Hauppauge WinTV-HVR 1850 Questions

[edDV]

Back in February, I looked at virtually every TV recording device available for the PC. There were very few NTSC-tuner only cards then too.
There were some combo or hybrid tuner cards from Avermedia with similar features to Hauppauge's WinTV-HVR 1850, sold in a retail package.
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16815100046
http://www.amazon.com/AverMedia-MTVCBPCIW-Avertv-Combo-PCIE/dp/B000MN8QR4

I bought this instead: http://www.frys.com/product/6119069?site=sr:SEARCH:MAIN_RSLT_PG It did not come with a composite adapter, but one can be purchased here http://www.diamondmm.com/store/product.php?productid=16342&cat=16&page=1

I purchased the USB version 650 yesterday at Fry's for $39.99. I haven't installed it yet but maybe we should start a fresh ATI 650 thread. I got the USB version so it can be moved among 5 computers. I'm hoping MCE can see it.

The USB version has composite and S-Video input connectors.

[jagabo]

LOL. Everybody's getting an AMD 650 device now! I got the USB version a month ago when it was on sale at Fry's. The 3d comb filter definitely helped with composite capture. It was a little sharper than the PVR-250. I couldn't get the software tuner working with ATI's software but Win7's media center worked with it. VirtualDub captures from it just fine (raw YUY2). It did have some issues though. I couldn't find any way to completely disable its automatic gain control for the video.

[edDV]

Glad to hear it works with MCE and for YUY2 capture. I won't have time to play with it until next weekend.

I wanted something I can connect to a ramdom Windows machine out in the field. Not a stick but manageable.

[SHS]

- NMeade's computer spec is a Celeron 2.26GHz and OS is XP home.
It is unlikely he has a PCIe slot.

Depend on the motherbaord there are a few 478 mother that do have 1x PCIe on them
Like from BIOSTAR and ECS just name a few

- I've got an HVR-1600 (PCI slot), a PVR-250 and a PVR-350. I see no improvement for SD capture with the HVR-1600 vs PVR cards. If anything it seems slightly worse.

Yup heard the same from other that some don't and some do see a small improvement over 350 and 250

- NMeade will be capturing from a Wii composite NTSC source.

Do keep in mind that newer the Video Digitizer is the better improvement you see like with less artifacts like Dot Crawl artifacts, Chroma artifacts, etc, etc which is one of the main reason why I like the ATI 550/650 and HVR 1600, 1800, 2250.

- As for Hauppauge card availablity, I've noticed almost all the PVR cards with NTSC tuner have disappeared from the retail channel. Are there other than HVR cards available for SD only capture that aren't OEM?

Even the PVR OEM MCE Model are pettey much gone to
Hauppauge can't not make any more analog tuner base PVR they have be Hybird Tuner or Combo Tuner that why all new card have a name change to HVR "Hybird Video Recorder" do you recall Feb 17, 2009 that was day when all of the air analog local channel got shut off other then cable but even in a few more years even cable analog has be turn off eventhing to go digital.

1. My understanding is the HVR-16xx and 18xx are similar except for PCI vs. PCIe bus. Is this true?

There is a diff in chipset the 1800, 1850 have Conexant CX23417 where 1600 has a Conexant CX23418

2. Are you familliar with the OEM Hauppauge 558? It appears to be a tunerless PVR. At half the price of the HVR-1850, it seems a good fit for NMeade.
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16815116021

Yes I know about this card it very old design and dosen't all work well pass Windows 2000

3. I've seen HVR-12xx cards on sale. How do they compare to the PVR-250 for SD capture?

It base on software capture encoding

[NMeade]

Back in February, I looked at virtually every TV recording device available for the PC. There were very few NTSC-tuner only cards then too.
There were some combo tuner cards from Avermedia with similar features to Hauppauge's WinTV-HVR 1850, sold in a retail package.
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16815100046
http://www.amazon.com/AverMedia-MTVCBPCIW-Avertv-Combo-PCIE/dp/B000MN8QR4

I bought this instead: http://www.frys.com/product/6119069?site=sr:SEARCH:MAIN_RSLT_PG It did not come with a composite adapter, but one can be purchased here http://www.diamondmm.com/store/product.php?productid=16342&cat=16&page=1

Mm I looked at some sample videos using the AverMedia capture card you linked there and I liked it a lot, and the price isn't that bad.

