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  1. Member
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    Hi, & apologies if this question is something best handled via email or pm [if so please just delete this & let me know]. Simply put, what is the moderators' access to necessary logged info for forum posts? And if I may, how long is that data archived?

    The site General Rules [under Forum Rules], say clearly that ip's are recorded, & that your databases are not open to a 3rd party without the forum member's consent -- which is cool. The reason I'm asking about mod access is that frankly while some like Baldrick are both well known & trusted, I'm unable to make that judgment for every mod. People make mistakes, & people have conflicts -- I'm concerned that should one upset a mod, that mod could then grab that member's ip & proceed to work mischief with it... While that sort of scenario may seem unlikely, it strikes me as one of those things nobody ever thought of until it happened, & then it was too late.

    I never had the slightest concern myself until earlier today when I found out that a mod at another site [whom I had a disagreement with over his censorship of 2 app names], apparently has just that sort of access to use however he sees fit to get even as he sees fit. My acct still works fine -- he apparently didn't/doesn't have access to suspend or cut that off -- but he banned the ip [no biggie because of TOR]. Maybe I'm reading it wrong -- I obviously can't see behind the scenes -- but it did bring up what I thought a good question about access & one added point... neither that site nor videohelp have any copyright statements that I saw.

    I think everyone's aware of the way that blew up into an issue RE: Facebook -- should it be something to consider at Videohelp? Members give (C) consent when they post, just by posting IMHO [I'm no expert so that's strictly My Opinion solely FWIW], but what if/when they no longer have access, even if/when it's their decision & not yours. I don't have an opinion one way of the other on how videohelp should manage the (C) of member contributions, but rather am asking if that's something worth thinking about?

    Thanks
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  2. Greetings Supreme2k's Avatar
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    Anyone can get your IP address.

    Simplest way? Post a pic in this thread (hosted from my own PC), look at my access logs and that's it.

    Mods ban IPs all the time. It's often part of the ban system.

    You're treading awfully close to conspiracy theory territory.

    Reminds me of the emails a little while back about Zabo/Zongo/whatever it was called that let you search public records. People were screaming "OMG! IDENTITY THEFT! STALKERS!", even though the info was publicly available regardless of this "special" service.
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    "You're treading awfully close to conspiracy theory territory."
    Sorry... I both agree & disagree actually. Everybody thinks something can't or won't happen -- until it does. I don't post pics hosted on this system, or anything else in part because it's easy to get the ip etc. If the mods here have access to my ip after I post, I'll use TOR -- no biggie... that's why I asked. Maybe it's overkill -- those who like TOR & other privacy methods think not. That said, I was hesitant to think a anyone would ban an ip rather than just suspend or cut an account, because the latter makes so much more sense [see the TOR docs/FAQs for a decent explanation why] -- from what you've said I was wrong, & therefore apologize [it still doesn't make much sense banning ip's IMHO, but if that's common so-be-it].

    Far as the (C) goes, I've no opinion on that one what-so-ever... just something that occurred to me could potentially cause a hassle if members started revoking the forums' right to post their contributions, & potentially even trying to charge licensing fees -- there are similar precidents I think -- while a line or two added to the rules *might* prevent some of that [in my unqualified opinion ].

    Thanks
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  4. Video Restorer lordsmurf's Avatar
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    I can tell you've never admin'd/modded a forum. Banning users one by one is like killing ants one by one. It's futile. You do much better knocking out a whole range (poisoning whole ant bed). 41.0.0.0, for example. Bye-bye AfriNIC users (Nigerian spammers, etc). Very little legit traffic from the 41 range, for English-speaking sites.

    Your line of thought is mostly conspiracy.

    Everybody thinks something can't or won't happen -- until it does.
    This is logical fallacy.
    You should read this: http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/0143113879?ie=UTF8&tag=thdifa-20&linkCode=as2&camp=17...SIN=0143113879
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  5. What is to keep the Nigerian spammers from using a proxy or something like that to alter their IP? How would you stop those people if they did that?
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    Originally Posted by lordsmurf View Post
    Everybody thinks something can't or won't happen -- until it does.
    This is logical fallacy.
    Not really.

