Sony HDR-XR500 - Losing quality during the export process

[amnono]

Hello,

I have a problem with my Sony HDR-XR500 which I have no idea how to solve and thats why I need your help.

Im trying to make a simple edit to my movies - cut 2 parts of a movie and unite them into one movie. I tried each of the export formats available in Adobe Premiere CS4 and also in Song Vegas Pro and everytime the quality gets damaged. I also can notice that the file size is reduced as well. for example: from 250 MB to 160 MB. maybe there is some kind of unwanted compressing process, I dont know. the thing is I want to quality to be remained the same as the camera gave. it should be a basic and simple thing to do probably because I only need to the basic features of these program minwhile.

the movies im trying to edit are SD and not HD and they are in MPG format. (I guess its MPEG2 in the program...)

I have a Laptop - Dell Inspiron 1545 - Core 2 duo T6600 @ 2.2GH with 2 GB RAM and and integrated intel graphics card, running Windows 7 - might be the prob?...

Thanks a lot for your time and help,

Amnon

[aedipuss]

use mediainfo and post the text output of one of your source files. mpeg-2, but is it dvd spec mpeg-2? and which versions of vegas and pp are you using?

[edDV]

Which version Vegas Pro?

For HD, Vegas Pro9 has a native AVCHD project template and an AVCHD export (under Sony AVC)

For HD, Premiere CS4 will export Blu-Ray MPeg2 but not AVCHD.

For SD, the HDR-XR500 records MPeg2 per the spec sheet but it isn't clear what the bit rate is. Mediainfo will tell us.

[amnono]

Hi,

The versions are: Sony Vegas Pro 9.0c (Build 896)
Adobe Premiere CS4 Version 4.0.0 (314 MC...)

I downloaded mediainfo as you told me and the output from Sony Vegas after exporting (rendering) is:

General
Complete name : C:\test\SonyOutput.mpg
Format : MPEG-PS
File size : 168 MiB
Duration : 3mn 34s
Overall bit rate : 6 585 Kbps
Video
ID : 224 (0xE0)
Format : MPEG Video
Format version : Version 2
Format profile : Main@Main
Format settings, BVOP : Yes
Format settings, Matrix : Default
Format settings, GOP : M=3, N=12
Duration : 3mn 34s
Bit rate mode : Variable
Bit rate : 6 005 Kbps
Nominal bit rate : 9 500 Kbps
Width : 720 pixels
Height : 576 pixels
Display aspect ratio : 16:9
Frame rate : 25.000 fps
Standard : PAL
Color space : YUV
Chroma subsampling : 4:2:0
Bit depth : 8 bits
Scan type : Interlaced
Scan order : Bottom Field First
Bits/(Pixel*Frame) : 0.579
Stream size : 153 MiB (91%)
Audio
ID : 192 (0xC0)
Format : MPEG Audio
Format version : Version 1
Format profile : Layer 1
Duration : 3mn 34s
Bit rate mode : Constant
Bit rate : 448 Kbps
Channel(s) : 2 channels
Sampling rate : 48.0 KHz
Stream size : 11.4 MiB (7%)
Menu

this is the output of the original file (the imported file) from Sony Vegas as well:

General
Complete name : C:\07-MizadHamackhelot.MPG
Format : MPEG-PS
File size : 247 MiB
Duration : 3mn 37s
Overall bit rate : 9 526 Kbps
Video
ID : 224 (0xE0)
Format : MPEG Video
Format version : Version 2
Format profile : Main@Main
Format settings, BVOP : Yes
Format settings, Matrix : Default
Format settings, GOP : M=3, N=12
Duration : 3mn 37s
Bit rate mode : Variable
Bit rate : 9 100 Kbps
Width : 720 pixels
Height : 576 pixels
Display aspect ratio : 16:9
Frame rate : 25.000 fps
Standard : PAL
Color space : YUV
Chroma subsampling : 4:2:0
Bit depth : 8 bits
Scan type : Interlaced
Scan order : Top Field First
Bits/(Pixel*Frame) : 0.878
Stream size : 231 MiB (93%)
Audio
ID : 128 (0x80)
Format : AC-3
Format/Info : Audio Coding 3
Mode extension : CM (complete main)
Duration : 3mn 37s
Bit rate mode : Constant
Bit rate : 448 Kbps
Channel(s) : 6 channels
Channel positions : Front: L C R, Side: L R, LFE
Sampling rate : 48.0 KHz
Bit depth : 16 bits
Video delay : -112ms
Stream size : 11.6 MiB (5%)
Menu

It seems to be different. what do I need to do inorder to make the same? (with Sony)

thanks a lot for the quick answer,

Amnon

[aedipuss]

the output file has a lower bitrate that in itself will make the file smaller and reduce quality a bit. also there's a field order mismatch. keep the output top field first. the other change is going from the source ac-3 6ch audio to 2 ch mpeg audio.

[poisondeathray]

Im trying to make a simple edit to my movies - cut 2 parts of a movie and unite them into one movie.

Vegas and premiere are overkill for this task, and re-encode the video


Use mpg2cut2 , videoredo or womble mpeg dvd . No re-encoding = no quality loss


mpg2cut2 will only cut on keyframes


Videoredo & womble are frame accurate and only re-encode the few frames around the cutsite if the cut wasn't on a keyframe. The rest is passed through untouched same as original

[edDV]

I agree with both replies above. The 9100 Kbps (average) input variable bit rate is near the top acceptable for DVD. It will allow about an hour per DVDR-5 disc.

If you want to use Vegas, you would set the project template = input video = "Render As" MPeg2 to exactly match on all video specs. It may "smart render" if you do it right. The preview window will say "No Recode Necessary" if you get it right.

For Audio, you would need to first install the AC-3 codec from the DVD Architect install disc and set a 5.1 channel edit project. Otherwise it will convert to 2 channel mp2 or AC-3. The audio will recode regardless but this won't affect the video settings.

As said, this is overkill for a cuts only project.

[amnono]

Thanks a lot for your quick help. mpg2cut2 does the job and keeps the quality as the source video file.

Just couple of questions about this program:

1. How do I reach a specific time point of the whole movie (and frame)?
2. After creating one clip, how do I play the clip only?
3. If I have more than one clip, how I suppose to focus on one of them?
4. Is it possible to get the chosen clip information: beginning/end time, duration?

Amnon

[poisondeathray]

1. How do I reach a specific time point of the whole movie (and frame)?
2. After creating one clip, how do I play the clip only?
3. If I have more than one clip, how I suppose to focus on one of them?
4. Is it possible to get the chosen clip information: beginning/end time, duration?

Move the slider to approximately where you want to go. You can see the time in the display as well. Remember this isn't frame accurate - it can only cut on keyframes

When you get to the point, use the "<" , and ">" buttons to navigate to the next nearest keyframe, use "[" and "]" to mark your in/out points

Then file=>save this clip

All this does is copy that section marked by the in/out point in question. It's non-destructive (the original isn't overwritten)

Once you have your clips you can use file=>append to join them. Remember it's not frame accurate (cuts are rough). For frame accuracy you need one of the other programs mentioned above (smart rendering only encodes a few frames where you append)

edDV is right, sony vegas is supposed to smart render mpeg2 as well , if you have it set up properly.