If I were to purchase a capture card like that (the AverMedia one) would I have to use the remote for my recording ? Or could I just use it from recording software that comes with it (if it comes with recording software) ? I'm interested in how much of a hassle it would be to buy a capture card like one of those.

[jagabo]

I haven't used that device but usually the remote for use with Window Media Center. There is usually software included that lets you record by pressing an on-screen button or a key on the keyboard.

[NMeade]

I haven't used that device but usually the remote for use with Window Media Center. There is usually software included that lets you record by pressing an on-screen button or a key on the keyboard.

That's what I was hoping for. Now I understand that the capture card would be put into the PCI slot of my computer ... then I am pretty sure there are wires that would come out to connect to my Wii. Would it be useful to buy those Wii S-Video cables to go along with it ?

[jagabo]

That Avermedia card has an s-video input and comes with a little composite to s-video adapter (it probably just routes the comosite signal to the luma pin on the s-video connector and does the luma/chroma separation on-board). You should be able to capture from either. How much better the direct s-video connection is will depend on the quality of the card's luma/chroma separator and comb filter are.

[NMeade]

That Avermedia card has an s-video input and comes with a little composite to s-video adapter (it probably just routes the comosite signal to the luma pin on the s-video connector and does the luma/chroma separation on-board). You should be able to capture from either. How much better the direct s-video connection is will depend on the quality of the card's luma/chroma separator and comb filter are.

I can sort of see what you are saying ... Now I'm trying to put an image in my mind to construct to see how I could put this all together.

Basically, it would go like this (if I thought of it correct) :

Imput the card into the PCI Slot ---> Plug in the S-Video Adapter ---> Plugs go from the S-Video Adapter to the Wii S-Video cables plugged in, resulting in the recording + capture of gameplay via the Wii, while the other cables on the Wii S-Video cables plug into my TV so I can play via my TV.

Did I get it right ? I want to be as comfortable as possible with how to set something like this up before I go purchasing something that is going to be ~$120 or so in costs, I want to be extremely sure.

[usually_quiet]

I can sort of see what you are saying ... Now I'm trying to put an image in my mind to construct to see how I could put this all together.

Basically, it would go like this (if I thought of it correct) :

Imput the card into the PCI Slot ---> Plug in the S-Video Adapter ---> Plugs go from the S-Video Adapter to the Wii S-Video cables plugged in, resulting in the recording + capture of gameplay via the Wii, while the other cables on the Wii S-Video cables plug into my TV so I can play via my TV.

Did I get it right ? I want to be as comfortable as possible with how to set something like this up before I go purchasing something that is going to be ~$120 or so in costs, I want to be extremely sure.

You said PCI slot... I hope this is just a typo. If not, we have to find some new candidates for you. Most of the internal TV + capture cards we've been discussing don't work in a PCI slot. They use a PCI-e 1X slot instead,

[jagabo]

Most of the internal TV + capture cards we've been discussing don't work in a PCI slot. They use a PCI-e 1X slot instead,

Yes, the linked to Avermedia card requires PCIe 1x slot.

Imput the card into the PCI Slot ---> Plug in the S-Video Adapter ---> Plugs go from the S-Video Adapter to the Wii S-Video cables plugged in, resulting in the recording + capture of gameplay via the Wii, while the other cables on the Wii S-Video cables plug into my TV so I can play via my TV.

No, the Avermedia card has an s-video input on the card. The adapter lets you use a composite input. So, assuming the Wii puts out both s-video and composite at the same time (very likely), you have two options:

Wii (s-video + composite cable): s-video to Avermedia card, composite to TV
Wii (s-video + composite cable): composite to adapter to Avermedia card, s-video to TV

The first of those two options has the potential to get you better recordings. It depends on how the Wii (or the cable) creates the s-video signal, and how the Avermedia card treats the input. The same is true for the TV -- it may display a better picture with the s-video signal, maybe not, for the same reasons.