    BTW, the ancient Greek "thinkers" also wrote some tons of B.S.
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  7. Video Restorer lordsmurf's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by jimdagys View Post
    What is to keep the Nigerian spammers from using a proxy or something like that to alter their IP? How would you stop those people if they did that?
    Nothing. But the thing is -- most don't.
    Even spammers, scammers and thieves aren't necessarily tech savvy.
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    "I can tell you've never admin'd/modded a forum."
    Nope -- never had the slightest desire to...

    "Banning users one by one is like killing ants one by one. It's futile."
    I wholeheartedly agree. It makes little sense to me. OTOH blocking ranges of IPs *might* not always make that much sense either. Where there's probably little harm from blocking the AfrNIC users as you've pointed out, the same can't always be said for a TOR exit node, or more towards the extreme, blocking ranges of IPs from whatever cable access servers, like the one black-list does. But as the guy in the TV ad says: "But I Digress". Just different points of view. At any rate I was wrong, figuring [incorrectly] that if something didn't make sense, it wouldn't be as common as it apparently is, & I really am glad I asked -- Thanks.

    "Your line of thought is mostly conspiracy."
    "This is logical fallacy."
    I politely & as respectfully as possible disagree, but that doesn't [or shouldn't anyway] matter in the least. If it interests or helps understand [otherwise please disregard]...

    I've encountered people whom for whatever reason behaved shall I say in an unbalanced fashion -- anyone that's ever worked retail has seen more than their share, I assure you. These people for the most part function & act normally, something sets them off, they do a Jekyll & Hyde, then return to whatever passes for normal, & may even brag about it to others. A while back Oprah made headlines for pulling just such a stunt in the EU [Paris was it?]. I've even had my life threatened by somebody I'd never seen before, never talked to, but I was the target of opportunity because I happened to be the employee within reach. It's more psychology than philosophy -- there's been quite a lot of research [resulting IMHO ironically in how you're sold products & ideas].

    If you can't tell for certain what any person/company/organization etc might do, you can at least be aware & minimize risks at a level that costs you a tolerable amount. Every retail store here for example tags merchandise & has detectors at the exits, in case someone tries to make off with something where the tag hasn't been removed or de-activated by the cashier. Regardless how effective it is or isn't, they believe the reduced risk is worth the cost, though this sort of system doesn't eliminate theft by any means. While I don't go as far as many people, I do believe in maintaining personal privacy to some degree. I personally don't feel there is a good reason for tracking & tying ip to posts -- it's the individual & not the ip that's either good or bad. I don't mind providing my IP to a site that I trust, &/or folks I've come to trust/respect like you, lordsmurf, but no offense what-so-ever, I can't say that about everyone -- just haven't come across them over the years to where that level of trust has been established. Cost to minimize that risk is low (TOR). Cost to minimize that risk if TOR was blocked is even lower -- don't post.

    That's not good or bad -- just is. And the point of explaining all that? I think I'm pretty average, meaning a fair amount of people usually feel the same way. Maybe voicing my opinions/perceptions on this is useful to those running the forum here at VideoHelp -- maybe not -- but they asked for feedback & there it is.
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    Originally Posted by lordsmurf View Post
    Originally Posted by jimdagys View Post
    What is to keep the Nigerian spammers from using a proxy or something like that to alter their IP? How would you stop those people if they did that?
    Nothing. But the thing is -- most don't.
    Even spammers, scammers and thieves aren't necessarily tech savvy.
    As pointed out by a common argument on the TOR & other privacy sites, THEY have the incentive to pay or whatever else necessary to become expert -- the average user doesn't.
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  10. Video Restorer lordsmurf's Avatar
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    Things don't work the way you think they do.

    Some of your arguments are based on sound logic -- but ultimately incorrect.
    Some of your arguments are based on fallacy logic -- and equally incorrect.

