Youtube Artifacts with 10mb bitrate help!

[zBlaZeD]

Okay so my source media is fraps. I record with fraps @ 91 fps with a res of 1280 x 720. I don't drop from 91 fps at all. Now I import the raw fraps footage into vegas, edit it and add some effects then render it as uncompressed avi.

My uncompressed settings are

1280 x 720
59.940 (Double NTSC) - Reason i changed the fps is because the audio would get out of sync if i dont.
None (progressive scan)
Pixel aspect ratio - 1.0
Uncompressed
Interleave every seconds is checked
interleave every frame is checked
create an open dml avi version 2.0 compatible file is checked

Now that I have my uncompressed avi. I import that avi into adobe media encoder and render as H.264 using these settings

NTSC
1280 x 720
29.97
none progressive
widescreen 16:9
main
3.2

CBR

bitate = 10

Okay so now that you know how I got this .mp4 file maybe you can give me some advice. My problem is whenever I upload it to youtube its awful quality. The text on the left is blocky. Whenever I move around in the video there are artifacts on the text hud and radar. I'm sure there's loads more artifacts too.

Here is the mp4 file its 15 mb uploaded to mediafire
Untitled_1.mp4

Here is the youtube link with the awful quality I explained up there.

YouTube - Untitled_1.mp4

Here is what I want my video to look like.
YouTube - CS5 Adobe After Effects | Render Tutorial | New Process Explained



This pic down there is an example comparing the 2 qualities. Now the pic on the right is a slowmo clip. The pic on the left is in real time. For Some reason when i play the clip in realtime the video will get pixelated and the quality is bad. But when I upload a video in slow mo the quality is actually good. WHY???




I'ld like to have the slowmo quality to play in realtime and look the same as the slow mo.

Any advice to fix this problem is appreciated. Please post if you have any ideas on how to fix this problem.

Thnx!

BlaZeD

[jagabo]

Fewer pictures per second means bits are spread over a smaller number of frames. Hence the higher quality. Youtube's 720p version of your video uses 1/3 the bitrate.

[zBlaZeD]

But as you can see in this video.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DMOxN-SJW50#t=1m47s

The quality is the same even in realtime.

I want it to look good in 480p not only 720p...

[aedipuss]

why are you exporting from vegas and importing to premiere? it would make more sense to render to sony avchd HD template right in vegas. i've found it much better than the adobe's or vegas's mainconcept mp4 encoders. if you have to use something other than vegas try an x264 based encoder front end like mediacoder or handbrake, not adobe.

[zBlaZeD]

why are you exporting from vegas and importing to premiere? it would make more sense to render to sony avchd HD template right in vegas. i've found it much better than the adobe's or vegas's mainconcept mp4 encoders. if you have to use something other than vegas try an x264 based encoder front end like mediacoder or handbrake, not adobe.

Is adobe media encoder considered as premiere?

I was told that if I render as lossless and import into adobe media encoder then render as h264 it would look great on youtube. I guess I was wrong... I don't understand why I would have to use a different encoder. When I paid for adobe after effects that came with adobe media encoder. I'll post a sample of the template you suggested.

[zBlaZeD]

rendered directly out of sony vegas using the template u suggested.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jMX0YOFasdU

No improvement Still pixelated blocky artifacts.

[jagabo]

I don't know why, but when Youtube converted your 720p file it used a max bitrate of 5 Mb/s. The other Youtube video has bitrate peaks over 20 Mb/s.

[zBlaZeD]

I don't know why, but when Youtube converted your 720p file it used a max bitrate of 5 Mb/s. The other Youtube video has bitrate peaks over 20 Mb/s.

Hmmm, Curious.. How did he get youtube to convert his video to such a nice bitrate?

[aedipuss]

what bitrate did you encode to? i use 5-10mbs for 1280x720p encodes and end up with ok youtube stuff, but i mostly do low motion videos, fast motion would need more. the only way i know of that a youtube vid would end up with peaks over 20mbs is if it were uploaded at 50mbs or so.

[poisondeathray]

The other video has other stuff in it. Yours is all action and motion right away. Add an intro and outtro to yours, like a title screen or blank video and end credits and I bet it would improve

[zBlaZeD]

These are the settings I used and the bitrate is @ 10,000,000 the highest I can go for sony avc is 20,000,000

What settings should I use to encode @ 50mbs? and I'm abit skeptical because in this http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DMOxN-SJW50#t=5m38s video he shows that he encodes @ a bitrate of 10mbs in adobe media encoder. Maybe hes lying

[aedipuss]

10mbps should be ok. try 20mbps and add some blank black video to the end maybe pdr is right and the extra peak value is because some of his video uses almost nothing and the encoder at youtube is vbr so it uses the extra in high motion areas.

[zBlaZeD]

The other video has other stuff in it. Yours is all action and motion right away. Add an intro and outtro to yours, like a title screen or blank video and end credits and I bet it would improve

That is a great idea! I'll try that right now

[jagabo]

Bitrate Viewer view of the other guys video:

[zBlaZeD]

Okay so I did a test and added abit of text as and intro. Does the framerate matter for the intro? Cause my project settings are set to 91fps which might be alittle high. Hmm Anyways here it is.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sDIUcRl96F4

I used a bitrate of 20mb on this one. Hmmm

[aedipuss]

so? 480p and 720p look ok to me. i didn't d/l and check them but they seem watchable. better than most y.t. crud.....

[poisondeathray]

Does the framerate matter for the intro?

