Adobe Encore

[mobie29]

What are the pros and cons for using this software as a blu ray authoring tool? I have many HD mpeg-2 files that i would like to author to blu ray and i was curious to know if this program does a good job.

Also, is photoshop included in this software?

thanks for your replys

[poisondeathray]

Photoshop is not included (unless you buy one of the suites) . Encore comes with Premiere Pro. You need CS4/5 for blu-ray authoring, earlier versions don't work

Pros: Easy to use, pop up menus, motion menus, free (with Premiere or one of the Adobe Suites)



Cons: Encoder isn't too good in terms of quality. If your stream is compliant, it will by pass the encoder (i.e. allow pass through), so you could use another encoder - it's usually not a big issue.

Most replication plants will reject discs made by Encore - not an issue if this is for home use only.

Will not author HD content on DVD5/9 media (i.e only accepts blu-ray media) - not a big issue, as you can re-author with the free multiAVCHD

[mobie29]

This is great info.!! Actually, Adobe uses the Main concept encoder which i am not too thrilled about so i could bypass that and just purchase the photoshop which i am more interested in anyway.

Do you know if most replication plants would accept discs that are compiled using TMPGEnc Authoring Works 4?? I believe i can import photoshop into TMPGEnc and use as a templete menu and author to blu ray, unless you have any other suggestions.

thanks so much!!

[poisondeathray]

Do you know if most replication plants would accept discs that are compiled using TMPGEnc Authoring Works 4??

Probably not. You usually need $$ for Scenarist or Blu-Code, or pay someone to do it. These consumer tools usually make discs that play, but do not pass the BD verifier. It wouldn't hurt to ask and double check with the company if you are planning to replicate

I believe i can import photoshop into TMPGEnc and use as a templete menu and author to blu ray, unless you have any other suggestions.

Sure you can ; you can even do it for free tools with gimp, irfanview and multiavchd. I've made plenty of discs that play in a variety of players with multiavchd. But when you are replicating discs, it's another level and requires everything to strict standards

[mobie29]

Yes, there is a company this is very impressed with my project's video quality, editing, and sound, but i need to upgrade my menu presentation. Photoshop was suggested. Are there anymore "photoshop" type software that would give me professional results??

[poisondeathray]

It depends on what type of menu you are doing, and how fancy you want to get.

Photoshop is the gold standard, for both professionals and non-professionals for static raster images and photos.

For vector graphics you would want to use something like Illustrator. For fancy motion menus, most people would use something like After Effects or Nuke. For 3D work, you'd want to use something like 3dsmax or Cinema4D

But you can get similar results as photoshop with the free, open source gimp. It maybe harder to use, and less stable, but there is a huge community and forums dedicated to helping.

If you're going to replicate (pressed) this for retail, make sure you check with the plant to see what they will/will not accept.

[mobie29]

Actually, the company will do the replication. I would send them the master with menus.

I will look at the opensource gimp. I also use multiavchd which is great, but there are no updated tutorials which is a must for a newbie like me.

thanks for your help!!!

[poisondeathray]

Actually, the company will do the replication. I would send them the master with menus.

I will look at the opensource gimp. I also use multiavchd which is great, but there are no updated tutorials which is a must for a newbie like me.

thanks for your help!!!

I don't quite understand. Are you just sending them the assets and they will do the authoring ? ie. you send them the raw elementary streams, audio, and a "static menu" and they put it together with the right sequences, chapters etc, for you ?

If the finished "master" isn't authored correctly, it won't pass. Errors will pop up in the replication process. I learned this the hard way when I authored in Encore . It had to be taken apart and re-authored properly in scenarist

[mobie29]

No, from what i understand, i will do the authoring with menus complete and in sequence. My disc has to pass inspection before they will replicate.

So you have gone through this process before??

[poisondeathray]

Yes; hence my warning at the beginning about Encore

I passed off what you would call a finished "master" and it was a "no go".

I suspect most consumer level software will have similar issues (DVDA does too), and this is why I suggested you check with the plant specifically if they have any authoring requirements or warnings...

[mobie29]

So you tested your "master" on many different stand alone dvd players and they passed the test, but when you sent it to the company, the disc failed in their testing?? I thought Encore would be considered one of the "industry" standards like photoshop.

[poisondeathray]

So you tested your "master" on many different stand alone dvd players and they passed the test, but when you sent it to the company, the disc failed in their testing?? I thought Encore would be considered one of the "industry" standards like photoshop.

Was that a typo? Surely you mean blu-ray players, not DVD players ?>

Yes, that time I even tested on a Panasonic BD-50 which is *known* to be very finicky. (The Sony players play virtually anything, even non compliant discs)

It didn't pass and the guy said it was Encore's fault. When it was re-authored in Scenarist by a friend, everything worked out fine

Both the streams and the authoring have to be compliant. You can't just mux in any old stream, and just use any old authoring tool - at least not for replication. Maybe the services you intend on using are less picky?

