HD Mini DV tapes to Digital

[oriopn5150]

Please help. I have 40+ HD Tapes from my Sony HDR-HC3 that I want to be able to actually watch/edit and maybe even burn some Blue Rays. I used to use Sony Vegas Movie Studio and Roxio HD DVDit, which I liked. But I only used them to do 1 or 2 projects. I bought a new Mac this year and that stuff no longer works. I am using Final Cut Express but it brings in the tapes in the AIC (Apple Intermediate Codec) which is like 80 gig per hour. I am going to buy a new Canon Vixia HF S21 to stop using tapes going forward. But now I have all these tapes just collecting dust that I'd like to start working with. So I have 2 questions. 1. What is the best format/"container" to save my original footage? I want the best quality to be preserved. I don't care about space and will buy more external drives to save all original footage in a safe deposit box then another copy to pull randomly and make some videos. Should I save as MPEG 4, MOV ????? I don;t know enough and the more I research the more confused I get. Question 2. What program should I use? FCE isn't flexible. So I was going to buy Final Cut Pro. I learned there are blue ray issues there though. I was looking into Adobe CS5 too. Never used it and may be way over my head. I am not looking to make professional movies or commercials but I do what to make "professional looking" home movies compilations. Maybe a Christmas Montage or birthdays or something. not sure yet. I know Blue Ray is another whole issue and I am thinking that by the time I complete some projects Blue Ray could be a non issue. Seems that everything is just staying in Digital format. i'm guessing I will eventually have a digital player that plays MPEG, Mov etc hooked up to my LED TV and that is how I will share with others. who knows - that may already exist. Anyway, for now I just want to get working on converting these tapes to a usable medium. I appreciate any feedback you have. I know this is a lot and probably over my head; But I am willing to learn. Thanks so much for your help.

[aedipuss]

if you had bought a pc you'd be able to store the HDV video in it's original format that is on the tape. that would be the ideal format to store them in. with a pc the free program HDVsplit will transfer them to a hard drive as 25mbps mpeg-2 - .m2t files. might be cheaper to buy a pc than adobe cs5 for the mac.

[zoobie]

most are saving HDV to extra HDD and/or discs
you can always edit HDV and then spit it back to the cam's tape, too
but not sure you can do it with a mac

[edDV]

Please help. I have 40+ HD Tapes from my Sony HDR-HC3 that I want to be able to actually watch/edit and maybe even burn some Blue Rays. I used to use Sony Vegas Movie Studio and Roxio HD DVDit, which I liked. But I only used them to do 1 or 2 projects. I bought a new Mac this year and that stuff no longer works. I am using Final Cut Express but it brings in the tapes in the AIC (Apple Intermediate Codec) which is like 80 gig per hour. I am going to buy a new Canon Vixia HF S21 to stop using tapes going forward. But now I have all these tapes just collecting dust that I'd like to start working with. So I have 2 questions.
1. What is the best format/"container" to save my original footage? I want the best quality to be preserved. I don't care about space and will buy more external drives to save all original footage in a safe deposit box then another copy to pull randomly and make some videos.

Dude, ever hear of paragraphs?

The best archive format for HDV is original HDV. Use your old PC and cap with HDVsplit.

I have PC and Mac but if you pushed me, I don't know how to archive HDV format on a Mac. I do it on my Windows PC. iMovie or FCE on a Mac capture to the Apple Intermediate Codec (60MB/hr) or downsize and deinterlace to 960x540p. Don't archive either of those.

Maybe another Mac user knows how to archive native HDV format on a MAC. I'd have to research non-Apple software.

Adobe Premiere Pro CS5 will cap and native edit HDV but are you ready to pay up for that?
FCP is part of Studio and costs about as much ($999).

Why is it you bought this Mac? Which Mac did you buy?

Should I save as MPEG 4, MOV ????? I don;t know enough and the more I research the more confused I get.

If you want to edit in FCE and make a Blu-Ray disk, you need additional Blu-Ray authoring software or third party AIC to AVCHD software. I don't do either on a Mac because of cost so others can comment.

MPeg4 will downgrade your HDV but is OK for informal viewing.