Yes it makes a difference how you do it. Your intro/outro should be longer, and should match specs as the "main" part. FYI, the addional 5sec intro+ 5 sec outro only added up ~500kB more than your original video which was ~15MB = total 15.5MB, so it's not like it's a big burden to upload.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OVArZdzADYQ


Have a look at the bitrate distribution ; the peak is 21Mbps in the appended version I did, it was only <6Mbps in your original (both downloaded from youtube)

Have a look at the screenshot quality difference (Make sure you view at full screen size)

It still looks like garbage later on (but better than your initial upload without the appended segemetns), so you'll have to fiddle with it to optimize it (maybe make the intro/outtro longer) . But it's youtube and I wouldn't expect that much

[zBlaZeD]

I think we are really on to something!

Now the question is do I need to use this black background with text to achieve good quality? Or can I actually make a short intro in after effects and still have the bitrate peak up to 20mbs.

[poisondeathray]

This is nothing new. This "trick" has been used for years, but it's one of the few "tricks" that still works to a minor extent (after all the changes youtube has gone thoughout the years)

The intro /outtro I used , I dialed in 10Mbps but it only achieved ~350kbps . The reason is it's so low complexity that it saturates at such a low bitrate. I'll upload the intro for you , it's really tiny .

I used AME using the same encoding settings (ref frames , profile etc...), so I could append it to your mediafire upload (the one you originally uploaded to YT) . I did it this way so I didn't have to incur additional quality loss over your mediafire version (when you re-encode it's lossy and you lose quality each time). So I appended the blankclip+your original+blank clip in mkvtoolnix.

In the future, you would just make your exports from AE or Premiere or Vegas (whatever) so there are intro/outro already composited (so you don't incur extra generation loss)

Now the question is do I need to use this black background with text to achieve good quality? Or can I actually make a short intro in after effects and still have the bitrate peak up to 20mbs.

It doesn't matter what you use, it could be any background, but the key is to make it low complexity and simple, so it doesn't "eat" up bitrate. If you have too fancy an intro, it will require lots of bitrate and detract from your "main" piece.

You also have to experiment a bit, because YT frequently changes their practices. What works today might change tomorrow

[zBlaZeD]

Is there any simple effects I can put to my original footage so it looks better on youtube? I maybe could try a white haze for brightness maybe that will remove deblocking and artifacts?

[poisondeathray]

Is there any simple effects I can put to my original footage so it looks better on youtube? I maybe could try a white haze for brightness maybe that will remove deblocking and artifacts?

That will make it worse.

Long GOP compression (the kind youtube uses and almost everything you see uses) works to encode the differences between frames. The larger the differences, the harder it is on the encoder (or higher complexity) . A still intro with no motion has exactly NO change between consecutive frames - hence it requires so little bitrate and looks crisp.

The more action/explosions jerkiness you have, the worse it will be (i.e. harder on compression), because each frame is so different from the last . So if you added a white haze, it would be different from the preceding and later frames, that would be HARDER on the encoder, because it's a luminance change, not easier. If you want to make optimizations, you want to take the shakes out (maybe stabilize the clips) , denoise & smooth it a bit (but videogame footage is normally very clean in the first place) - so really there isn't much you can do - you are at the mercy of youtube.

If you notice videogame footage, "sniper" type videos are generally more clear and better quality than ones with explosions and action all over the place. This is the explanation why - there is hardly any motion.

Youtube uses such a low bitrate that everything looks crappy. If you do see a good video, I am certain that it has low complexity or has spaced out the periods of action. You will never see a video that looks good and is 100% action on youtube.

If you want better quality, use another hosting site . There is only so much you can do before you run into the real limitations (ie.. youtube's low bitrate re-encoding practices)

[poisondeathray]

If you get the gist of the long winded speech above (sorry) , it's the exact same reasoning that jagabo mentioned earlier for the better visual quality of the slow motion videos. There are fewer differences between frames in slo motion. So another technique that some folks use is spread out sections of slo mo among the heavy action

Another tip: if your goal is youtube only, you don't need to export a 60p comp out of vegas or AE . Stick with 30p for everything. Your're just wasting space and time exporting a 60p piece out of vegas. But recording at 90FPS is a good idea for slo mo (but 91 isnt because it's not evenly divisible). If this is ONLY for youtube/online I would use true 30p (30.00) , not 30000/1001 or 29.97 . That way it's perfectly divisible and you have no blended or dropped frames

[zBlaZeD]

Alrighty! Thank you very much you have been very informative. I will be recording at 90 fps instead of 91 lol and I'll export it out of vegas as 30 fps so it is as you said " perfectly divisible " So there really is no secret to good quality on youtube is there? I'll just have to stick with simple intro's and transitions with added slow mo to keep the bitrate up when I upload. I was thinking that maybe I could add a slow mo clip in vegas behind all the other clips and keep the bitrate up that way. But that idea doesn't work lol nvm... Again thnx guys for taking the time to explain everything to me. Okay time to record some footage in 90 fps! Wish me luck

[zBlaZeD]

I just thought I'd share my intro with you guys!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=met4zyLGZ4o

[jagabo]

Note that fade ins, fade outs, and cross fades, cost a lot of bitrate because every pixel changes from frame to frame.

[zBlaZeD]

I found a way to make the video look good but it involves having a black screen at the end of the video. Which is like a min long. I'm guna try and shorten it up to like 5 seconds so its seemless.

Here's a test I did

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hndwPAiw52Y

I don't plan on removing this video. Guna keep it up for educational purposes.