Can I get VOB to smaller file size with no loss of quality?

[Joolz2020]

Can't seem to get a clear answer to the above, just lots of good advice about compressing with a compromise on quality.

I want to play files on my WD TV HD Media Player, so loss of quality is unacceptable. If I can't reduce the VOB file size, I'll just buy another TB of storage.

Downloaded HandBrake and StaxRip and set the quality to 100% for various files, although the various guides seem to frown on this.

Handbrake increased file size, and the file doesn't play.

StaxRip reduce 1 file to 25% of VOB size and another to 60%. I'd be happy with 60% and couldn't see any quality problems on playback, but when I used the WD media player to jump thru a 30 min program I lost A/V sync which is not acceptable.

Other attempts have produced a file which was 15% of original but WD media player 10 minute jump button wouldn't do anything.

I just want to get all I can on my 1TB disk, before splashing out on a second.

Thanks in advance and sorry this is a bit confused.

[jagabo]

You can't get a smaller file with absolutely no loss of quality. But you can get a smaller size with a barely noticeable loss. Try Xvid4Psp. Use MKV as the container, set Video to x264 Q21 Turbo, set Audio to Copy. That will probably shrink your VOB to half or less its current size.

[edDV]

Trade off is it will no longer meet DVD playback spec.

[jagabo]

It should work fine a WDTV, his target player.

[Joolz2020]

Thanks. Good to know for sure you can't reduce file size without some loss of quality.

Tried Xvid4PSP with settings as advised on a 3 min music video. File size reduced only slightly (to about 90%) - is this to be expected, ie might I see better reduction on a larger file?

Video quality looks good. If you can't see the difference but the file size is halved, I reckon that's a pretty good trade-off.

Despite using "copy" for audio, there is no sound. The WDTV says the audio is unknown/unsupported, ALShow on my Win7 netbook seems to say there is no audio channel, and the DivX player on my WinXP PC plays static.

Help!!!

[jagabo]

Thanks. Good to know for sure you can't reduce file size without some loss of quality.

If your video was uncompressed then you could use lossless compression to reduce the size. But a VOB file is already highly compressed with a lossy codec (MPEG 2). To compress it more requires that it be decompressed then compressed again with another lossy codec. So the quality can only get worse.

Tried Xvid4PSP with settings as advised on a 3 min music video. File size reduced only slightly (to about 90%) - is this to be expected, ie might I see better reduction on a larger file?

Was that a VOB file or something else? Compressing a VOB file with h.264 (x264) at CRF 21 normally give much more than 10 percent compression. Something like an Xvid AVI may not compress much with CRF 21.

Note that CRF is a constant quality encoding. You are telling the encoder what quality (relative to the source) you want. The file will turn out whatever size is necessary to achieve that quality.

Despite using "copy" for audio, there is no sound. The WDTV says the audio is unknown/unsupported, ALShow on my Win7 netbook seems to say there is no audio channel, and the DivX player on my WinXP PC plays static.

Again, did you start with a VOB file? I suspect not. Use a program like MediaInfo to check your source and your compressed file to determine exactly what you have.

[Joolz2020]

It was a VOB file. Gonna try a different file now - same VOB movie that went to 25% with StaxRip.

BTW it's Q21 HQ I'm using, not CRF21.

[jagabo]

BTW it's Q21 HQ I'm using, not CRF21.

Xvid4Psp uses CRF encoding by default with its "Q" modes. CRF is constant quality encoding in a visual sense. x264 also supports CQP (constant quantizer) which is constant quality in a more mathematical sense. CRF gives smaller files. The different Turbo/HQ/Extreme/etc settings determine how much time the encoder spends on looking for ways to compress the video more. The more time it spends the smaller the resulting file will be (the quality will be the same). But you get vastly diminishing returns as it takes longer and longer.

[Joolz2020]

The 3.7Gb movie has gone down to 802Mb and the DivX player at least has the audio and the video looks good. Will try it on the WDTV later.

Encoding took all night, but was slowed by a virus scan - said 4 hours when I pressed start, which I assume is above right.

Thanks.

