3d questions

[alucard2050]

Several years ago I had purchased a pair of glasses that when plugged into my computer would simulate the 3d effect that todays 3d is producing. It was not as intense of an effect but gave the effect none the less on just a normal computer monitor. I just dont understand it all yet and the guys at best buy tell me what I already know about shutter, left eye, and right eye. So heres my questions....

1. What is Real3d? Does this not allow 1 projector to show the 3d video instead of 2? Is this what theaters are using?
2. Why the special tv to "sync" the glasses with? I dont see batteries or a cord plugged into my glasses when I see a movie in the at the theater.
3. Why can a video not be encoded to play as a "fuzzy picture" that gives the 3d effect. Why does the TV have to split the image? I dont see why the red and green works for 3d yet full color does not.
4. Anyone know what glasses I am talking about from several years ago? They were powered I think through USB and the video software ran the movie or image and the built in shutter in the glasses did the rest.

Thanks for anyone who can help me understand this......

[guns1inger]

Cinema's use Polarised 3D, which is cheaper for the consumer because it uses passive glasses (i.e. no need for batteries, wireless etc). This works for projection, but doesn't work for TV. For TV each image is displayed twice - once for each eye, and each image is slightly offset to create the 3D illusion - and special glasses are required to actually block the image you aren't supposed to see. These 'shutter' glasses use LCD screens and alternate between black and clear in sync with your TV screen. The new system is just a refinement on the system you used to have years ago. It is faster, lighter, and works wirelessly instead of having to be tethered to your TV.

The old red/green system called Anaglyph works in a similar but inferior way to polarised 3D. Instead of projecting imaged polarised differently to match the different lenses in the glasses, anaglyph tints one eye red and one blue. The coloured lenses in the glasses filter the image that the eye sees, so each eye sees a slightly different image. This process introduces a number of problems, including the obvious effect it has on the colours of the image, and a general lack of clarity to the over all effect.

[Des]

I've always been a fan of VISDEP 3D myself.
http://www.scuffletown.org/?p=2815

Shame it doesn't sell new TV sets.

--dES

[edDV]

...
3. Why can a video not be encoded to play as a "fuzzy picture" that gives the 3d effect. Why does the TV have to split the image? ...

That is what normal movies do. They use narrow depth of field lenses to separate primary action (in focus) from the background (out of focus). This standard 24p procedure.

If this all you want, any DVD will do.

[Cornucopia]

Several years ago I had purchased a pair of glasses that when plugged into my computer would simulate the 3d effect that todays 3d is producing. It was not as intense of an effect but gave the effect none the less on just a normal computer monitor. I just dont understand it all yet and the guys at best buy tell me what I already know about shutter, left eye, and right eye. So heres my questions....

1. What is Real3d? Does this not allow 1 projector to show the 3d video instead of 2? Is this what theaters are using?
2. Why the special tv to "sync" the glasses with? I dont see batteries or a cord plugged into my glasses when I see a movie in the at the theater.
3. Why can a video not be encoded to play as a "fuzzy picture" that gives the 3d effect. Why does the TV have to split the image? I dont see why the red and green works for 3d yet full color does not.
4. Anyone know what glasses I am talking about from several years ago? They were powered I think through USB and the video software ran the movie or image and the built in shutter in the glasses did the rest.

Thanks for anyone who can help me understand this......

1. Real3D or RealD uses 1 projector, 1 "active" polarizing switcher at the projector lens, 1 polarization-retaining "silver" screen, and polarizing glasses filters (in this case, circular-polarizing). BTW, "passive" means it doesn't have working parts, they're just filters. This includes Barrier, Anaglyph, Infitec/Dolby, and Polarizing. "Active" has working parts (and something to power them), and need to sync to a source. So RealD is actually a combination of active + passive (the switcher is active, the glasses are passive).

2. The TV doesn't have to be the sync source, but SOMETHING needs to be when active L.C. Shutterglasses are used. If you're using a HTPC, you can use the vid card to drive a little infrared emitter box. The new TVs that are "3D" or "3D-ready" just incorporate an infrard emitter within the TV, so that the sync is based off the signal the TV gets and ensures the sync is spot-on. Most ALL consumer TVs that are 3d capable use active technology (there are a few exceptions). Projectors can be one or the other.

The whole thing about Active & Pasive is about keeping L + R views separate throughout the recording & playback chain. You don't want bleed-through (aka CROSSTALK). Active LC shutterglasses do it by alternating views in time and filtering out the wrong eye in sync, polarizers do it by creating and maintaining separate angles/phases of polarization (which self-filter if you have a beginning/projector polarizer and an ending/glasses polarizer), anaglyph (and Infitec/Dolby) does it by using separate & non-overlapping color frequency bands, barrier methods do it through mirrors and/or tunnels (viewmaster), the cross-eye method does it through non-overlapping placement and focus, etc...

3. "Fuzzy picture"? Maybe you don't see the difference, but most people should be able to tell the difference between "fake 3D" and REAL 3D (as long as it's a good A/B comparison). There are a number of 3D cues an image can supply to the brain, many of which can still be supplied by a 2D image, but NONE of them are as powerful as Binocular Parallax Disparity, which is the element that stereo3D uses to be convincing. Don't be fooled by things like "ChromaDepth" or the "Pulfrich Illusion". They PALE in comparison to the real deal.

4. Not sure which brand. There have been a number of models with slightly different techniques out there for a while now. (I've got eDimensional's, and they sound similar to what you mention, though not with USB). That's one reason that CE companies are trying to standardize, so there won't be incompatibilities. They're still not fully there yet...

BTW, Visdep 3D is just another cute 2D effect. Helpful if you've ONLY got a 2D playback chain, but like I said in #3, not the real deal. It's also headache inducing after a short while, unlike WELL PRODUCED and DESIGNED active or passive-polarized systems.

