Cooling Solutions - *Solved & updated* Problems w/overheating & idle temps

[Noahtuck]

Okay, so my new system is currently running at idle 56/57c for the cpu and 68c for the motherboard reading.
If i even try to do a video encode it sky rockets so high if i let it go my system shuts down to keep from burning up!!
If i recall correctly the mobo and cpu hit up around 92c then shut down!!


I have the GIGABYTE GA-MA785GM-US2H & a AMD Athlon II X3 440 Triple Core Processor - 3.00GHz, because it was cheaper and i can unlock the 4th core for a cheaper quad system.
Here is the correct more current 6 core compatible mobo i have,
http://www.gigabyte.com/products/product-page.aspx?pid=3447#ov

And it's nice because i can drop in a 6 core later without having to buy a new mobo.

Even running it locked to the original 3 cores, it is really high temp., the one's i listed are at 3 core.

I am going to reset the CPU cooler i currently have to see if that helps, it's pretty big, like the size of your fist, and i use the same kind on my 2.5ghz dual core and it never goes over 38c under heavy load.
And idles at 32c

I was looking at the Ultra ChillTec cpu coolers,
http://www.tigerdirect.com/applications/SearchTools/item-details.asp?EdpNo=4387079&Sku=ULT40417
http://www.tigerdirect.com/applications/SearchTools/item-details.asp?EdpNo=4486403&Sku=ULT40493

But they are almost the size of your head!!
Then i figured if i am going to spend that much or another $100.00 on a cooler i might as well go with the liquid cooling like redwudz did,
https://forum.videohelp.com/threads/270162-AMD-six-core-CPU-and-Corsair-H50-water-cooli...hlight=cooling

One question for redwudz, did you add that second fan ?
Because all the one's i look at only come with 1 fan for the radiator.
Where did you buy yours ?

And one for budz

^^^price has been off and on at $60.00 including free shipping on some online websites.

Where have you seen them for that price ?


I was also looking at these for my northbridge chipset,
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=330394624274&ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=110404030471&ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT

I have not even put in my BFG GeForce GTS 250 yet because i figure that's gonna help increase the temps & i don't want to have to keep pulling it out while i reset the CPU heatsink and then put in another one.

I am going to go with one of the liquid cooling units regardless but i want to see if it helps to reset it.

I was also looking at these for liquid cpu cooling,
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16835227006
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16835227005

[Almost Human]

I have that same motherboard, but with an Athlon II X3 435 (2.9Ghz). With the stock HSF and thermal grease the BIOS was showing 42C for the CPU and 68C for the MB. I reduced the CPU voltage from 1.4 to 1.325, and brought the CPU down to 39C but the MB stayed at 68C. After opening the box I could not feel any component that was more than mildly warm, and the heatsink was cool. I suspect that the MB is reading the sensors incorrectly.

[MJA]

you can get it for $54 if you are ok with MIR

http://www.techbargains.com/news_displayItem.cfm/215388

[Noahtuck]

@ Almost Human
My son has had that same mobo for about a year with a dual core amd 2.8ghz and his never runs that warm.

I use Everest, HWI, and also a digital display with sensors that mount on the cpu, ect and they all read the same.

you can get it for $54 if you are ok with MIR

http://www.techbargains.com/news_displayItem.cfm/215388

Yeah i hate mail in rebates, it seems like you get screwed more than not.

And that price is wrong on that site, http://www.tigerdirect.com/applications/SearchTools/item-details.asp?Sku=C13-2528&SRCC...ByP6avwKcO3ohg

Anyone ever used those northbridge cooler/fans/heatsinks ?

[redwudz]

I didn't use the single fan that came with the cooler. I used two matched aftermarket PWM (Pulse Width Modulated) fans. The PWM fans are controlled by the motherboard CPU fan header. I used a 'Y' splitter to hook to both. The tachometer lead on one fan is disconnected so the MB has a clean RPM signal. The push-pull fan setup is more efficient as it increases the air velocity through the radiator. This two fan setup is discussed on the Corsair site.