Question 2. What program should I use? FCE isn't flexible. So I was going to buy Final Cut Pro. I learned there are blue ray issues there though. I was looking into Adobe CS5 too. Never used it and may be way over my head. I am not looking to make professional movies or commercials but I do what to make "professional looking" home movies compilations. Maybe a Christmas Montage or birthdays or something. not sure yet. I know Blue Ray is another whole issue and I am thinking that by the time I complete some projects Blue Ray could be a non issue. Seems that everything is just staying in Digital format.

What is inflexible about FCE? Have you tried iMovie for the basics?

Final Cut Pro is just an editor. You need a separate Blu-Ray authoring program. The Studio suite ($999) includes DVD Studio Pro 4.

i'm guessing I will eventually have a digital player that plays MPEG, Mov etc hooked up to my LED TV and that is how I will share with others. who knows - that may already exist. Anyway, for now I just want to get working on converting these tapes to a usable medium. I appreciate any feedback you have. I know this is a lot and probably over my head; But I am willing to learn. Thanks so much for your help.

Use your old PC to archive your HDV tapes using HDV Split (~13GB/Hr) to a hard drive.
Keep the original tapes as backup.

Learn to use FCE or iMovie to edit simple home movies. Save those to MPeg4 for practice.

[oriopn5150]

Ok. Thanks Guys. But here is why I am still confused. So say I use HDV Split. I save as .M2T files on Hard Disk. Can I pull the .M2T files back into FCP or CS5 to edit at will. I don't know anything about .m2t. And when I edit them and want to save a final copy to share of say 1 to 2 hours of HD footage. What format do I save that in to have the best quality that can play on Quicktime or Windows etc.? As for $1000 - yes I am ready to spend whatever it takes to do it right the 1st time.

When I am done with the backups I want to edit many movies. I want them to be in the best quality too. And to save them forever. Maybe to Blue Ray not sure. I have authored blue ray before with Roxio HDDvdit. Sony Vaio laptop has blue ray burner. I was tired of using multiple apps from different companies that didn't always work great together. So everyone I talk to raves about Apple and the integration of Apple products. I love the computer and have had no problems to date. I was having my Windows Vista PC Crash all the time and reinstalling to factory settings. I have a IMCA OS X 10.6.3 2.8 GHz Intel Core 2 Duo. 2 GB 800MHz DDR2 SDRAM I may buy a Mac Pro soon.

[edDV]

Ok. Thanks Guys. But here is why I am still confused. So say I use HDV Split. I save as .M2T files on Hard Disk. Can I pull the .M2T files back into FCP or CS5 to edit at will. I don't know anything about .m2t. And when I edit them and want to save a final copy to share of say 1 to 2 hours of HD footage. What format do I save that in to have the best quality that can play on Quicktime or Windows etc.? As for $1000 - yes I am ready to spend whatever it takes to do it right the 1st time.

When I am done with the backups I want to edit many movies. I want them to be in the best quality too. And to save them forever. Maybe to Blue Ray not sure. I have authored blue ray before with Roxio HDDvdit. Sony Vaio laptop has blue ray burner. I was tired of using multiple apps from different companies that didn't always work great together. So everyone I talk to raves about Apple and the integration of Apple products. I love the computer and have had no problems to date. I was having my Windows Vista PC Crash all the time and reinstalling to factory settings. I have a IMCA OS X 10.6.3 2.8 GHz Intel Core 2 Duo. 2 GB 800MHz DDR2 SDRAM I may buy a Mac Pro soon.

HDV M2t files are MPeg2. There must be a simple way to capture these to the Mac without conversion. But if you capture to a Windows PC using HDVsplit, the captured file is identical to the tape data, i.e. still first generation.

FCE and FCP will convert these files to the Apple Intermediate Codec (AIC) on import. The AIC digital intermediate is used to convert GOP compressed MPeg2 into a sequence of low compressed frames to speed timeline responsiveness and reduce filter/effects processing times. The 60GB/hr AIC files can be stored mid project and reimported without further conversion. Or, when finished these can be exported through "Compressor" to a distribution format. Some commonly used distribution formats are. Some formats require resize from native 1440x1080 before compression.

