Enhanced DVD - How?

[YTC]

I have a marketing DVD that is several videos linked off of a menu, as well as, PDFs linked from the DVD menu. I am using Encore CS3, which only gives an option to include a folder with the ROM files (PDFs and other documents). Currently, if the user puts the DVD into a standalone DVD player and clicks on the PDF link, a static image tells the user to play the DVD in a DVD-ROM player in their PC. So, I had to create a Flash exe with the same menu, except the flash menu will open the PDF. I have created an autorun to run the exe when inserted.

When I test the DVD, everything works as it should in a set top, but when I put it in the PC it still wants to open the DVD video file, instead of the exe. This can be confusing because the PDF link still says to insert it into the PC. How do I get the exe to play, before the DVD, when inserted into a PC? Or am I going about the whole thing wrong? The autorun works when it is tested with only ROM files. It is when the video files are added that makes the DVD video play first.

In a perfect world, when the DVD is inserted into the PC, the DVD video plays, it would sense that it is being played on a computer and would open the PDF when the link is clicked. This way, I would only have to worry about DVD video files, instead of having to deal with an exe. I remember e-dvd being able to do this. But that is in a perfect world, and I am willing to take baby steps if there are other options.

[filmboss80]

...Or am I going about the whole thing wrong?

Absolutely. Author your DVD so that the First Play is a DVD-compliant navigational graphic (no PDFs, Flash files, application launchers or anything else at the start). Keep in mind that Autorun features can vary from PC to PC (mine has Autorun shut off), so you cannot rely on that.

It wouldn't hurt if your instruction to play the disc on the PC is actually printed on the disc and outer label.

Your "perfect world" scenario is backwards: It is up to the PC or DVD player to sense what sort of disc is being played; not up to the disc to determine which device it's being played on (no sensing circuitry inside the disc).

If this is indeed a marketing disc, you don't want to force the target market to jump through all of your hoops. (If I were the potential client, I'd throw out the disc at the first sign of frustration.) Consider making all your graphics DVD-friendly bitmap images. Torturing the audience is a good way to lose clients.

[SLK001]

Test it on other computers. What happens when a disk is put into a PC depends on what actions AUTORUN is set to do. Most computers should be set to "Do Nothing" when a disk is inserted (RE: the AUTORUN function is disabled). The user only needs to navigate to the appropriate directory and open the desired file.

[YTC]

Thank you for the reply; however, I am using a first play on the DVD. It plays an intro video then it goes to the main menu. I can, however, make it go to a menu first. That is no problem. But that really is not my problem. Actually, playing the DVD part of the disc will not allow the PDF and other ROM files to be accessible. That's why I have to have a Flash exe on the DVD, along with the DVD files. I want the EXE to be played if it is put in the computer, not the DVD file. However, if there is a way to have the PDFs open when a link is clicked from the DVD video file, on a computer, then I can do away with the EXE. I don't think that is possible (if so, then I don't know how to do it). So my main question is, how do I get the exe to play first, instead of the dvd video file? I have an autorun, but that does not work if there are DVD files on the disc, as well.

[aedipuss]

no one wants and they shouldn't for any reason play an unknown .exe on a dvd. if that was on a dvd that came my way it would be immediately thrown in the trash no matter who it came from. if there is something you want a client to see on a dvd, turn the pdfs into mpeg stills and allow them to play as part of the dvd.

[filmboss80]

I think you missed a key factor mentioned in the previous posts. YOUR computer may have autorun, and YOUR computer may have Adobe Reader or other PDF-viewing software loaded, but you cannot guarantee such things on the computers of others.

What is the obstacle to creating DVD-compliant image files containing the same text and graphic information as your PDF files? You could save yourself and others loads of problems if you could just keep everything simple and universally accessible.