The 120mm PWM fans I used were from Gelid: http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16835426015 They are very quiet and respond quickly to temperature changes.

The one major change I made is to exhaust the case air out through the radiator. Corsair recommends using cooler outside air to blow in through the radiator. The system would probably run a bit cooler that way, but I wanted to avoid having to put a filter on the fan intake. Without a filter the radiator would clog with dust fairly quickly. My two case intake fans have air filters.

An unexpected bonus is that the case temperatures dropped. Apparently the very large cooler I was using before also radiated a lot of heat into the case.

I just checked the idle temps as the system has been running mostly idle for several hours. 26C on the CPU, 40C case temps. With 100% on all cores, running Graysky's benchmark the CPU goes up to about 38C with a case temp of 40C. The NB (North Bridge) temp was 46C.

The case and NB temps go up a couple more degrees C with a overnight encode, the CPU temps stays at 38C. The temps also drop within less than a minute back to the idle temps after the load is removed. With a air cooler, the drop is faster, but that water has to circulate a bit more, so slower cooling down response.

My MB has a heatpipe type cooler for the NB that also goes to the voltage regulator modules, so a aftermarket HS (Heat Sink) for the NB would be difficult to install.

I read a lot of reviews before going with the Corsair, including ones for Cool-it. The larger cool-it may have some mounting problems, it would with my case. The smaller one didn't seem to have as good of reviews as the Corsair.

None of those are 'real' liquid cooling systems. But they are much easier to attach than all the plumbing, external radiators, pumps, reservoirs and controllers a regular liquid system uses. And a lot cheaper. I'm very happy with my setup so far.

BTW, most CPUs will start into shut down/throttle down at about 70C. Damage could occur in the 90C range if they didn't shut down or throttle back fairly quickly. Even at 70C your thermal compound may be damaged after a while. With the temps you report, there is a serious problem somewhere, either the fitting of the CPU cooler or those temps are not being read correctly.

I use a infrared thermometer to double check my internal temps. The temps that Hardware Monitor reads are fairly close. The MB temps are not the same as the case temps most times. If in doubt about your reading, put your finger on the base of the CPU cooler. 70C will burn it. Even the ~40C NB temps will feel very hot.

Sorry, this post got a bit long.

EDIT: If you add in the -$15 coupon code, from that site MJA linked to, along with the -$10 rebate it does come out to about $55 with free shipping.

[budz]

Are you using HWMonitor for your temp readings? Did you try using the stock hsf? Because I suspect the mobo could be defective or the AMD Rana cpu. Once I got high temp readings I RMA the mobo and cpu. I had contacted Gigabyte regarding high cpu temps which were at stock speed and gigabyte rep told me to return the cpu and mobo. He said it's easier that way instead of trying to figure out which is defective the mobo or cpu. The Gigabyte 770, 790, 880 & 890 series chipset mobo's are better for overclocking if you're looking at getting a AMD 6 core cpu at a later time.
I don't use water cooling yet but the Corsair Hydro series H50 was on sale a few weeks back but I can't remember what online store. Newegg currently has it for $80.00 with free shipping.

If you're going to use the GIGABYTE GA-MA785GM-US2H for overclocking you should get some Enzo mosfet heatsinks for the mobo. I was advised to get them for my Gigabyte GA-770TA-UD3 mobo because I don't have VRM cooling on it. The mobo you have doesn't have the VRM cooling like the mobo redwudz has. There have been reports of burning of the heatsinks on the mobo when overclocking. I bought mine from sidewindercomputer.com but Newegg also carries it instock.

http://www.sidewindercomputers.com/enmofocomohe.html

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16835708012&cm_re=enzotech_copper_...-012-_-Product

I don't have any experience with the Ultra ChillTec cpu coolers. Best Bang for the buck is the CM Hyper 212+ cpu cooler using 2 fans in a push/pull configuration. Amazon has the CM Hyper 212+ for about $30.00 w/free shipping.