1. For DVD or Blu-Ray, you would use Compressor, then DVD Studio Pro for authoring.

DVD (720x480 MPeg2)

Authored Blu-Ray (can be 1440x1080, 1920x1080, 1280x720, etc. in MPeg2, h.264 or VC1)

Simplified Blu-Ray (can be 1440x1080, 1920x1080, 1280x720, in AVCHD h.264 format)

2. For network distribution or for maximum playback time on DVDR media, several other higher compressed formats can be used . Compressor or third party encoders can be used. For example h.264, flash or various Quicktime formats.

See. Compressor description here
http://www.apple.com/finalcutstudio/compressor/

Formats supported are listed here.
http://www.apple.com/finalcutstudio/compressor/industry-standard-encoding.html

Unfortunately, iMovie and FCE have a more limited set of format export choices.

The Adobe CS5 Production Premium Suite ($1699 list) is an alternative to the Apple Studio suite. You will find wider support for export formats within Premiere Pro, After Effects, Encore and Flash.
http://www.adobe.com/products/creativesuite/production/?promoid=LHHS
http://www.adobe.com/products/creativesuite/production/openworkflows/

I suggest you start small and master FCE first. Maybe add Roxio Toast for DVD or AVCHD (for simple HD discs). It is a big step up to Studio or CS5. Keep the original *.m2t HDV files as archives.
http://www.roxio.com/enu/products/toast/titanium/overview.html

Also, check out the Mac forum here for additional information, starting with the three stickies at the top. There are many other FCP forums on the web.
https://forum.videohelp.com/forums/17-Mac

[dbroox]

i'm in a similar boat. i really want to sell my old miniDV cam, but i have 60+ miniDV tapes full of footage that i may want some day. if i sell my cam, i'll have nothing available to view my footage with.

as far as i can tell, the best option is to capture all the tapes to an HD (and back that HD up onto another HD)??? any other suggestions out there?

for the record, iMovie will capture your videos as raw .dv files. i've found that each miniDV tape takes around 20gb.

multiplied by 60 tapes and I'm looking at 1.2TB of raw footage. eep!

[edDV]

i'm in a similar boat. i really want to sell my old miniDV cam, but i have 60+ miniDV tapes full of footage that i may want some day. if i sell my cam, i'll have nothing available to view my footage with.

as far as i can tell, the best option is to capture all the tapes to an HD (and back that HD up onto another HD)??? any other suggestions out there?

for the record, iMovie will capture your videos as raw .dv files. i've found that each miniDV tape takes around 20gb.

multiplied by 60 tapes and I'm looking at 1.2TB of raw footage. eep!

Re: 20GB, did you shoot these tapes in LP mode? Normal 60min MiniDV capacity is ~13.5 GB. LP should only be used for emergencies and should be transferred ASAP.

If you shot LP you are in serious danger of losing that tape collection. LP uses narrow tracks and is not recommended for interchange. That means another MiniDV camcorder may not be able to play it. This gets worse for older tapes and with older worn camcorders.

So if I were you, I'd get two hard drives and get busy. Hard drives are cheap. The labor to transfer 60 tapes is the issue.

[dbroox]

yikes, yea i think (at least these tapes that i already ripped) were in LP mode. i think most of my more important/better footage tapes are not in LP mode.
thanks for the heads up!

maybe once i get to those tapes, i can get 2 - 1TB drives and have plenty of room. oh man this process is gonna suck!

[edDV]

yikes, yea i think (at least these tapes that i already ripped) were in LP mode. i think most of my more important/better footage tapes are not in LP mode.
thanks for the heads up!

maybe once i get to those tapes, i can get 2 - 1TB drives and have plenty of room. oh man this process is gonna suck!

Try one in the morning and one in the evening. Done in a month.

[dbroox]

actually... i work at home, so i could kick one off every hour or so and get this done in a matter of days.
thanks again for the tips.

[dbroox]

so i got most of these tapes captured but have a quick question....

iMovie captures the video as raw dv, but splits the video up into events (most of the time whenever you started/stopped the camera during recording). however, i have a few miniDV tapes where i printed my edited projects back to tape... it's still cutting these edits up into several individual events - but i want them as regular edits.

can you recommend a piece of software (osx) to import the edits and keep them together at full quality?
thanks!