[YTC]

Thank you. Making an mpeg still is definately not an option, especially with 2 100+ PDF files. So how do you propose making this enhanced DVD work? I keep hearing that this is something everyone would not do, or if they got something like this, then they would throw it away. Please can someone just tell me another option? I have seen enhanced DVDs out there with ROM contents and DVD files together. I used to make them when e-DVD was around. Now, e-dvd is not around and there seems to be no other solution, other than have the PDF files in a folder and tell them, if they click on it while playing it is on set top dvd player, to navigate to the extras folder while the disc is in their dvd-rom drive on their PC. I thought it would be nice to give them some sort of menu to navigate through the files with.

[filmboss80]

If you're bound and determined to head down this path, then you'll have to spend some more money...

http://download.cnet.com/eDVD/3000-7970_4-10408387.html

http://library.creativecow.net/articles/manz_james/edvd4_rev.php

You can try it, but I'm still convinced you'll just piss off the users.

[YTC]

I cannot believe you found it. Thanks! If you don't feel that this is a good way to do it, then do you have other suggestions, besides making the pages into graphics? I can't figure out any other way, besides have the individual files looosly in a folder and tell the user to look at them separately, if they want to view the PDFs.

[aedipuss]

send a dvd with a playable movie and a cd with the files and a copy of pdf reader. make nice printed labels with instructions as to what's on each disc. that's the way i would do it, and the only way i would consider putting them in my computer drive.

afaik there is no provision in the dvd spec to allow execution of programs from within a dvd. i haven't seen any dvd authoring software that allowed it either.

you could use try using an autorun file on the dvd to allow selection of either playing the movie or opening a pdf. it could be a simple batch file or a nice intro program if you hired a programmer. then the problem becomes what systems do you want it to play on, pc mac linux.....

[videopoo]

eDVD is no longer sold is not compatible with current OSs. Best not to do this unless you want to piss off end users.

[filmboss80]

Videopoo confirmed my own doubts. (I was certainly reluctant to provide those eDVD links.) Indeed, Sonic gave it up on the software 5 years ago.

Aedipuss' suggestion to create separate DVD and data CD is very good alternative to my suggestion of converting all PDFs to DVD-compliant image files.

Whatever the case, you should not force the end user to jump through technical hoops to accommodate your comfort zone. The priority should be to make your product user-friendly -- even if you have to work your own tail off.

[lordsmurf]

When a disc tries to self-operate on my computer, I yank it out of the drive and throw it in the trash.
I then look dimly on the idiot company that sent it to me.

Yes, I have autoplay turned off, but some software installs re-enable it without asking permission.
I don't always notice it's happened until I run across some crap like this.

[Cornucopia]

To summarize:

There are 2 ways to create what you want...
1. Create a Hybrid single disc
2. Create a standard DVD-Video disc, and a separate DVD-ROM or CD-ROM which may or may not autorun.

If you create #1, there are only 3 ways to do it:
1. Create according to the OLD Astarte/Spruce/Apple method (HTML-within-DVD) which used non-standard extensions to the DVD spec that allowed incorporating HTML in user data packets of the VOB files. It used a special player (supplied by the Authoring brand) that was the ONLY thing that understood the HTML links and could load PDFs, DOCs, www pages, etc.
2. Create according to the OLD SonicSolutions/Pinnacle/PCFriendly method (DVD-within-HTML) which used a special HTML+DVD authoring platform that created both the standard DVD-Video and a special webpage/browser that acted as a specialty player/wrapper, and as a browser, could link to similar payload as #1.
3. Create a separate executable (in the Interactive authoring platform of your choice - including Flash) that would run outside of and completely separate from the DVD-Video (but maybe could link to authored VOBs).

The problem with #1 and #2 is that they never really caught on (#2 a little more than #1) and so neither have been supported for at least 5 years.
The problem with all 3 is that the MAJORITY of PC users that include support for DVD-Video also have DVD-Video player software already installed from the manufacturer and those invariably include a tray app that loads on startup and waits for disc input, playing the DVD-Video at first chance.
This will CONFLICT with any additional attempt at autorunning ANOTHER application on the SAME disc. Sometimes, this will even result in a frozen computer!!
As has already be mentioned MANY TIMES, autorun is a risky and part-time and partly successfuly proposition at BEST.

