Recommended upload video format for maximum sound quality on youtube

[waigy]

Hi

I recently started making better quality video and sound recordings of myself playing guitar and singing.

After uploading to youtube the sound is noticeably poorer than it should be.

Obviously my priority is sound quality first, so what is the recommended format and/or bitrate to guarantee the maximum sound quality that youtube can offer?

Here is my latest youtube upload

Here is bitrate viewer results for the video before uploading.



I start with an avi and wave file then export using adobe media encoder as mpeg2
pal, 720x576, 25fps ,lower, quality 4.0
224 kbps, 44.1khz, 16 bit, stereo, mpeg
VBR, 2 pass, min 2.50, target 4.20, max 6.00 mbps

The settings above are intended for fairly small filesize, but decent quality videos that I can keep on my hard drive and view myself (the video quality is not much different from the original AVI and the sound is no different from the original wave).
So I know there's not much chance that these are good settings for uploading directly to youtube.

Cheers

[Bonie81]

video seems Ok in terms of Quality.
224 kbps, 44.1khz, 16 bit, stereo, mpeg ---> You Tube gonna re-encode it to 128 kbps vbr approx.
VBR, 2 pass, min 2.50, target 4.20, max 6.00 mbps ---> You Tube gonna re-encode it to 2000 kbps (max) if it is HD (1920x1080) or less.
pal, 720x576, 25fps ,lower, quality 4.0 ---> To get max quality on You Tube, Convert it to mp4 HD (1980x1080) before upload.


Videos are worth sharing over p2p.

[waigy]

Hi bonie81
Thanks for the quick answer.

The video picture quality (on youtube) is not too bad compared to the original (it's a mini dv 720x576 not HD).
The sound is definitely worse (very high quality guitar, microphone and recording equipment).

I think the 128 kbps vbr that you mention is the problem.
The sound quality (on youtube) does sound like an mp3 that is compressed to 128 or less.
The high frequency sound is badly affected.
I would prefer the sound to stay as close as possible to the original.

Would an mp4 conversion before upload help with the sound quality?

Cheers

[manono]

No, nothing will help. The only thing you can do is make the audio in the best possible quality to begin with (PCM WAV). Then they'll ruin it. You might try upsizing the video to a Hi-Def resolution (960x720) and see if you like the sound of the audio any better. I believe they give hi-def videos slightly better audio.

Either that or upload it to a different site that won't reencode it (Vimeo, if encoded to their specs, I believe).

[waigy]

Thanks manono

I didn't realise I could save a compressed video with PCM WAV sound.

So I should save as an mp4 960 x 720 with PCM WAV sound.

The unfortunate thing about the other websites is I get hardly any views compared to youtube.
My videos on dailymotion sound very good but get about 5 views per year.

[waigy]

I'm still trying out your suggestions just now, but I've just noticed that my video "Where the calm comes" which I uploaded Oct 2009 has very good sound quality.

Here it is


I encoded that video using adobe media encoder, but haven't taken note of the encoding settings I used.

Can I find out those settings using the original video that I uploaded to youtube?

[manono]

224 kbps, 44.1khz, 16 bit, stereo, mpeg

From your first post. What's that? CBR MP2 audio? If so, then your audio was pretty lousy to begin with. The better the quality audio you upload, the better it'll sound after YouTube gets done with it. What kind of audio did you upload for that one that sounds good? You still have that video? Then check out the audio you used in GSpot or MediaInfo and duplicate it.

[waigy]

Thanks manono

I found mediainfo just before you answered.

Unbelievably I have 3 backup versions of my video (the one with good youtube sound), but none of them are the version I uploaded to youtube.

In the meantime I've uploaded a test video which is upsized to 960 x 720 as you suggested.
It is still an mpg but I saved the sound at the maximum 384kbps/48khz(still haven't sussed how to save a compressed vid with PCM WAV).

I know the quality can change for a while after it has been uploaded, but just now the sound is decent when viewed at 720p.
At 480p the sound is sometimes passable and sometimes has a few glitches/jumps with the video going all pixelly and green.
Like this :


At 360p and 240p the sound is not good.

I'll leave it to simmer on a low heat for a while and see if the quality improves, I uploaded it about 45minutes ago.

[waigy]

I'm getting better results with the sound now, but only if played at 480p.

