made sure the consumer's right to view or time-shift using 3rd party devices is technically upheld. It just isn't a very practical solution for most people. Since CableCARDs are only available in the US, and building a device that can accept them is expensive, there aren't many products that can use them. TiVo, Moxi, and CableCARD PC tuners (when used in conjunction with Windows 7 Media Center) are all the 3rd party CableCARD recording solutions currently available to choose from.

It could be worse. Canada does not require local channels to be unencrypted for digital cable, so there are typically no channels at all available in unencrypted digital form. There is also no CableCARD availability in Canada, which means no recording or viewing of encrypted channels using 3rd party devices.

[jagabo]

I know what you are trying to do here here, but sorry, you can't make a valid case that encryption is illegal by saying it negates your rights.

No, I wasn't hinting that encrypted QAM should be illegal. I was speculating about the cable company using it to claim all those channels are not a part of the standard tier, ie a way for them to claim it's a "premium service". But I guess that's covered in the "can't be interrupted by commercial advertising" and "must be sold separately" clauses.

[dphirschler]

I forget what it's called, but if I initialize the disc in "VR" (?) instead of "video" mode, I can record shows that give me the "copyright" msg. You might want to try that and see if you have any luck with it.

On players that support it that will allow you to record CGMS-A source marked "copy once". The copy will be encrypted and you won't be able to make additional copies of the disc.

When I first got the recorder, I was initializing all my discs that way. I was still able to rip them using DVD Decrypter.


Darryl

[jagabo]

When I first got the recorder, I was initializing all my discs that way. I was still able to rip them using DVD Decrypter.

I have some encrypted DVD-RAM discs from a Panasonic DVD recorder that nothing will copy. I finally resorted to playing them in the DVD recorder and recording the analog output.