Some devices generate a composite signal first. They create s-video from that composite signal with a cheap composite to s-video circuit. In this case you usually get better looking video from the composite output -- because the cheap circuit does a bad job of separating the luma and chroma for s-video, and the capture/display device does nothing to clean it up (it is expecting a clean signal via s-video). If you send the composite signal directly to the capture/display device, it may use a better circuit and give a better recording/picture.

The more likely scenario is that the Wii generates a s-video signal first, then creates the composite signal from that. In this case, the s-video is clean and will get you better capture/display quality than using the composite signal.

[usually_quiet]

There's something else about Avermedia cards you should know. OEM or "white box" versions as well as retail versions of these products are available. The retail versions are more expensive, but if you plan to use the Avermedia's capture software you need to buy the retail package. The OEM or "white box" versions must be used with third-party software. Avermedia has recently started doing something to the OEM or "white box" versions that prevents them from being used with the Avermedia software provided for the retail version.

[edDV]

NMeade

Here is a way to ID which type card slots you have

On this motherboard, The long slot at the top is PCIe x16

The short slots below are PCIe 1x as needed by most of these tuners.

The three lower slots are conventional PCI which would be common on an older Celeron machine.

[NMeade]

NMeade

Here is a way to ID which type card slots you have

On this motherboard, The long slot at the top is PCIe x16

The short slots below are PCIe 1x as needed by most of these tuners.

The three lower slots are conventional PCI which would be common on an older Celeron machine.


[Attachment 2251 - Click to enlarge]

Is it just me, or does my motherboard not have any PCI slots at all o_O



I don't know what options I really have now ...

[jagabo]

It looks like there are three available PCI slots (the empty white connectors), no PCIe (PCI Express) slots.

The HVR-1600 (PCI) is probably closest to the HVR-1850 (PCIe) you linked to in your first post.

[edDV]

Those are conventional PCI, not PCIe.

There are PCI capture cards with hardware MPeg2 including the Hauppauge PVR-150/250/350/500 and the HVR-1600 like I have (with HD tuner). Avermedia and others also have cards. I'm not aware of a PCI version of the ATI 650 but they do make a USB2 model that I recently purchased*.

I'd recommend a used Hauppauge PVR card for your needs. I bought my PVR-350 on Craigslist for $40. The guy just bought a 64bit Win7 system. The PVR cards lack 64bit drivers but work fine with 32bit Win7 and 32 bit XP.


* My AMD dual core laptop is struggling with this device. A Celeron would be more of a challenge.

[edDV]

Since you aren't interested in HD tuners, I'd avoid the HVR-1600 for that computer. It works best in a Core2 Duo up. Get a PVR.

[jagabo]

There is a PCI version of the ATI 650: http://www.amazon.com/ATI-TV-Wonder-650-Tuner/dp/B00138CJD4/

[NMeade]

Alright well I'll choose from a PVR most likely but I want to see what type of quality it is before I choose it though, and there aren't many samples on YouTube.

[edDV]

There is a PCI version of the ATI 650: http://www.amazon.com/ATI-TV-Wonder-650-Tuner/dp/B00138CJD4/

That may be the answer. Enough of us now have 650's so we can help.

The Catalyst software really lags on my AMD dual core laptop but with patience, it captures fine.

[NMeade]

There is a PCI version of the ATI 650: http://www.amazon.com/ATI-TV-Wonder-650-Tuner/dp/B00138CJD4/

That may be the answer. Enough of us now have 650's so we can help.

The Catalyst software really lags on my AMD dual core laptop but with patience, it captures fine.

So I guess with my computer specs it would lag even more ? I watched a few videos on Youtube (sample videos), the quality is ok, my only question is that there are any better PCI cards than this one before the step to the HD PVR ? If not, I will probably get this one ..

[usually_quiet]

I'm sorry to have to say this, but with the PC you have, your best options are probably limited to one of the Hauppauge PVR series cards or something similar to what you already have. Since I had my previous PC for 8 years, I can sympathize.

[Edit]Here's a link to the manufacturer's page for the 650 PCI. http://www.diamondmm.com/TVW650PCIV.php You are nor far above the minimum CPU. If you decide you want to try it, you will also need to order the cable I linked to earlier. http://www.diamondmm.com/store/produ...&cat=16&page=1

[NMeade]

I'm sorry to have to say this, but with the PC you have, your best options are probably limited to one of the Hauppauge PVR series cards or something similar to what you already have. Since I had my previous PC for 8 years, I can sympathize.