For the northbridge chipset cooling just attach a 40mm scythe fan on it. I have used Enzotech chipset cooler on a Gigabyte P35-DS3L mobo. I didn't buy my enzotech chipset cooler from frozencpu.com but they do have it in stock.
http://www.frozencpu.com/products/6717/vid-102/Enzotech_SLF-1_Forged_Copper_Northbridg...?tl=g40c16s500

[Noahtuck]

@ Almost Human
Yeah i may try to drop my voltage down, right now i just have everything set at "fail safe defaults" i believe it's called, or to that effect.

@ redwudz
Okay, i see it now, i missed the coupon code.
Yeah i was also leaning towards the corsair cooler over the other ones.

@ budz
I am not planning on overclocking, this or any furture cpu's
I like those mosfet heatsinks, definitely going to pick up a pack of those.

And what do you mean by a 40mm scythe fan ?
Do you mean like redwudz did in his with a fan bracket from Zalman ?

Once i put that BFG GeForce GTS 250 there will not be much room.
That's why i thinking of using one of those heatsink fan combo northbridge coolers.

I will reset the heatsink i have now, then try the water cooler and see if that helps, if neither does then i guess i call them and do an RMA....

See, now i am confused...
Someone told me that the northbridge chip was the big blue heatsink, but every northbridge heatsink and fan look like they fit in place of the silver heatsink ?
[IMG]file:///C:/Users/CHAOS/AppData/Local/Temp/moz-screenshot.png[/IMG]


And here are the screen shots of the different temp programs.
ANd this was right at startup with nothing running.

[Noahtuck]

Okay, i turned off the auto feature in my bios and dropped te voltage and it dropped the temp a bit, not as low as i would like for the CPU but i'll try resetting the cpu heatsink and fan and see what happens.

I am going to order that corsair water cooler in a few minutes.

[johns0]

This is the fan http://www.frostytech.com/articleview.cfm?articleID=2233 i got for my computer and it only goes up to 52c when encoding hd video in the hot weather.

Fits in an asus mid tower case.

[budz]

IMHO I think there's something wrong with your mobo or cpu. If after reseating the cpu and hsf & the temps are still high......I doubt it's the cpu cooler....I'd just RMA the mobo and cpu....but that's just my opinion.

[redwudz]

Yes, the 'big blue heat sink' is the North Bridge HS. Gigabyte put that piece of aluminum with the blue logo on it to apparently screw up the poor NB cooling even worse. The NB chip under it is fairly small, with that heat sink teetering on it. Really a poor design, IMO. It uses two spring loaded pins on opposite corners to hold it in place. It's design makes it all but impossible to mount a fan directly to the HS.

No easy way to fit a fan on it, so a bracketed fan hovering above it is one option. I used a 80mm fan with that Zalman bracket, because I had several handy.

The smaller silver HS to the lower right is the South Bridge. It handles I/O. The North Bridge typically handles communications among the CPU, RAM, BIOS ROM, and PCI Express (or AGP) video cards. The South Bridge handles the drives, PCI bus and communications ports. When they incorporate the video chipset into the NB, it runs even hotter. The SB normally runs fairly cool.

When you OC the FSB on a MB to increase the CPU speed, the NB usually gets OC'd also, resulting in more heat. But you can lower the NB clock setting in BIOS if needed.

If you aren't OC'ing, then the Corsair cooler should work very well, even in a poorly ventilated case. I would use it over a similarly priced air cooler any time, IMO.

EDIT: To retrofit the NB HS, you may have to measure the mounting pin spacing. NB's are used in Intel and AMD motherboards and some AMD MBs, such as mine, also incorporate the video chipset on the NB chip, so it is a bit larger. I think the earlier NB HS's were about the same size as the SB, but probably needed more cooling, so a larger HS.

[Noahtuck]

Yes, the 'big blue heat sink' is the North Bridge HS. Gigabyte put that piece of aluminum with the blue logo on it to apparently screw up the poor NB cooling even worse. The NB chip under it is fairly small, with that heat sink teetering on it. Really a poor design, IMO. It uses two spring loaded pins on opposite corners to hold it in place. It's design makes it all but impossible to mount a fan directly to the HS.

