PAL to NTSC

[GSK]

I'm trying to convert some video from a PAL DVD source to NTSC, but I have a few problems.

First is the video's resolution. The PAL video I'm working with is in anamorphic widescreen. Will I need to do any sort of scaling/letterboxing so the picture will look all right, both on a 16:9 screen AND a 4:3 one?

Second has to do with the framerate. Now I've burned PAL to NTSC before, and on a CRT screen there's a noticeable stutter because of the lower framerate. And I've seen "ghosting" as a result of resampling the framerate.
HOWEVER, this particular video looks a little too smooth (like it was shot on video instead of film), and I was wondering if I could play with the framerate at all to create a passable "filmizing" effect or if that'd just make the normal stutter worse.

[jagabo]

I'm trying to convert some video from a PAL DVD source to NTSC, but I have a few problems.

First is the video's resolution. The PAL video I'm working with is in anamorphic widescreen. Will I need to do any sort of scaling/letterboxing so the picture will look all right, both on a 16:9 screen AND a 4:3 one?

You have to change the frame size from 720x576 to 720x480. Otherwise the aspect ratio issues are the same as any NTSC disc.

Second has to do with the framerate. Now I've burned PAL to NTSC before, and on a CRT screen there's a noticeable stutter because of the lower framerate. And I've seen "ghosting" as a result of resampling the framerate.

That may be from incorrectly resizing an interlaced video or from a frame rate converter that blends fields/frames.

HOWEVER, this particular video looks a little too smooth (like it was shot on video instead of film), and I was wondering if I could play with the framerate at all to create a passable "filmizing" effect or if that'd just make the normal stutter worse.

It sounds like you have a 25 fps interlaced PAL DVD (50 different fields per second). You can convert that to 30i NTSC DVD to retain most of the smoothness. The technique is a bit convoluted and I don't think many programs will do it correctly. You will probably have to use AviSynth with a script like:

Mpeg2Source("filename.d2v")
AssumeTFF() #or assume BFF, depending on the field order of the source
Yadif(mode=1, order=1) #convert each 720x288 field to a 720x576 frame
BilinearResize(720,480) #standard NTSC DVD frame size
ChangeFPS(59.94) #duplicate every 5th frame
SeparateFields() #split frames into fields
SelectEvery(4,0,3) #pick the first and last of every 4 fields
Weave() #weave fields together into 29.97 fps interlaced frames

Then encode that as interlaced MPEG2.

That will give 5 littler jerks per second. Some people might prefer deinteracing to 25 fps then encoding progressive with 3:2:3:2:2 pulldown. That will judder much like normal 3:2 pulldown of film content.

[GSK]

You have to change the frame size from 720x576 to 720x480. Otherwise the aspect ratio issues are the same as any NTSC disc.

All right, thanks. I was using Avidemux to scale the video, and the resolution only came to 720x432. I ended up using letterboxes to fill it in to 720x480.

That may be from incorrectly resizing an interlaced video or from a frame rate converter that blends fields/frames. It sounds like you have a 25 fps interlaced PAL DVD (50 different fields per second). You can convert that to 30i NTSC DVD to retain most of the smoothness. The technique is a bit convoluted and I don't think many programs will do it correctly.

Hm, RE: the stutter, it WAS my first time trying to burn a PAL video (I don't even remember the program I used). I'm not so great with scripting but like I've mentioned, I've learned to do a surprising amount just with Avidemux. I'm still taking notes on some terms (interlacing/fields), but I've seen the terminology in the GUI and I'll do my best to find where/how to apply it.

But in this particular case I was hoping to maybe REDUCE the fluidity of the source material. I'm pretty sure it was shot on digital video but I'm hoping that maybe playing with the framerate could give the impression it was shot on film (like the filmizing effect that some TV shows use).

[manono]

A picture is worth a thousand words. If you want help with it, post a short ten second sample from the source, one showing steady movement. It's hard to guess at what you have and then explain how best to treat it.

[GSK]

A picture is worth a thousand words. If you want help with it, post a short ten second sample from the source, one showing steady movement. It's hard to guess at what you have and then explain how best to treat it.

Fair enough. Here's a link: http://www.mediafire.com/?3udf42ynk46ctsa

Original:
720x576
25fps

Edit:
720x480
24fps

I brought the framerate DOWN with the Resample filter to 24fps, but I'm clueless whether or not it actually looks convincing as a film effect.

Further from the rescaling, there's some intentional edits to the color levels, too. That's because the source video was really light and had a yellow-green tint over everything.

[poisondeathray]

I can tell you right away without looking at it that "resample" in avidemux is probably not what you want . It changes the framerate but keeps the duration. So if you deinterlaced 50i (assuming it was an interlaced PAL source) => 25p then used "resample" to 24p , that last step will drop a frame and you will get a studder step every 24 frame cycle

The more common approach would be to due a "PAL slowdown" , which is just slowing down 25p to 24p (including the audio) , this way you keep all the frames, but suffer the pitch change in audio

[poisondeathray]

I looked at your uploaded samples, and I do not see an original sample. The "original" has been re-encoded with xvid and exhibits combing.

You need to upload an original, unprocessed sample. You could use DGIndex to mark in/mark out a sample and upload the elementary .m2v video

Also, I know you mentioned you did some color correction, but the black level is way too low in that "edited" sample. If you were to use that for DVD, it will clip a lot of the detail. In short, computer levels are different than what is used for TV/DVD. You need to use a waveform monitor or histogram to ensure you use "legal" levels . It might look "ok" on a PC monitor depending on how you have it setup , but I can assure you it won' t look good on a regular TV setup

[GSK]

Oops, I forgot to uncheck the codecs when I exported.

But I also just realized that I can bring clips over to my TV with my Nintendo and an SD card (which makes the whole "trial and error" easier than if I had to burn the discs first).

Right now I'm playing the video at the original 25fps on my TV set. Compared to the same video from an NTSC disc I bought, it already has the film-look that I wanted to give it. The rest is pretty much just to manipulate the colors until it looks right on my screen.

Thanks for the help, all.

[jagabo]

I would use a smart deinterlacer like Yadif, resize to 720x576, encode as progressive MPEG2 at 25 fps, and add 3:2:3:2:2 pulldown flags with DgPulldown. Alternatively, you could use Yadif and resize, then slow the frame rate down to 23.976 fps and add regular 3:2 pulldown flags. That will give you the jerky film look you're looking for and retain more detail without field blending/blurring.

[manono]

I would use a smart deinterlacer like Yadif, resize to 720x576, encode as progressive MPEG2 at 25 fps, and add 3:2:3:2:2 pulldown flags with DgPulldown. Alternatively, you could use Yadif and resize, then slow the frame rate down to 23.976 fps and add regular 3:2 pulldown flags. That will give you the jerky film look you're looking for and retain more detail without field blending/blurring.

I agree, except I think you mean to say resize to 720x480.

The Clip1Edit.avi is a complete mess. It's a good thing he asked. As pdf mentioned, the black levels are crushed in the Clip1Edit.avi. They're fine in the Clip1Original.avi. Leave them alone.

[jagabo]

I would use a smart deinterlacer like Yadif, resize to 720x576, encode as progressive MPEG2 at 25 fps, and add 3:2:3:2:2 pulldown flags with DgPulldown. Alternatively, you could use Yadif and resize, then slow the frame rate down to 23.976 fps and add regular 3:2 pulldown flags. That will give you the jerky film look you're looking for and retain more detail without field blending/blurring.

I agree, except I think you mean to say resize to 720x480.

Yes!