[Edit]Here's a link to the manufacturer's page for the 650 PCI. http://www.diamondmm.com/TVW650PCIV.php You are nor far above the minimum CPU. If you decide you want to try it, you will also need to order the cable I linked to earlier. http://www.diamondmm.com/store/produ...&cat=16&page=1

Ugh I was trying to stretch away from the Diamond series ... (the capture card I have now is the Diamond VC500) all because of the recording software, poor choice of resolution choices for recording etc ...

[jagabo]

If you use VirtualDub to capture standard definition raw YUY2 with the ATI 650 and compress with HuffYUV you should have no problems with a 2.6 GHz Celeron (overclocked to 3.4 GHz?). This is the highest quality capture you can get from the ATI 650.

I don't think there would be a problem capturing standard definition MPEG 2 (compressed by the 650) with that CPU either. At most, the CPU has to decode the MPEG 2 video to display it on the screen.

Only when using the QAM or ATSC tuner to capture high definition MPEG 2 (compressed by the broadcaster or cable company) will you need a beefy CPU to decode and display the video.

[jagabo]

Ugh I was trying to stretch away from the Diamond series ... (the capture card I have now is the Diamond VC500) all because of the recording software, poor choice of resolution choices for recording etc ...

I don't know anything about the VC500 but the ATI 650 is better at capturing analog video than any of the Hauppauge cards. Especially from a composite source. If you use VirtualDub you have full control over capture properties. But you will not be using the hardware MPEG2 encoder on the card. You will be creating AVI files that you can later convert to MPEG2 or whatever.

[edDV]

If you use VirtualDub to capture standard definition raw YUY2 with the ATI 650 and compress with HuffYUV you should have no problems with a 2.6 GHz Celeron (overclocked to 3.4 GHz?). This is the highest quality capture you can get from the ATI 650.

I don't think there would be a problem capturing standard definition MPEG 2 (compressed by the 650) with that CPU either. At most, the CPU has to decode the MPEG 2 video to display it on the screen.

Only when using the QAM or ATSC tuner to capture high definition MPEG 2 (compressed by the broadcaster or cable company) will you need a beefy CPU to decode and display the video.

I generally agree but for whatever reason the Catalyst Media Center software runs in slow motion with a weak CPU (Athlon 64 X2 TK-55 1.8 GHz + 2GB RAM) but once set, the hardware encoding proceeds, the capture continues well. Playback is a function of the display card.

I've yet to try Virtualdub for uncompressed capture. I also want to try it on my Pentium 4 machine running XP and BeyondTV 4 (currently with a PVR-250).

[NMeade]

Ugh I was trying to stretch away from the Diamond series ... (the capture card I have now is the Diamond VC500) all because of the recording software, poor choice of resolution choices for recording etc ...

I don't know anything about the VC500 but the ATI 650 is better at capturing analog video than any of the Hauppauge cards. Especially from a composite source. If you use VirtualDub you have full control over capture properties. But you will not be using the hardware MPEG2 encoder on the card. You will be creating AVI files that you can later convert to MPEG2 or whatever.

Ah that is the biggest sigh of relief because I always use .avi format because I make my own custom mp3 track in Audacity and import it into Virtualdub, do my editing, and save it as a .avi and encode it. If the ATI 650 has better capture than the Hauppauge cards, I may as well go with it then.

[edDV]

Diamond just manufactures ATI hardware and uses ATI drivers and software. You are dealing with an ATI product with Diamond support. If you want ATI support, you buy the same product from them.

[jagabo]

You can download drivers from ATI though.

[usually_quiet]

Just something to think about because the PCI version of the TV Wonder 650 HD is a little harder to find at a good price than the USB version and you need to buy the adapter cable. TigerDirect still has the USB version for $49.99 with free shipping at the moment and you don't need a composite adapter cable for it. http://www.tigerdirect.com/applications/SearchTools/item-details.asp?EdpNo=3584099&CatId=1427 It has composite ports.