Take some advice, create your Flash EXE. Put it on the same disc. DON'T make it autorun. DO give instructions (README.TXT) on how to play manually. Most people can read. Most of them will follow instructions if they're friendly, simple and straightforward. BUT DON'T try to get the disc to do something automatically which your CLIENTELE may not want.

Scott

[YTC]

To summarize:

There are 2 ways to create what you want...
1. Create a Hybrid single disc
2. Create a standard DVD-Video disc, and a separate DVD-ROM or CD-ROM which may or may not autorun.

If you create #1, there are only 3 ways to do it:
1. Create according to the OLD Astarte/Spruce/Apple method (HTML-within-DVD) which used non-standard extensions to the DVD spec that allowed incorporating HTML in user data packets of the VOB files. It used a special player (supplied by the Authoring brand) that was the ONLY thing that understood the HTML links and could load PDFs, DOCs, www pages, etc.
2. Create according to the OLD SonicSolutions/Pinnacle/PCFriendly method (DVD-within-HTML) which used a special HTML+DVD authoring platform that created both the standard DVD-Video and a special webpage/browser that acted as a specialty player/wrapper, and as a browser, could link to similar payload as #1.
3. Create a separate executable (in the Interactive authoring platform of your choice - including Flash) that would run outside of and completely separate from the DVD-Video (but maybe could link to authored VOBs).

The problem with #1 and #2 is that they never really caught on (#2 a little more than #1) and so neither have been supported for at least 5 years.
The problem with all 3 is that the MAJORITY of PC users that include support for DVD-Video also have DVD-Video player software already installed from the manufacturer and those invariably include a tray app that loads on startup and waits for disc input, playing the DVD-Video at first chance.
This will CONFLICT with any additional attempt at autorunning ANOTHER application on the SAME disc. Sometimes, this will even result in a frozen computer!!
As has already be mentioned MANY TIMES, autorun is a risky and part-time and partly successfuly proposition at BEST.

Take some advice, create your Flash EXE. Put it on the same disc. DON'T make it autorun. DO give instructions (README.TXT) on how to play manually. Most people can read. Most of them will follow instructions if they're friendly, simple and straightforward. BUT DON'T try to get the disc to do something automatically which your CLIENTELE may not want.

Scott

Thanks so much. You have answered my question. I do not plan to use eDVD because of its incompatability with later OSs. If not including an autorun is the answer, then I plan to leave it off. I wanted to give the users a navigation menu, so that is why I included the Flash to begin with. I just didn't know how the movie industry did it, but knew that it could be done. I do have a screen on the DVD that tells the user they are trying to access ROM material and to play it in their computer DVD-ROM drive. I also tell them where they can find the materials. I have always had that screen just incase it didn't autorun. I'll get rid of the autorun.

Thanks for everyone's help!!

[EddyH]

I'm sure I've seen this done (Animatrix?) where you can put it in the PC, it runs the DVD segment, and you can somehow link off the enhancement page to the actual file folder. Not sure how, mind...

Would it not be simplest to have the instructions on an MPG-Still that comes up when you navigate to that section on the disc? As in,

"This disc's enhanced content is not available on standalone DVD players. To access it, please insert the disc into a computer with a DVDROM drive, then:

Windows PC: Open My Computer, right-click on the DVD drive (titled <YOURDISCTITLE>), choose "Open" from the menu, and run FLASHPDFS.exe from the ENHANCED folder.

Mac: Whatever the gonzo instructions for a Mac are
Linux PC: Ditto....

The individual documents are accessible from ENHANCED\PDFS should you instead wish to open them in a suitable external application such as Adobe Reader™.

If you are already viewing this screen from your computer's DVD player application, please note these instructions then minimise or close the player before following them."

That should fit comfortably at a readable font size, I reckon. Certainly if all that FBI anti-copy blurb can...
I know trusting the viewer to actually read, understand, and follow all that is a big ask, but if they then come complaining that "it doesn't work!", you can at least ask "did you follow the on-screen instructions?" before having to kick into proper tech support mode.