I'm trying a few different codecs/file formats/resolutions etc.

It's taking me an hour to upload my test vids (4minutes long) and I then wait a few hours to make sure it is totally finished processing, would it make any difference to the quality if I upload a shorter vid for testing?

Say 1 minute or 10 seconds even?

[manono]

I don't think so. Just cut a piece out of the longer one for uploading and testing. Use a section that has a complex audio passage.

[waigy]

Quick update.

I've now got good results with sound and video using Bonie81's suggestion of resolution higher than 1920x1080.

Uploaded a test vid at 1970x1440 (aac 320kbps) which plays with decent sound as long as 480p and higher is used.
Definite sound quality degradation at 360p.

It's still frustrating to find loads of videos on youtube with very good sound and video even at 360p.

I'm currently struggling to save an uncompressed avi using adobe media encoder cs4.
I want an avi which has exactly the same video quality as the original avi with the added titles and my final mix wave file as the sound.

If I have this final uncompressed avi, I can easily try different programs for compression (virtualdub/anyvideoconverter etc).

I'm going to try video enhancer to upsize the video before uploading, upsizing in adobe produces a slightly blurry version of the original.

[manono]

Uncompressed produces huge filesizes. Better might be to use a lossless codec. I use Lagarith, others use HuffYUV or others. I don't use any Adobe products, though, so someone else can suggest a better solution than just uncompressed.

You don't really mean 1970x1440, do you? Do you really mean 1920x1440? But I think you'll get the same YouTube results with 1440x1080. Might save some encoding time.

[waigy]

Uncompressed produces huge filesizes. Better might be to use a lossless codec.

I don't mind having a large filesize to begin with for trying out different programs (especially for upsizing). I want to minimise how much coding/encoding I'm doing.

You don't really mean 1970x1440, do you?

Yes 1970x1440, for some strange reason, that size uploaded to youtube almost fills the screen with no borders.

I'm getting all different kinds of distorted results just now, some the totally wrong width/height ratio and some that have areas of black at the sides or top/bottom.

For my uncompressed file I simply want it the same as the original 720x576, so I set everything at that in adobe and it spits out a distorted video.
I'm trying out different pixel aspect ratios just now, I'm sure I'll eventually get it (maybe some time this week) if I try every possible combination of settings.

(edit) Just sussed it, save using dvpal settings.

[manono]

For my uncompressed file I simply want it the same as the original 720x576...

No you don't since 720x576 is a 1.25:1 ratio and your videos are meant to be displayed at either 1.33:1 or 1.78:1, depending on whether your original file has a 4:3 or a 16:9 DAR. The ones you showed me earlier are 1.33:1 meaning some 4 to 3 ratio such as 640x480, 1440x1080, or other. Either that or upload them at 720x576 or similar ratio resolution and set the DAR in your tag, which you haven't done so far. yt:stretch=4:3 will do it:

http://www.google.com/support/youtube/bin/answer.py?hl=en&answer=146402

And what do you care whether or not your video fills the widescreen YouTube player screen. If they're 1.33:1, then there should be black bars on the sides unless you either shoot in widescreen to begin with, or you crop the top and bottom of your videos to make them widescreen. Anything else makes them play with the wrong aspect ratio, as apparently you've discovered.

I want to minimise how much coding/encoding I'm doing.

Saving a video as lossless rather than uncompressed doesn't affect the amount of encoding you'll do. It just gives you a somewhat smaller size. But if you have the hard drive space, then OK. Then the only problem you might encounter is quality degradation from multiple colorspace changes, something avoidable by choosing the correct setting in a lossless codec.

Yes 1970x1440, for some strange reason, that size uploaded to youtube almost fills the screen with no borders.

You'd have to show me for me to believe that.

[waigy]

http://www.google.com/support/youtube/bin/answer.py?hl=en&answer=146402

Thanks for that, never new about it.

You'd have to show me for me to believe that.

I'm viewing on a 21" monitor (not widescreen) at 1600x1200.
As I said before, the aspect ratio in this video was probably screwed up before uploading (probably something like pal output using ntsc pixel size), hence the unusual resolution.
Adobe gives you an input and output preview before saving, I adjusted the output resolution to get rid of any borders and ended up with 1970x1440.

I'm getting the upsized video (1440x1080 as you suggested) looking very good (pretty much the same as the original) using video enhancer.
Just trying to find a good codec setting to get the filesize to around 200mb (or less) for uploading.

