MPG2SRT not finding CCs in recording

[jeanpave]

Hi.

I've been trying this nice tool for ripping closed captioning from TV recordings (made with a DVD recorder). It's MPG2SRT.
The tool works fine, but for some reason it cannot rip the CC from a specific show. I don't know if the name is relevant.

I know for sure that the show has closed captioning on TV, and that the DVD recorder keeps the closed captioning in the recording in general.
As a matter of fact, I can also confirm that MPG2SRT can rip the CC from the commercials which are aired during the breaks in the show, but only very few lines from the actual show. It DOES capture a couple of lines from the actual show, here and there; I checked.

Does this problem sound familiar to anyone? Is there a way around it?
(Maybe this specific show has the CCs on another line, or something like that?...)

Thank you in advance to whoever replies.

[usually_quiet]

Try CCExtractor. It has worked well for me.

[jeanpave]

Thanks, but I did try CCExtractor, and it didn't work.

MPG2SRT can rip about 10 lines of closed captioning from the 44 minutes of the show (- I can't explain why it can rip a few and not all -) while all CCExtractor outputs is totally empty SRT files.

[usually_quiet]

Those are the only free CC conversion applications I know of that can extract CCs as subtitles. VOBSUB can extract CCs in raw format, which can be converted to .srt with something else. (one of McPoodles Tools or CCExtractor)

The DVD standard only supports C1 and C2, but most often CCs are in C1 . VLC or your TV might allow you find out which CC field(s) are used on the DVD. (To access CCs with VLC, use the Video->Subtitles menu.)

[Edit]I tried VOBSUB on one of my recorded DVDs. It didn't work. Maybe it looks for the CC format exactly as specified in the DVD standard. I have seen CCs on recorded DVDs may be mixed in with other stuff contained in the VBI.

[jeanpave]

Hi again.

Could you please give me some more information on how to find on which line the CCs are located?
In VLC Player, the Video - Subtitles Track feature has 6 options: Open File, Disable, Closed Captions 1, Closed Captions 2, Closed Captions 3, Closed Captions 4. Only Closed Captions 1 displays the CCs, though.
(So, VLC can see the CCs... Hmm!)
But there is nothing saying on which line they are located. Where do you find this info?

Thank you.

[usually_quiet]

All the caption channels recorded on a DVD are sent on line 21 when the DVD is played. I was confusing channels and fields. DVD supports 2 fields and four channels. The Wikipedia article on closed captions http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Closed_captioning explains the fields and channels in the section titled "Caption Channels".

Line 21 in the VBI contains 2 CC fields, each with 2 CC channels. The closed captions on your recording are in channel 1, which is right where they normally are. I can't say why CCExtractor and MPG2SRT won't extract them correctly.

I don't know if MPG2SRT is still being developed but there is a hompage with contact information http://www.htpctools.com/mpg2srt/

CCExtractor is still under development and contact information is listed on CCExtractor's homepage http://ccextractor.sourceforge.net/ if you want to file a bug report and send a sample CC dump from your recording in .bin format.

[loster]

I have had this problem in the past. I don't know of any fix but on the problematic recordings XDS was present. VLC could however see the closed captions and output them correctly.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Extended_Data_Services

[usually_quiet]

I have had this problem in the past. I don't know of any fix but on the problematic recordings XDS was present. VLC could however see the closed captions and output them correctly.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Extended_Data_Services

I don't think the mere presence of XDS data is the root of the problem . XDS data of various sorts was recorded along with closed captions in all of my older DVD recordings, which originated from analog cable channels. I could see some of it mixed in with the CCs when I used PowerDVD 5 to play recorded DVDs. However, the XDS data didn't interfere with the process of converting closed captions to .srt subtitles using CCExtractor. I have never used MPG2SRT.

Maybe particular XDS data or corrupted XDS data could cause problems with CCExtractor, but in general it doesn't seem to interfere with the conversion process.

[loster]

Strange I just tested mpg2srt and it worked just fine on one of my problematic recordings.

[jeanpave]

Hi, guys.

I don't think any of the data is corrupted, because, like I said, this is a show that airs with many pauses which are full of commercials. And all of the commercial CCs are ripped properly by MPG2SRT.
(It's not HDTV, either, by the way - if that matters at all.)

Also, this is a relatively new recorder, manufactured probably in 2008, because the default date that appears, after it has been unplugged, is 1/1/2008. It shouldn't have any of the problems of old recordings.

So, Usually_quiet, do you reckon I should really contact the creator(s) of MPG2SRT?

Another question for you both, if I may:
I know that, with VobSub installed, if I open a video file that has a SRT with the same name in its folder in TMPGEnc Xpress, this will author the resulting video with hard subtitles. Is it possible to manipulate the CCs the same way? (Hopefully, it's clear what I mean, here.)
I'd rather have them hard coded in the video than not at all!...

[loster]

Have you tried VSrip it only works on dvds but might be worth trying. Also as a last resort you could try using the extraction tools included with SCC Tools
http://www.theneitherworld.com/mcpoodle/SCC_TOOLS/DOCS/SCC_TOOLS.HTML#CCExtract

[usually_quiet]

So, Usually_quiet, do you reckon I should really contact the creator(s) of MPG2SRT?