Encore is hardly an industry standard. Photoshop is, After Effects is, Illustrator is for their respective industries.

For blu-ray authoring, Scenarist and Blu-Code are the standards. (They also cost $40-50 K)

[mobie29]

Yes, i meant blu ray.

What is the industry standard for SD DVD? This is also an option for me. They were also impressed with my SD DVD demo i sent them.

This is very helpful information. Thanks so much!!

[poisondeathray]

I haven't replicated a SD-DVD , but I would guess that Scenarist is the standard (or at least one of them). DVD replication and production is very mature, so I suspect most software wouldn't have as much "growing pains" as blu-ray right now. Blu-ray is only recently starting to catch steam, and we are on 3rd and 4th generation software now - who knows it might be soon up to par (I mean the consumer versions). It probably was a nightmare replicating DVD's in the early days as well - maybe some of the old timers in this forum can share stories

I should mention my failure was with CS4; CS5 might have fixed some issues. Eitherway, you should double check with the plant, it might save you a lot of headache later on

Good luck

[videopoo]

Encore does not output a BDCMF image for replication so there is no way to replicate with it. However there is a tool called Blu Streak from Rivergate software that will take your BDMV file set and create a compliant BDCMF which has passed Sony verifers and has replicated several titles on store shelves.

http://blustreak.dvdafteredit.com/blustreak-premaster-overview

Only Scenarist, Blu Print and Do Studio will allow BDCMF images.

BTW, Encore is very buggy software

[multiAVCHD]

[QUOTE=poisondeathray;1991455]

Sure you can ; you can even do it for free tools with gimp, irfanview and multiavchd. I've made plenty of discs that play in a variety of players with multiavchd. But when you are replicating discs, it's another level and requires everything to strict standards

Just a quick note: Sony Verifier reports multiAVCHD as compliant.

Read more here: http://forum.doom9.org/showthread.php?t=154192&highlight=verification


Quote:
Originally Posted by shon3i
Now officially Congratulations

Btw we have free Authoring app's with menus and chapters: multiAVCHD.


Quote:
Originally Posted by kieranrk
Did you check it with Sony Verifier?

Yes it passes, with few warnings, about missing AACS files and other unnecessary things.

[poisondeathray]

Yes , thanks Dean, I recall reading that.

Do you know if anyone successfully replicated a run of discs authored by multiavchd ?

[multiAVCHD]

I don't think anyone doing serious stuff will ever bother using multiAVCHD... It is a hobby software to make things a bit easier for home users. But still I'm glad it passes some trusted verifications.

After todays update (build 755) there are just few things left to make it 100% ok - there are some issues with the IG graphics which most players don't mind, but these issues got to go away soon.

[pijetro]

[QUOTE=poisondeathray;1991459]

If the finished "master" isn't authored correctly, it won't pass. Errors will pop up in the replication process. I learned this the hard way when I authored in Encore . It had to be taken apart and re-authored properly in scenarist

Just out of curiosity, was it CS4 you were using, or CS3?


And as the original poster's question, does Encore work well if you've supplied it with the correct encoded assets??
Yes. But so does many freeware apps.
But personally, i believe Encore is a better fit for those that want to do more advanced authouring, and jump between PPro, After Effects and Photoshop.

[poisondeathray]

Just out of curiosity, was it CS4 you were using, or CS3?

Hi, I mentioned that it was CS4 a few posts up (#14)

Cheers

[rallymax]

I've been asked by a friend to help with her DVD and Bluray mastering of her short film. So far she's been shipping it downgraded from 720p as SD DVD widescreen with a cheezy menu system from a Consumer level program. She now wants to make it more professional.

I have CS4 Production Premium so I'm wondering ----

Is it acceptable to sell the short film on DVD-R or BD-R authored from Encore?

I'm happy to drop the master video (DVCPRO-HD 720p in MOV wrapper) into x264 to get it bluray compliant instead of transcoding with the Encore/Adobe Media Encoder engine if it makes a better picture (or legal for that matter) too..

what would you suggest I do for her?
Send it off to a post house that can drop it into Scenarist or is Encore's output sufficently legal for her short-run, non-pressed disc sales?

[pijetro]

I have CS4 Production Premium so I'm wondering ----
Is it acceptable to sell the short film on DVD-R or BD-R authored from Encore?

Absolutely...That's why you paid for the software!!!!!
Encore uses Adobe Media Encoder internally...It's perfectly fine and legit.

As long as your video source is decent, then let Encore do the encode. Make an .ISO of your final output, and use IMGBurn to burn to disc..