    I know, it's not easy to grasp or understand.

    And anytime you do anything online, everybody has your IP.
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    Please don't think I'm ungrateful or unappreciative of the time & effort you've spent lordsmurf, but I think this is just one of those things or times where no one is going to change their views or perceptions. Yours are based on logic, which is perfectly fine. Mine are based on experience & observation, including some experiences that I sincerely hope you never have.

    You use logic, probably combined with your experiences, believing that the bad guys are lazy or inept or whatever. I think perhaps you haven't come across those that aren't. Assuming you're not in charge of security at my bank , there's no harm that I can see in believing the bad guys are dummies, so I have no desire to change your perspective. My perceptions are powered by memory more than logic -- it's difficult [if indeed possible] to convince myself those memories never existed.

    Far as human nature itself was involved in our conversation, I'd like very much to be able to approach it from a philosophical or a logical viewpoint... if experience would let me, then formal training wouldn't. And I consider myself only very mildly paranoid & cynical. I wouldn't want to change your perceptions if I could, lordsmurf, because I'm not qualified to make any judgment of what's worse: the consequences of getting caught unawares, or the different sort of tolls it takes otherwise -- & I've been in both situations.

    At any rate the upshot is that I got the info I needed [Thanks Again], while those running the site/forum have been exposed to my views -- from a marketing/CS perspective it's irrelevant if they're right or wrong, skewed or not -- though I'm not making any assumptions re: worth &/or merit &/or interest. Thanks for a great conversation.

    PS: 'bout the ip... if you can get it while I'm using TOR good for you. I'm impressed.
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  12. Greetings Supreme2k's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by mikiem View Post
    while those running the site/forum have been exposed to my views -- from a marketing/CS perspective it's irrelevant if they're right or wrong, skewed or not --
    "Exposing" them to your views accomplishes absolutely nothing. You are just another crackpot conspiracy theorist who believes the threats from forum admins regarding your IP. Your ramblings mean absolute shit to "a marketing perspective".

    Your TOR is a false sense of security too. Any decent tracer can (at the very least) discover that you are using it, and a marginally better one can blow right past your proxies and find your actual IP.

    There's too many people on message boards who think that:
    1. They are important enough for people to waste their time tracking them.
    2. Having one's IP is some magic spell that can get erase/replace their identity.

    A word of advice: None of those crazy things that they do with computers on movies are real. You can yell "ENHANCE!" all you want at a computer screen and it will not get a blurry, phone cam picture taken at night to look like it was taken in a professional studio with a 40 megapixel DSLR with a lighting crew. Typing your IP address into Google will not produce a photo album of you from birth until present day.
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    "Exposing" them to your views accomplishes absolutely nothing."
    A site needs traffic to thrive. Any community needs new blood or stagnates, becomes inbred, irrelevant, & eventually dies. At this moment the posted stats: "There are currently 443 users online. 15 members and 428 guests". While that's good from the perspective that folks are finding the videohelp forums, they'll leave, hopefully having solved whatever problem they Googled that brought them here. It's up to the community leaders/owners [*IF* they want to], to make it a place they might want to return to & hopefully join, in a world that's more *taken* with Facebook, blogs, & Twitter. That's the marketing part of it.
    " Your ramblings mean absolute shit to "a marketing perspective"."
    Though I clearly stated: "I'm not making any assumptions re: worth &/or merit &/or interest.", Everybody's views DO make a difference from a marketing perspective -- even yours. Unless you're just hoping to get lucky -- it happens -- with marketing you want/need to know what everyone thinks... a vocal minority strongly opposed has scuttled more than one effort.