No easy way to fit a fan on it, so a bracketed fan hovering above it is one option. I used a 80mm fan with that Zalman bracket, because I had several handy.

Yeah that's what was throwing me, all the northbridge heatsink fan combos were way to small from pin to pin compared to the big one on my mobo.

The smaller silver HS to the lower right is the South Bridge.

DOHH!!!
Yeah that's one of my better DERR moments!!!
I remembered that as soon as i read what you wrote......

When you OC the FSB on a MB to increase the CPU speed, the NB usually gets OC'd also, resulting in more heat. But you can lower the NB clock setting in BIOS if needed.

Well i don't plan on overclocking anytime soon so....

If you aren't OC'ing, then the Corsair cooler should work very well, even in a poorly ventilated case. I would use it over a similarly priced air cooler any time, IMO.

Well i bought one and finished my system about 99.9% tonight and it made a world of difference!!!

[Noahtuck]

First thing, i told budz about it in a PM, when i installed the first CPU heatshink because i was putting a temp probe between the CPU and heatsink, i used more thermal compound than i normally would, more than anyone would or probably should, and i know too much can also be bad.
So i am guessing the extra thick layer of thermal compound had something to do with the extra high temps.....


But it did not click until after all the post's here.....
It's like the simple and obvious does not pop into your mind until after you have tried to figure out the most difficult and obscure reasons!!!
LOL!!

I decided not to reseat the CPU heatsink until after i got the Corsair H50 and my new case, just because i did not want to mess with it until i had everything i wanted and needed to redo the whole system.

So i bought a new Rosewill Challenger case, the Corsair H50, ect.

I just finished putting it all together earlier tonight and my temps dropped by many degrees!!

Here are the results after putting everything into a new case and putting in the H50 with the thermal compound that came on the heatsink/pump.




A very big difference!!

And that is with the case open, i may take it off and reseat the heatsink/pump with one of the top thermal compounds.

I will see what the temps are after i put on the side cover with the 2 - 120mm intake fans.

I will also be posting photo's of the entire system as i put it together for anyone who want's to see it, besides, budz asked for photo's of it

[redwudz]

Yes, much better. If you ever get the urge again to place a thermal probe on a CPU heat sink (Or any heat sink), what I've done is clean off a place as close to the base of the HS as possible with isopropyl alcohol. Put a very small blob of thermal compound on the face of the thermal probe, then attach it to the heat sink by encapsulating it in a bit larger blob of high temperature epoxy. The thermal compound will transfer the heat to the probe and the epoxy will hold it to the heat sink. You can temporarily hold it in place with some tape on the wires till the epoxy sets. I used to do this with older MBs with CPUs that didn't have built in thermal sensors.

No matter where you put a external thermal probe, it won't read the same as the one in the CPU, but you should be more interested in the change in the temps, not the temp itself. A faster reaction to a load means you have good contact with the HS. The CPU on-die temp is going to be the most accurate.

I think I may have mentioned before that the MB temp isn't the same as the case temp, usually a fair amount higher. Since it's mounted on the MB, it's reading the MB surface temps, not the air temps.

Just for reference, the thickness of the thermal compound on a HS should be about the same as one or two magazine pages at maximum, IMO. Thinner if your CPU and HS base are really flat, which they rarely are.

[budz]

Hey! CPU temps are COOL! Congrats on the new system using the H50! Hmmm....makes me wanna try that H50 out too.

[redwudz]

I wanted to stuff a H50 in my HTPC, but no way without extensive surgery. Now I'm planning on reversing the exhaust fans, adding filter screens to them and opening up the small perforated grill in the opposite side to a 120mm hole with a fan guard to cover it. No room for an exhaust fan. Photos to follow when I get the parts.