[poisondeathray]

I've been asked by a friend to help with her DVD and Bluray mastering of her short film. So far she's been shipping it downgraded from 720p as SD DVD widescreen with a cheezy menu system from a Consumer level program. She now wants to make it more professional.

I have CS4 Production Premium so I'm wondering ----

Is it acceptable to sell the short film on DVD-R or BD-R authored from Encore?

I'm happy to drop the master video (DVCPRO-HD 720p in MOV wrapper) into x264 to get it bluray compliant instead of transcoding with the Encore/Adobe Media Encoder engine if it makes a better picture (or legal for that matter) too..

what would you suggest I do for her?
Send it off to a post house that can drop it into Scenarist or is Encore's output sufficently legal for her short-run, non-pressed disc sales?

Should be ok for non replicated BD, but encore won't author HD content on DVD media (you could use it for BD, then reauthor in multiavchd, if the bitrates are low enough for DVD media)

For replicated discs, use the post house or find a friend with scenarist

[rallymax]

thanks that's what I suspected - ie at this level of professional selling bluray or dvd "legal" output isn't necessary.

I'm not a huge fan of using Encore as the front end of AME for the transcode - Encore seems to crash a lot if you drop in assets that need transcoding so I prefer to drop in pass through assets.

I will most likely pre-transcode the master using AME to make the DVD's MPEG2 file.

Would you recommend that I encode the bluray version (720p) using x264 vs AME though? I think AME does an ok job with MPEG2 but it is my opinion that x264 does a better job on H264 compared to AME. (which is why I've been working on a x264 to AME plugin for the last 2 years on and off).

Note that the short film is 24minutes so I'll be able to max out the data rate and still fit it on a single layer BD-R for sale so this debate on AME vs x264 may be mute because there are bits-to-spare. (I definitely am not an expert at all on how encoding works so I may be completely wrong with that assumption though).

[rallymax]

Send it off to a post house that can drop it into Scenarist or is Encore's output sufficently legal for her short-run, non-pressed disc sales?

...snip...
Encore uses Adobe Media Encoder internally...It's perfectly fine and legit.
...snip...

To qualify what I meant - By "legal" I meant "bluray spec legal". From what PDR is saying it absolutely is not - and x264 can be as long as you use the correct command line (see other posts on this forum and doom9)

[pijetro]

IF you've got room to spare, i'd stay with Mpeg2, only since the encode times are faster.
Be careful about encoding HD contend outside of Encore....

I use AME's encoding engine and presets, and Encore requires a re-transcode. It's utterly stupid..Therefore, stick to Encore if you're planning on authouring with Encore.

x264 is amazing, but i doubt that most people would see a difference at delivery...

EDIT:

Encore is definately bluray spec legal.
The only problem is, some post houses burp up the information that Encore gave...But i believe this was because of the build, and not the Elementary streeams..

Look, if this is a personal venture, and you're looking to burn BDR's, then Encore is plenty well for what you and your customer need. I've played many a BDr on severaly settops and haven't had an issue with playback...

Good luck!!!

[poisondeathray]

It will depend on content complexity.

True, the difference are less at higher bitrates, but I've done tests where even at 30/40 Mb/s you can tell the difference between x264 and Mainconcept encoded blu-ray even at normal viewing distance (not pixel peeping). The biggest differences are in shadow regions where Mainconcept based AVC encoders are really weak. Even the MPEG2 for blu-ray often looks better in that respect (but worse in others , tend to be noisier and you can even see macroblocking even at blu-ray bitrates)

DVCPRO HD footage is usually very soft, so I suspect it won't be a problem for you if you use AME no matter what you choose

On the SD DVD side, AME not too bad, but I prefer CCE for encoding

[rallymax]

I've had great luck with importing x264 created .264 files so, fortunately for me, that's a good workflow for me.
Fortunately encode time doesn't often affect me. I can leave the computer chugging away at home until it's done.
If it does start to bite me I think I'll look at getting a nVidia Quadro card and using Elemental Accelerator.
http://www.elementaltechnologies.com/support/accelerator I have no idea what the quality of the encode is like though.

[rallymax]

...snip...
On the SD DVD side, AME not too bad, but I prefer CCE for encoding

Thanks, I'll have serious look at CCE if I need to start looking at encoding that requires very HQ and is funded. - I don't need it that good for my home use.

[pijetro]

I've had great luck with importing x264 created .264 files so, fortunately for me, that's a good workflow for me.
Fortunately encode time doesn't often affect me. I can leave the computer chugging away at home until it's done.
If it does start to bite me I think I'll look at getting a nVidia Quadro card and using Elemental Accelerator.
http://www.elementaltechnologies.com/support/accelerator I have no idea what the quality of the encode is like though.

Forget it....IT's getting old. They don't offer anything for 64bit.
You're better off sinking that money into CS5, or something with extra cores instead....

At least that way, you can enjoy x264's versatility...