If you contact the author/development team it is possible the problem will be fixed in a subsequent release. If nobody reports a problem or provides samples to work from, the chances of getting a problem corrected are not good.

Another question for you both, if I may: I know that, with VobSub installed, if I open a video file that has a SRT with the same name in its folder in TMPGEnc Xpress, this will author the resulting video with hard subtitles. Is it possible to manipulate the CCs the same way? (Hopefully, it's clear what I mean, here.)
I'd rather have them hard coded in the video than not at all!...

I don't know. Try it on a short clip and see what happens.

[jeanpave]

Have you tried VSrip it only works on dvds but might be worth trying. Also as a last resort you could try using the extraction tools included with SCC Tools
http://www.theneitherworld.com/mcpoodle/SCC_TOOLS/DOCS/SCC_TOOLS.HTML#CCExtract

Thanks for the suggestion. It was one small step forward.

VSrip does rip all the closed captioning, but it's unbelievably garbled.
Here is one ripped sequence:
??H??H??H??H??H??H??H??H??H??H??
H??H??
YOU TALK ABOH??H??HUT
ACCURACY --
The correct line would be, of course:
YOU TALK ABOUT
ACCURACY --

But this is not the only problem, unfortunately. One line, towards the end, says:
ABOUTNTED ME,SSIBLE
I don't know what that's supposed to be without checking in the episode.

So, I guess the SCC Tools would be my last resort. Which one of them would you use? (GeneralParser and then CCParser to convert the RAW file? - Didn't MPG2SRT use the same processes but combined?)

[jeanpave]

If you contact the author/development team it is possible the problem will be fixed in a subsequent release. If nobody reports a problem or provides samples to work from, the chances of getting a problem corrected are not good.

Right. I guess it couldn't hurt if I ask him.

I don't know. Try it on a short clip and see what happens.

No, it doesn't work, unfortunately.

[loster]

I've reviewed my notes and it looks like I used SCC_RIP on short test clips only without success. This leads me to believe the mpg2srt is slightly different in the way it extracts closed captions. CCExract is based on SCC Extractor however.

Does CCExtractor use code from other projects?
Yes. Lots of code came originally from McPoodle's tools (even though it was ported from Perl to C). I've also taken code from MythTV (which in turn took some from other places).

Please be aware that SCC extractor is very slow I think my 5 min test clips took a half hour or more compared to the 10 min or less for mpg2srt or CCExtractor to process 30 min or so of footage.

[jeanpave]

No problem, Loster.
The wait duration is the least of the problems.

Do you know what program I could use to see if the BIN or SCC files that were output by SCC_RIP are good rips, please?

I tried CCASDI to convert the SCC to SRT, and the result was not good. (Nothing in the output file but the times of the first CC line; no words.) The resulting SRT was 1 kB, but the BIN is 155 kB and the SCC is 753 kB.

I know DVD-lab PRO 2 can work with SCC files, supposedly, but I only have 1.5. Any other program I could use to view BINs or SCCs?

Thank you.

[loster]

For high-end DVD authoring (Sonic Scenarist, Apple DVDStudio Pro, and the discontinued Spruce DVDMaestro), closed captions are entered as files in the SCC format (for Scenarist Closed Caption)

You could try converting to CCD instead with CCASDI.
It seems all of the conversion methods involve CCASDI though.
Maybe you could open it using a hex editor?

Have you tried contacting the CCExtractor devloper with a bug report as the program is still under development. I contacted them recently about a bug.

[jeanpave]

By default, CCASDI outputs a CCD. I had to modify the parameters to get a SRT, because I've got no idea what a CCD is or which program uses such files.
But I guess something could go wrong in that conversion process, too, no?

Maybe the BIN file, which has no conversions (- if I understand all this correctly -) made to it, is captured properly and that's why VLC can read the closed captioning. (Because it doesn't try to convert it to SRT or other formats.)
So, I'd like to open that BIN file, without any more conversions.

But I tried a freeware hex editor (XVI32) and I couldn't make anything of what it was outputting. I suppose on the left it had the hexadecimal code and on the right the conversion, but it all looked like gibberish.

And you say the only way to open a SCC file is with one of those 3 programs you mentioned?

EDIT: Yes, I'll try to contact the creators of CCExtractor and MPG2SRT, but after it's established that I've got no way to rip these CCs properly.

[usually_quiet]

I don't think you are going to get any further on your own.

According to the CCExtractor website, .bin files are a format made up for CCExtractor. They contain a dump of the closed caption data with timing info. I'm sure they are not human readable. Maybe if you contact the CCExtractor team they could tell you if there is software available that you can use to examine .bin files. I doubt that there is, but what do you have to loose? If you decide to file a bug report, you might mention that VLC can read the CCs. VLC is open source so they may be able to borrow some code from it or figure out where their own code has gone wrong.

I don't know much about SCC files, but I'd guess they aren't human readable either. The only software I know of that can work with them are professional tools. Another one is Pixel Tools Expert-Caption, but at $1500, it is not something the average person is going run out and buy.

[jeanpave]

Okay, thank you.

I guess that's it, then.

[emsdallas]

I've been trying to find a download for MPG2SRT, but no luck.

never mind--I found a version 3

http://forums.sagetv.com/forums/showthread.php?t=23386&highlight=closed+captioning

post #6 has a zip that still downloads.