[manono]

You said the video filled the YouTube screen, not your monitor screen. At least that's how I read what you wrote. The YouTube screen is widescreen and your videos are 'fullscreen'.

[waigy]

I've started getting results that I'm reasonably happy with, though it still could be better.

I'm exporting the video from adobe premiere with the added titles and my final mix wave file as the sound.
Saving it using DVpal settings.
Video : 720x576, 25fps ,lower, aspect D1/DVPAL (1.0940), render at maximum depth, 24bit.
Audio : 16 bit, stereo, 44100

This gives me a fully edited lossless video for processing in any other programs.

Then upsizing to 1440x1080 using video enhancer and saving with these settings.
Video : x264/mpeg-4 AVC codec single pass - bitrate based (abr) average bitrate 5012
audio : PCM 354 kbps
I don't have the option in video enhancer to save the sound as aac which would probably be better as youtube uses aac.


For some reason the sound is bad at 360p (listen at 12 seconds), it sounds better at 240p than 360p.
The sound at 480p and up are all decent enough.


The video could do with being de-interlaced, but my first trials with video enhancer's deinterlace filter are causing bad pixelling.
I might experiment with that more at a later date.

I've spent a massive amount of time on this, so I'm making a compromise between getting perfect results and wasting time.

1 minute test clip using the settings stated above.

manono, do I need to add formatting tags to this during upload?

[manono]

Well, I thought you had to add the tag, but I downloaded the 480p one and it's 640x480, so I guess they're doing a proper resize on MPEGs these days. They didn't used to do that. I guess I was wrong and in this case, at least, you don't need to add the tag.

[waigy]

Hi manono

What site/program are you using to download the clips?

[manono]

I was using VideoCacheView.

[k.]

For some reason in recently uploaded videos audio quality is better at 360p than 480p.

360p = 115-128 kbps
480p = 90-96 kbps

[waigy]

Here's the audio details of the downloaded clips (my 1 minute long test vid)

240p :
Format : MPEG Audio
Format version : Version 2
Format profile : Layer 3
Mode : Joint stereo
Mode extension : MS Stereo
Bit rate mode : Constant
Bit rate : 8 000 bps
Channel(s) : 2 channels
Sampling rate : 22.05 KHz
Bit depth : 16 bits
Stream size : 61.5 KiB (3%)

360p :
Format : AAC
Format version : Version 4
Format profile : LC
Format settings, SBR : Yes
Format settings, PS : No
Bit rate : 54.1 Kbps
Channel(s) : 2 channels
Channel positions : Front: L R
Sampling rate : 44.1 KHz
Bit depth : 16 bits
Stream size : 416 KiB (11%)

480p :
Format : AAC
Format version : Version 4
Format profile : LC
Format settings, SBR : No
Bit rate : 96.7 Kbps
Channel(s) : 2 channels
Channel positions : Front: L R
Sampling rate : 44.1 KHz
Bit depth : 16 bits
Stream size : 744 KiB (11%)

720p :
ID : 2
Format : AAC
Format version : Version 4
Format profile : LC
Format settings, SBR : No
Codec ID : 40
Bit rate mode : Variable
Bit rate : 128 Kbps
Maximum bit rate : 199 Kbps
Channel(s) : 2 channels
Channel positions : Front: L R
Sampling rate : 44.1 KHz
Stream size : 983 KiB (6%)


1080p :
ID : 2
Format : AAC
Format version : Version 4
Format profile : LC
Format settings, SBR : No
Codec ID : 40
Bit rate mode : Variable
Bit rate : 128 Kbps
Maximum bit rate : 199 Kbps
Channel(s) : 2 channels
Channel positions : Front: L R
Sampling rate : 44.1 KHz
Stream size : 983 KiB (10%)


I don't have much experience with aac, I gather the same bitrate in aac is higher quality than the same bitrate in mp3.
I reckon the equivalent of 128 kbps mp3 sound would be ok for me (preferably higher), but going lower than that really hits the high frequency detail.

Also looking at the stream size percentage, if I decrease the bitrate of my video before upload, will youtube give a higher percentage to the audio?
It mentions a maximum bitrate of 199 kbps (720p & 1080p), should I try reducing my video bitrate till I acheive 199 kbps?