[Noahtuck]

I also wondered about the wattage reading.
It say's it's running at 101.25w but the cpu specs list it at 95w.
With it running at a higher wattage would cause it to run hotter also, so how would i lower that ?
Lower the voltage going to the CPU or is there another setting ?

I see you are running your 6 core at 1.22v with a wattage reading of various readings depending on your load where mine is the same all the way across the board.
Although i do have my system set up for full power at all times.....

I did what Almost Human suggested before installing the H50 with the new case, I reduced the CPU voltage from 1.4 to 1.3.

Another reason i wanted the temp probe right on the CPU is because when you unlock the 4th core for some reason the internal individual core temps can not be read or are disabled for some reason, all i can get is the overall cpu temp.


@ budz
Yeah it's a nice as heck unit!!
I plugged the pump power into a non controlled plug so it runs at full power continuously and when i first turned the system on it was so quiet i was almost worried it was not running, even putting my hand on the pump to see if i could feel it running, i still could not tell!!!!
But obviously it must be!!
LOL!!


I also like how Easytune say's the case is open, how would it know ? there is no kind of sensor on the case.....

[redwudz]

The open case sensor is just a normally closed switch, so if if it's not connected, it will always show 'open case'. You can usually 'disable' the sensor in BIOS if it bothers you. It's more often used in business computers to indicate tampering.

If you still have your BIOS set at 'Fail Safe', I would set it to 'Optimized' instead, and the performance should improve without much, if any, affect on temperature. It may reset other settings in BIOS, so I would do a quick check of them all.

Also if your CPU voltage is set to manual, 1.3V or whatever, I would set it to auto. The BIOS can adjust the CPU voltage as needed and does very well with this.

The CPU power readings in HWM may not mean much, not sure how they are derived. Temperature is more important. The wattage readings will probably vary quite a bit depending on the CPU voltage. Watts = Voltage X Amperes

About the only 'fine tuning' adjustment you may need to make in BIOS is setting the DDR3 speed. Most newer motherboards don't seem to read it properly and set it to a lower speed. I use 1600 speed DDR3 RAM and the BIOS sets it by default to ~1300. Easy enough to check with CPUZ. I would leave all other CPU/RAM settings at default unless you're sure of what they do and their affect on the system. The BIOS normally does a very good job of managing the MB and CPU settings at auto/default.

[johns0]

The CPU power readings in HWM may not mean much, not sure how they are derived. Temperature is more important. The wattage readings will probably vary quite a bit depending on the CPU voltage. Watts = Voltage X Amperes

Hmw reads the built-in temp sensors through the bios.

[Noahtuck]

Okay, i better do this before budz flys over here and kiks my butt!!


I've been telling him for like a week and a half i was going to get this up but i keep getting sidetracked!!


First off, Photography is not my Forte but you will get the jist of it....
LOL!!


Okay, i bought a Rosewill Challenger atx mid case,
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16811147153


I was extremely impressed with it for being only $50.00!!
I always have to buy a smaller case to fit in my desk's.



Scewless install for the HDD's and optical drives and the HDD rack is sideways which i really like!!
I also like that it came with a tray/adapter to hold either 2 SSD's or 2 - 2.5" HDD's.
Which i used for an old 320gb Sata HDD i had.

And the slots in the back panel for running all the cables out of the main case for less clutter.

I don't know if it's a good thing or not but the PCI slot covers are all perforated,



And one thing i did not realize before i got it was that it had a fan vent and filter on the bottom for putting the PSU upside down and it sucks cool air from outside the case and exhausts it directly out the back!

It also has little rubber feet for the PSU to sit on, i guess to help reduce vibration and noise,






I like that it has the bottom fan intake with a filter, pulling outside cool air through the PSU, instead of warm air from within the case, and exhausting directly out the back, by mounting it this way it puts all the cables close to the back panel so i could route them between the back panel and the outside case panel.





I ended up buying a Ultra LSP650 650-Watt Power Supply and even after being on for a few days straight and right after playing games on high settings i put my hand on it and it actually felt cooler then the room air temp!!