    " You are just another crackpot conspiracy theorist who believes the threats from forum admins regarding your IP..."
    Not at all... 1st, you misunderstand the meaning of the word conspiracy -- simply, conspiracy is more than one person getting together to plan & act in concert. I apologize for not making it even more clear that I do not have any concerns regarding any group -- when people band together it's because of common interest/profit, & while the motives/results are not always positive, they tend to make sense & are somewhat predictable. An individual acting alone is an entirely different matter, as you've shown. Thanks for helping proving that point. No offense, Really, but with the name calling and all it appears you're upset with my views, & your post reads like an attack based on who I am -- not on something I've done, & certainly not in defense for anything I said or did to you personally. In fact, I can't see anything in this thread [which you voluntarily read BTW ] that has any effect on you.

    Had I posted my phone number could I expect a crank call or 3?... I have no idea, but I didn't put my phone number down because there was no upside in it for me. Does that mean you couldn't find my number some other way? Not at all, but I see absolutely no reason for me to make it easier. The same for my ip. Exactly.

    "There's too many people on message boards who think that:
    1. They are important enough for people to waste their time tracking them.
    2. Having one's IP is some magic spell that can get erase/replace their identity."
    RE: point number 1: Your basic concept is I think correct, & you'll find it spelled out in the docs for TOR etc as an asset in maintaining privacy. At the same time however, no one has to present an easy target of opportunity.

    RE: point number 2: I actually agree totally. Using my example of a phone number, in most cases giving it out can result in an annoyance that's easily avoided by caller ID &/or screening. Yet I don't see anyone posting their phone numbers or email addresses in their sig lines. Myself, I'm not so afraid of giving out my ip, but like my phone number & email, I see absolutely no reason for sharing it when it's not necessary -- doing so provides no benefits to me at all & has potential downsides, so I simply choose not to. That doesn't mean no one can get my ip or anything else, but as you've just said, I'm 1 tiny fish in a very large school, so by using a proxy there's even less incentive for anyone to bother.

    Thanks, Supreme2K, for your input/post -- I do mean that.
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  14. Member AlanHK's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by lordsmurf View Post
    I can tell you've never admin'd/modded a forum. Banning users one by one is like killing ants one by one. It's futile. You do much better knocking out a whole range (poisoning whole ant bed). 41.0.0.0, for example. Bye-bye AfriNIC users (Nigerian spammers, etc). Very little legit traffic from the 41 range, for English-speaking sites.
    41.0.0.0 includes South Africa. I'm sure they'd be happy to be blocked along with Nigeria, 4000 km away, if it makes your life simpler.

    Living in Hong Kong as I do I am sometimes collateral damage in such blocks.

    I can't reliably email anyone at aol.com, since they have a hair trigger spam block that seems to block all Hong Kong ISPs most of the time. And I use a yahoo.com email account; it also sends many local emails into the spam box unless I whitelist them. While missing quite a few obvious spams from other places.

    I often see remarks (even boasts) that someone "blocks all of China", or even "all of Asia". I don't care what they do for their own mailbox, but if they are adminning a domain, or worse, an ISP, I consider it malignant bigotry.

    And I do admin a local forum; we have problems with Chinese (mainland) spammers. If someone tries to join up with a bunch of "WOW Gold" or sportshoe links in their sig, we delete the account immediately. We got rid of most of the dumb automated spam with some questions users have to answer before they can sign up.
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  15. Video Restorer lordsmurf's Avatar
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    If you're not in the site's target audience, then the admin doesn't care.

    You should place blame on your neighbors, not the site.
    After all, they're the dumb bastards that are ruining it for you and other legit traffic in the area.
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  16. Member AlanHK's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by lordsmurf View Post
    If you're not in the site's target audience, then the admin doesn't care.

    You should place blame on your neighbors, not the site.
    After all, they're the dumb bastards that are ruining it for you and other legit traffic in the area.
    90% of the spam I get originates IN THE USA. Spam was INVENTED in the USA.
    Put your own house in order before you lecture anyone else.


    And how the hell do you know I'm not part of the "target audience"?

    The dumb bastards are those Americans who think that everyone on the other side of the Pacific are part of The Evil Empire.

    How would you react if you found your access was blocked because of what one of "your neighbours" in Mexico, say, did?
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