[jagabo]

You could try Q21 Turbo instead of Q21 HQ. That would encode faster but give a bigger file with the same visual quality. You can also try a lower quantizer (higher quality, larger file size) by selecting a Q18 preset, or by selecting a Q21 preset, pressing the E button to the right, and changing the quantizer. If you look closely at enlarged still frames encoded at Q21 and Q18 you'll see differences. But at normal playback speed you won't really notice.

[Joolz2020]

Checking the MKV vs the VOB I can see some differences, so I've gone to Q18 as suggested and also selected Super HQ. 36 hours until it finishes!

[TBoneit]

If you have the WD live (plus) for example with the ethernet port on the back then ...............

I see 1Tb USB WD or Seagate all the time on sale for $99 USB2

Myself I have the plus hooked up to the Internet through a router for netflix, a 500Gb & a 1Tb through USB and another 1Tb NAsShooked up to the 10/100 switch. With two more free ports I can add two more NAS storage units and when the computer is on that too.

To put it another way what with capturing video at 1080i and not wanting to degrade it I use a fair amount of storage. OTOH I could convert it to MKV or MP4, and save space at the cost of wear and tear on the computer and the power usage expense for the computer. The core i7 alone uses over 100 watts electric not counting the video card which uses significant amounts or it wouldn't need a extra power lead and large fan. Add in drives, motherboard and memory power usage and not shrinking the files most likely pays for a external in electric savings.

YMMV

[Joolz2020]

I don't have the WD live so I'm restricted to what I can connect to the 2 USB ports, or I have to get off my behind to swap drives (not a hardship when the VOBs on a 1TB is a few hundred movies I think).

I think I will be off to get another 1TB disk drive, unless they now make 'em bigger!

[jagabo]

I think I will be off to get another 1TB disk drive, unless they now make 'em bigger!

3TB: http://www.anandtech.com/show/3858/the-worlds-first-3tb-hdd-seagate-goflex-desk-3tb-review

[edDV]

I think I will be off to get another 1TB disk drive, unless they now make 'em bigger!

3TB: http://www.anandtech.com/show/3858/the-worlds-first-3tb-hdd-seagate-goflex-desk-3tb-review

Prices are coming down. Last week I bought a 2TB Hitachi external drive for $109 at Frys.

[jagabo]

Yeah, the 3TB drive will be priced at a premium since it's the first on the market, it's external, and it has USB 3. 2TB is the sweet spot now.

[Joolz2020]

Updating on my 36 hour conversion, it still said 36 hours remaining 24 hours later! Not sure if it had frozen or what, but I guess that experiment is over. Based on the progress, I think it was going to still make quite a small file, about 25% of original.

I guess the question I should originally have asked is "How do iTunes do it?" I can see they use H.264, and they seem (on limited info) to achieve about an hour per Gb - roughly 50% of my VOB. Maybe this is what I want - I wonder do I have to encode for 24+ hours to get the right result (no perceivable quality loss, half file size) which is fine for mass distribution like iTunes, but to make one personal copy a somewhat questionable endeavour.

And, slightly off-topic(!) can you daisy-chain hard disks on the WDTV (eg using a USB hub)?

Thanks to all.

[edDV]

Updating on my 36 hour conversion, it still said 36 hours remaining 24 hours later! Not sure if it had frozen or what, but I guess that experiment is over. Based on the progress, I think it was going to still make quite a small file, about 25% of original.

I guess the question I should originally have asked is "How do iTunes do it?" I can see they use H.264, and they seem (on limited info) to achieve about an hour per Gb - roughly 50% of my VOB. Maybe this is what I want - I wonder do I have to encode for 24+ hours to get the right result (no perceivable quality loss, half file size) which is fine for mass distribution like iTunes, but to make one personal copy a somewhat questionable endeavour.

And, slightly off-topic(!) can you daisy-chain hard disks on the WDTV (eg using a USB hub)?

Thanks to all.

With hard drive prices dropping this fast, I just don't see spending all this time re-encoding DVD to h.264. Just slap a 2 TB drive (or more) on your WDTV or network.