Scott

[alucard2050]

OMG..Alot of words I dont understand yet...lol....I kind of get it and in time will learn more. I guess you can say I am stubborn for 3d but my current setup is 4k. New tv. Glasses id have to get about 8 pairs for company. My ps3 will do 3d so I dont need a new blu-ray player. I am unsure about my reciever. They said it has to be 3d compatable. pioneer Elite which will be a grand alone if its not..........It is amazing how regular HDTV's have come down in price now that 3d is making its way in.........Thanks for the help.................

[edDV]

OMG..Alot of words I dont understand yet...lol....I kind of get it and in time will learn more. I guess you can say I am stubborn for 3d but my current setup is 4k. New tv. Glasses id have to get about 8 pairs for company. My ps3 will do 3d so I dont need a new blu-ray player. I am unsure about my reciever. They said it has to be 3d compatable. pioneer Elite which will be a grand alone if its not..........It is amazing how regular HDTV's have come down in price now that 3d is making its way in.........Thanks for the help.................

Yes you have a lot to learn but is there a question there?

Eight viewers at one time is going to be very expensive unless you can rent the glasses (a business opportunity).

You don't need Pioneer Elite for audio. Nothing is different for audio.

[alucard2050]

I guess I am curious now about the eDimensional glasses....this is pretty much I had years ago...I play a blu-ray through my PC drive to my 65" HDTV via HDMI....Using these glasses and/or running the extra software will it create a 3d video that I can watch from 15 ft away from my TV? I understand it wont be like what the "new" technology is but an interesting effect would be a step closer.......

[alucard2050]

I run my HDMI from Satelitte and from my PC through my Pioneer. The guys at best buy said the reciever had to be compatible also...Something to do with the HDMI signal...

[guns1inger]

Full 1080p 3D requires HDMI 1.4. HDMI 1.3 can do 3D at 1080i (hence the PS3 being a viable 3D player)

[Cornucopia]

guns1inger is correct about 1.4 in the HDMI spec. However, PS3s still do not YET do 3D movies. They can do 720p 3d GAMES (since April 2010). The 3D movies feature is coming, but hasn't been announced a timeline. For full compatibility-sake, I'd get a BD player that already explicitly supports 3D. I'm liking the Panasonic model in particular, as it has 2 HDMI outputs - one a v1.4 to support 1080p and one a v1.3 output to support most current AV Recievers. That way, you don't have to also reinvest in a brand new reciever.

edDV, unless the reciever is v1.4 capable (or supports FULL passthrough, or can have its EDID modified), it will BLOCK the highest quality video from passing through, so yes it is important. That's why I like the Panasonic. It gets around that stupid requirement.

alucard2050, you didn't say what HDTV you have. That can make a BIG difference...

eDimensional glasses supposedly aren't rated for a short enough transition time (between Open + Closed) to be compatible with many of the new HDTVs that utilized 3D via 120Hz alternating frames. The nVidea 3Dvision glasses are supposedly much faster (and more $$$).

What WOULD be good for a large group (15 you say?) would be to buy an Infocus DepthQ projector (their best currently is 720p, though) and a DepthQ Modulator filter, along with a Steward silver screen. Then you could use regular passive glasses (even the free RealD ones you get at the theatre). Basically, what you are doing is recreating the setup used in theatres (the only difference being the size of the screen and the framerate+resolution of the projector).

High quality 3D isn't cheap any way you look at it. If you want standard quality 3D, use an HTPC with Stereoscopic player and output interlaced to your TV using your eDimensional glasses. If you want cheaper than that, use Anaglyph (but hopefully not).

Scott

[edDV]

...
edDV, unless the reciever is v1.4 capable (or supports FULL passthrough, or can have its EDID modified), it will BLOCK the highest quality video from passing through, so yes it is important. That's why I like the Panasonic. It gets around that stupid requirement...

Right. Or you can avoid the cost of a new audio receiver by direct HDMI 1.4 connection to the 3D HDTV while sending the HDMI 1.3 to the receiver (for audio stripping).

[Cornucopia]

Yeah, but I don't know of many TVs that have HDMI passthrough. Or were you meaning using an HDMI splitter box (not cheap either) to go dual path?

Scott

[edDV]

Yeah, but I don't know of many TVs that have HDMI passthrough. Or were you meaning using an HDMI splitter box (not cheap either) to go dual path?

Scott

The latter if the 3D Blu-Ray player has only one HDMI out. I understand the new ones will be like the Panasonic with dual HDMI out (one for 3D HDTV and one for audio receiver).

New high end receivers will have the HDMI 1.4 pass-thru+audio stripping.

[yoda313]

(one for 3D HDTV and one for audio receiver).

I don't mean to side track the topic too much but wouldn't it be simpler to simply use fiber optic or digital coax for audio instead of two hdmi outs?

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Come to think of it you can't do dts master audio or dolby true hd over fiber optic. Hence the need for hdmi audio. Yep answered my own question.

I forget people do have newer audio receivers than I have. I make do with "old fashioned' 5.1 from my ps3.......

[guns1inger]

This news article suggests that the PS3 update will be released in September 2010, and will bring full HDMI 1.4 compliance as well.

[edDV]

(one for 3D HDTV and one for audio receiver).

I don't mean to side track the topic too much but wouldn't it be simpler to simply use fiber optic or digital coax for audio instead of two hdmi outs?

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Come to think of it you can't do dts master audio or dolby true hd over fiber optic. Hence the need for hdmi audio. Yep answered my own question.

I forget people do have newer audio receivers than I have. I make do with "old fashioned' 5.1 from my ps3.......

Yes, plus their goal is to get rid of any analog outputs which can't be encrypted. This would force everyone to junk their existing receivers.