Oh, and - "they might not have a PDF reader"? They don't really deserve to be in business, then. It's like not having any facility for opening Microsoft Word documents. Even if you don't use the particular company's application, there are free read-only viewers available (both from MS/Adobe and third parties), and they're common enough that you only have yourself to blame if you come across a potentially helpful DVD chock full of the things but have no way of opening them. I even managed to bodge a basic-but-functional one compatible with modern files onto an old Win95 laptop I had back when I was too poor to get anything else - it was worth the effort as a lot of what I worked with used them. All you can do is namedrop it, maybe provide a weblink to adobe.com, and if they don't want your business because of it view it as a blessing because you'd be saddled with a client who can't do a single thing for themselves (and probably won't want to pay for the extra support they demand).

[YTC]

Thanks, EddyH. My screen says something similar to this already. However, I do know that people do not read, so that is why I tried doing an autorun. I was also thinking about those people who don't know computers that well so they don't have to navigate to the file. But it does make sense not to include an autorun because alot of people have autorun turned off (I know my company does). So those people will have to navigate to the exe anyways. For now, I will keep the directions on a still, include a readme.txt, and get rid of the autorun. I will see how it goes....we are only making 2500 copies (hehe). I can always change it for the next 2500.

[Cornucopia]

Shouldn't be too hard to navigate to D:\ROM\"FLASH_APP.EXE" or whatever you want to call it.
The Flash/Shockwave application calls the various files itself, utilitizing on-disc viewers if needed (fallback capability can be programmed in)

BTW, the DVD-Video and DVD-Audio standards won't allow for non-standard files in their respective areas of influence, so make sure you do create an appropriate folder off the root, like the common "ROM" folder mentioned above.

Scott

[EddyH]

Ah, well, in that case, a waste of a spiel!
I wouldn't worry about it too much. As the adage goes, users are morons. If they can't figure out how to do something you've already provided ON SCREEN instructions for (not even hidden in a book), then it's their option to buck up their ideas. And you'll then run across those who freak out when autorun starts up, or they've done something to badly muller their system such that it doesnt work anyway, or, or, or...

I wonder how they would all have gotten on in ye olde days, before autorun was prevalent, and EVERY CDROM came with an instruction along the lines of "open D:\, and run \APPS\SETUP.EXE" or whatever. And THEN every time after you had to run a program icon to launch the player

[filmboss80]

As the adage goes, users are morons.

The so-called "moron" market is vast, and if your are producing a marketing DVD with maximum return potential in mind, the "morons" should be taken into account. In this case, those you call morons just might be your average not-so-tech-savvy users, and to sneer at them is simply bad business.

[EddyH]

As the adage goes, users are morons.

The so-called "moron" market is vast, and if your are producing a marketing DVD with maximum return potential in mind, the "morons" should be taken into account. In this case, those you call morons just might be your average not-so-tech-savvy users, and to sneer at them is simply bad business.

I know ... and much of my job is actually having to help them with a straight face.
However there's only so far you can go pandering to them before it crosses the line into facilitating active ignorance, or harming the more savvy consumers, and if the standards don't allow it anyway there's not much you can do. File it under "sorry, there is a minimum level of mental effort required here".

And it's difficult NOT to sneer at people so "unsavvy" that they can't follow instructions like "close this window, open My Computer, and find file X". It's not difficult to learn, page one of the "how to use your computer" remedial class. It's just that it requires you to actually snap out of your office-desk torpor and pay attention. The Windows NT login process, or dealing with email in Outlook 2007, is at least as difficult. If you can handle those, then what's wrong with something that would have been an everyday occurrence ~10 years ago anyway?

(I also have to deal with people who seem to have trouble with the concept of clearly-marked ON and OFF switches. When you bear in mind they've quite happily driven into work and used any number of other electronic devices in the same day, including probably a TV and Skybox on getting home, it starts to take the mickey a bit)

That's not to say you have to be actively rude to them - just put the case that, yes, this IS what you have to do to make it work, I'm sorry, it's not actually possible to do it another way (at least not since malware became a big problem), but if you follow the instructions you'll find it's actually quite simple. And let them be the rude ones back down the phone to you. And don't sweat it.

[Cornucopia]

I concur.