And the hole cut in the back panel for access to the CPU cooler bracket made it extremely easy to swap the mounting bracket for using the Corsair Hydro H50 CPU Liquid Cooler.





Here is the Corsair Hydro H50 CPU Liquid Cooler mounted,



I did the dual fan push/pull setup but unlike redwudz i made it pull air from outside the case.
The reason i did this was because i have the 1-120mm intake fan on the front, 2-120mm intake fans on the side, and the 140mm exhaust fan on the top of the case.

And because the PSU air flow is isolated from the inside of the case and heat rises, everything is pretty much vented out the top of the case, except the BFG GTS 250 which vents out the back.



I put an Ultra U12-40645 120mm Washable Fan Filter on the outside fan.

And instead of using 1 1/4” 6-32 screws and washers i bought 1 1/2” 6-32 stainless screws to make up for the extra space of the back fan being outside the case and the fan filter.
I used my handy dandy trusty dremel to trim off about 1/8th of an inch from each screw.


Here it is all done just before plugging it in and firing it up for the first time.



The only wires i could not route through the back panel was the 8-pin plug for the motherboard, the H50 pump power wire and obviously the CPU heatsink/pump hoses for the radiator.

Here are the side fans from the inside and outside,





I had to stagger them temporarily because the holes for mounting the 2-120mm side fans put them too close together for adding the side filters, but i do not think them being staggered is that big of a deal so i may just leave them that way.

The only problem i had was because i mounted the one 120mm intake fan on the outside the side wont go on all the way because the fan is so close to the edge of the case, it is in the way of the lip or edge of the side panel.

The side panel actually has a spot cut out on the lip so it does not cover the fan exhaust holes but it is not large enough to clear the 120mm fan being on the outside of the case.

I also ordered a matching pair of Rosewill 74.48 CFM 120mm fans for the H50 radiator so this weekend when i have the system lying on it's side on my workbench to install them i will take my handy dandy trusty dremel and trim a little more off the side panel lip so it will close all the way.

At the same time i will also mount my Enzotech MOS-C10 C1100 Forged Copper Heatsinks that budz turned me onto,
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16835708012
i wanted to wait to make sure my heat issues were taken care of before i mounted them.

I will take photos of before and after to post in case anyone wants to see the difference.

And here is a front shot with it up and running.



It's funny, even with all these fans it is still extremely quiet!!
And i have all the fans and the CPU liquid pump running at full power 100% of the time!!!

One of my last systems from within the last year or so, a 2.0ghz single core, had 2-80mm intake fans in the front, 2-80mm exhaust fans in the back & 1-80mm intake fan on the side and it sounded like a damn 747 taking off!!!!!
LOL!!!
And it was a bit warmer than this new system!!!

Here is the CPU-Z reading after unlocking the 4th core,



And it only raised the overall temp of the CPU by about 3c.

I almost bought another case but the day after i decided which one to get, i looked at it again, then went away, and 2 hours later when i got back home it was sold out so i then decided on this one, and i am glad i did because this one seems to be a better case!!

And for $50.00 shipped, i will definitely buy another one if they are still available when i need a new 2nd case!!

I ended up getting the Corsair Hydro H50 CPU Liquid Cooler for $64.99 & free shipping, now to see if i ever get the $10.00 mail in rebate, which would make the final cost $54.99, but even at full price of $75.00-$80.00 it is definitely worth the $$$ and i will buy another one!!

[redwudz]

Looks great. That case seems to be well designed and if it works for you, even better. If your NB temps run a little high, still lots of room for cooling mods.

I've still to do my cooling mods on my HTPC case, maybe this week. I have the parts, just not the initiative.

Great photos, BTW.

[budz]

Whoas! Finally the pictures of the new pc which look awesome. I like the fact you're using push/pull configuration but with the fan on the outside of the case. Wow! I seriously will have to think about building a system using the H50. Perhaps when I build a AMD 6 core that's 95W instead of the 125W version. Looks good man and the case is very well ventilated & the cable management looks good.