[waigy]

Also looking at the stream size percentage, if I decrease the bitrate of my video before upload, will youtube give a higher percentage to the audio?
It mentions a maximum bitrate of 199 kbps (720p & 1080p), should I try reducing my video bitrate till I acheive 199 kbps?

Probably should have wrote 192kbps there instead of 199kbps.

Just uploaded and downloaded a 1 minute test vid at half the video bitrate 2507kbps.
Then one at 279kbps (for a laugh)
Not much difference in video quality compared to the originals (at high def) and the only difference in the sound details is the stream percentage :
360p was 11% @ 5017kbps 14%@ 2507kbps 20%@279kbps
1080p was 10% @ 5017kbps 4%@ 2507kbps 4%@279kbps

Every other detail of the sound was exactly the same for each resolution ie. bitrate/frequency used etc.

So changing the video birate didn't affect the sound.

[waigy]

I've been uploading 10 second clips with lots of different codec settings.
Just this minute managed to upload a version with no sound recompression during upsizing.
(Tried earlier and youtube failed to process it)

It's the best results I've got overall.
Comparing my best results for uploading aac@320kbps to pcm@1141.2kbps
The only differences are the bit rate of the downloaded vids.

240p
aac 8000bps pcm 59kbps

360p
aac 54.1kbps pcm 95.8kbps

480p
aac 96.7kbps pcm 96.5kbps

720p
aac 128kbps pcm 127kbps

1080p
aac 128kbps pcm 127kbps

So the biggest difference is the 360p, the default resolution, and the setting that has sounded bad in all my trials so far.

I'm going to go for pcm on the audio, but what is a good suggested bitrate for the video?
Also the video compression settings in my x264 config are a mystery to me eg. single pass bitrate based abr/cqp/crf multipass.
Should I just go for a certain filesize for speed of upload?
Between 100mb and 150mb seems an ok size for me to upload.

[waigy]

Just uploaded a version that I'm happy enough with for now, but I'll keep researching the sound quality issue as I re-upload my other vids.

This result is starting with a 799mb dvpal video exported from adobe premiere with the titles added and PCM wav 1411kbps 44100khz audio.
Then into a great wee program called Ripbot264

All default settings except :
save as mkv
CRF 18
(in properties) resize to 1440x1080
deinterlace BFF -> 25fps
denoise Film
Colours use TV -> PC conversion

The 179mb was processed very quickly by youtube.

Video enhancer made a better job of the upsizing, but so far I haven't got good results with it's deinterlacing filters (will keep experimenting).
Both 720p and 1080p audio always ended up at 128kbps during all my test uploads with different codecs.
360p was either 54kbps or 100kbps, with 54kbps sounding bad.

[Bonie81]

I was reading the survey on "The most viewed video format" on Youtube in a one of the prominent video mag. According to the result of the poll and survey, Following is the video format for the most viewed (well commented) videos for uploading to youtube in order to get maximum positive response.

1) YouTube The Best Video (1080p HD) General Specifications:

Complete name : YouTube The Best Video.mp4
Format : MP4

Video
Format : AVC
Format/Info : Advanced Video Codec
Bit rate mode : Variable
Bit rate : 5 500 Kbps
Width : 1 920 pixels
Height : 1 080 pixels
Display aspect ratio : 16:9
Frame rate mode : Constant
Frame rate : 29.970 fps
Scan type : Progressive

Audio
Format : AAC
Format/Info : Advanced Audio Codec
Bit rate mode : Constant
Bit rate : 256 Kbps
Channel(s) : 2 channels
Channel positions : Front: L R
Sampling rate : 44.1 KHz


2) YouTube The Best Video (720p HD) General Specifications:

Complete name : YouTube The Best Video.mp4
Format : MP4

Video
Format : AVC
Format/Info : Advanced Video Codec
Bit rate mode : Variable
Bit rate : 2400 Kbps
Width : 1 280 pixels
Height : 720 pixels
Display aspect ratio : 16:9
Frame rate mode : Constant
Frame rate : 29.970 fps
Scan type : Progressive

Audio
Format : AAC
Format/Info : Advanced Audio Codec
Bit rate mode : Constant
Bit rate : 256 Kbps
Channel(s) : 2 channels
Channel positions : Front: L R
Sampling rate : 44.1 KHz