'rewrite' doesn't mean 'overwrite deleted stuff'?

[vimipa]

I use DVD+RW in a Philips DVD Recoder/VCR. If I delete a recording, that space does not become available for recording again. Is this normal? I thought 'rewritable' means you can delete and reuse the space

[jagabo]

I don't know about your Philips in particular, but it depends on the device. Some can indeed reuse space created by deleting recordings, some cannot. The latter can only reformat the discs (losing all recordings) to make them look empty again.

[lowellriggsiam]

I've always had to erase the disc

[vimipa]

Thanks for responding. It seems hard to get a clear answer about this! Basically I want to know if DVD+RW works like VHS tapes in that you can fill the tape up, take it out, put it back in and then 'overwrite' it, as many times as you want.

So when using DVD+RW, and you have recorded say 4 episodes of Lost and the DVD is full, it is possible to delete one episode and reuse that space to record something else, or isn't it?

Sometimes on my device I can do that - the 'time available' shown goes up when I delete something - but sometimes I can't. Does it depend on the make of DVD? I haven't done a test yet but it seems to work with Maxell disks but not with cheaper ones. But then that doesn't make sense, if 'rewritable' means 'you can delete an episode and the space is then available for recording something else'. Or does 'rewritable' just mean that you can record stuff, take the disk out, put it back and record more, until the disk is full???

There's also the matter of 'finalizing', which I've never understood and which may be relevant here...argh how can it be so complicated!!!

[ckdexterhn]

No, a RW disc does not work like a VHS tape. You get the space back if you reformat the entire disc. Your recorder might detect some of the extra space when deleting a program, but that's in the way your recorder reads the disc.

[vimipa]

Thanks ckdex! So that's that: you're stuck wth you have recorded, or you have to lose everything by reformatting right?

Is it even technically impossible to make DVDs work like VHS tapes? Being able to delete and reuse the space, without having to lose everything on the disk, is obviously desirable: was this some tradeoff that had to made for the other advantages of DVDs?

[jagabo]

I believe there is also a difference in DVD+RW and DVD-RW, the latter always requiring a full format to recover space. Note: that doesn't mean any particular device can delete individual files to create free space on +RW, that's up to the firmware of the device.

I have a Panasonic ES-15 in the house right now. I just made four recordings of ~10 or ~15 minutes each in XP mode. When done, it indicated there was 6 minutes of available recording space. I deleted the first and third recordings. It indicated there was 11 minutes available. I delete the fourth recording and it said there was 36 minutes available. I deleted the second recording and there was once again 1 hour of space available.

So, on the ES-15, with DVD+RW, it looks like deleting files does free up space but each new recording requires contiguous space. After deleting the first and third recording the largest contiguous space was 11 minutes, even though I had deleted about 20 minutes of recordings and. After deleting the forth recording the largest contiguous space as 36 minutes (space previously occupied by recordings 3, 4, and the original empty 6 minutes). After the second recording was deleted all 60 minutes was available as one contiguous space again.

[CobraPilot]

FWIW, I have two DVDR's, different manufacturers (LiteOn, Protron), on which I've always used DVD+RWs. Both have an "overwrite" option for any video already on a disc.

From the LiteOn manual (similar language in the Protron manual):

Overwriting a Title

When you apply the function to a title, it will be deleted and overwritten when you record new title/program next time. . . . .

• After the ‘Overwrite’ function is switched on, new recording will be saved in the slot previously occupied by the overwritten title. If the new program lasts longer than the old one, it will be recorded continuously. To prevent accidental erasure, it is suggested that you activate the ‘Protect’ function for the title immediately following the overwritten one.
• Available recording time shown for the overwritten slot may not be exact, as it is likely to be affected by the recording mode of the overwritten title.

Is "overwriting" an option for your recorder? (Does your manual explain when "finalizing" is needed?)

[AlanHK]

There's also the matter of 'finalizing', which I've never understood

Means making the disc readable by normal DVD players.
(It appears to be a normal burnt DVD.)
You will have to reformat to reuse it for recording.

[LCSHG]

A DVD disk is not Like a HDD in that it will place parts Of a file \or program in any space available. The only way to gain additional space on a RW disk is to erase the LAST recorded file Over Writing a file is not a good idea
A RW disk Should be completely/Fully Erased . Most units will also format the disk also [for future use\

A +RW Disk is not Finlized [EVER ] Most recorders will not do so

[jagabo]

There's also the matter of 'finalizing', which I've never understood

DVDs have a fixed location for the the root directory, the master table of contents (TOC). That is what regular DVD players use to determine what's on the disc. Once the master TOC has been written to a DVD+/-R it cannot be modified. So DVD recorders avoid writing to the master TOC. Instead they write temporary TOCs elsewhere while adding to, deleting from, or otherwise modifying the contents of the disc (ie, adding "sessions"). Regular DVD players don't know about these temporary TOCs. Finalizing is the process of writing the master TOC so regular DVD players can see what's on the disc.

[ckdexterhn]

Thanks ckdex! So that's that: you're stuck wth you have recorded, or you have to lose everything by reformatting right?

Is it technically impossible to make DVDs work like VHS tapes? Being able to delete and reuse the space, without having to lose everything on the disk, is obviously desirable: was this some tradeoff that had to made for the other advantages of DVDs?

It is not possible the way you are stating it with the formats you are currently using. If you were using a DVD recorder with a hard drive, you would be able to record and arrange your shows before finalizing to a disc.