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  1. Member
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    I need to make a purchase of a capture card to capture a bunch of VHS from my Toshiba W808 S-Video VCR. I'm looking for some specific model recommendations.

    Card must be compatible with Windows 7 64bit. PCI, PCI-Express, or USB is acceptable.

    My main goal of the card is for it to get the content into my computer. I'm not so much concerned with whatever software it comes with for mastering the content itself. I've plenty of that at my disposal already. I need a good device for getting it into digital format.
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  2. Video Restorer lordsmurf's Avatar
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    Indeed, you should really go for the ATI 600 USB card: http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00138EOH8?ie=UTF8&tag=thdifa-20&linkCode=as2&camp=17...SIN=B00138EOH8

    Use Catalyst MC for MPEG-2 captures.
    VirtualDub for AVI lossless/uncompressed captures.

    There's been a bunch of discussion of this card lately at DVD Project Help > Capture, Record, Transfer
    Guides for Catalyst + VirtualDub, specifically tweaked for this card, are forthcoming.
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    So it looks like Diamond makes both USB and PCI-E versions of the 650 and a USB version of the 750. Doesn't seem to be a PCI-E 750 out there right now. Is this correct?. So do I go with 650 or 750? What's the difference between 650 and 750 chipset? I assume the 750 is better? Is there some reason I would want PCI-E over USB, making me go with the 650? It looks like the 650 PCI-E has hardware encoder, where as the USB 650 and 750 do not? Am I reading this stuff correctly?

    There are a few people who say they use the Diamond 750 USB on Win7 x64 with VirtualDub and uncompressed Lagarith, so that sounds positive.
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    Doesn't seem to be a PCI-E 750 out there right now. Is this correct?
    Yes, for US market.
    So do I go with 650 or 750? What's the difference between 650 and 750 chipset? I assume the 750 is better?
    Theater 650 have hardware mpeg2 encoder. Theater 750 lack hardware engine encoder.
    Is there some reason I would want PCI-E over USB, making me go with the 650?
    My personal taste is for PCIe or PCI over USB, but are evidence that USB versions can work fine.
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  5. Video Restorer lordsmurf's Avatar
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    I like portability of USB version, use it with laptops or microform HTPCs.
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    Thanks danno78. Just one more question I think. Is the only difference in the 650 and 750 the mpeg-2 encoder vs. no hardware encoder? Or is there anything else? I see the branding is different as well. 650's are TV Wonder HD, and 750 is Theater HD

    And one more, is there any difference in features in 600 and 650 ?
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    ..
    Originally Posted by danno78 View Post
    So do I go with 650 or 750? What's the difference between 650 and 750 chipset? I assume the 750 is better?
    Theater 650 have hardware mpeg2 encoder. Theater 750 lack hardware engine encoder.
    Originally Posted by HDClown View Post
    And one more, is there any difference in features in 600 and 650 ?
    Theater 600 lack 3Dcomb filter and hardware mpeg2 engine.
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  8. Video Restorer lordsmurf's Avatar
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    I'm betting the 600 is hardware-assist like old-style ATI AIW Radeon cards.
    Neither pure software nor pure hardware.
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  9. Fry's has the Diamond ATI TV 650 USB TV Tuner for $30:

    http://www.frys.com/product/6124759

    Does anyone know if this gets all the power it needs from the USB port? Or does it have a power brick too.
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    There appears to be a power brick if you look at the pictures of the item at Newegg. http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16815306007

    [Edit]I don't think the version Fry's is selling has all the accessories (remote, FM antenna, etc.). Newegg is selling the PCIE version with a free remote for $49.99, and there is a $20.00 manufacturer's rebate, plus free shipping.
    Last edited by usually_quiet; 9th Apr 2010 at 10:49.
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    Need external power source. The adapter is included. Usb can provide only 5V and limited power (maxim 0.9 A with USB 2.0)
    http://techgage.com/article/ati_tv_wonder_hd_600_pci_hd_650_combo_usb/
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  12. Thanks, danno78.
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    I'm undecided between 750 USB and a 650 PCIE. The fact that the 650 has an MPEG-2 hardware encoder makes me more inclined to go that route. The portability aspect of the USB device isn't really that big of a deal to me. if it ever became necessary, I wouldn't have a problem buying it as a second device for $50. I don't like the size of the 650 USB or the requirement for external power source either. I have an older Hauppauge Win-TV PVR USB2 that is like that, and it's always been a pain for me to deal with.

    I've seen numerous reports on videohelp.com of people using the 750 USB in Win7 x64 with great success. What's the status of a 650 PCIE in Win7 x64?
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  14. The hardware MPEG 2 encoder won't give as good results as a good software encoder. But it's convenient for quick caps that are going to DVD.
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    I was in the same position. I got the 750 USB. I am one of the people using it extensively in W7 x64, absolutely no issues.

    I am glad I chose it. I did not think portability would be a big deal for me either. As it turned out, a USB device can be rather handy and even turns a laptop into a capturing station.

    The fact that it also is a working HD tuner with antenna is a plus. When I'm not capturing, I toss it in the bag and take it with me on business trips - mobile TV + HDTV from my laptop, on the road.
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    Originally Posted by jagabo View Post
    The hardware MPEG 2 encoder won't give as good results as a good software encoder. But it's convenient for quick caps that are going to DVD.
    Part of me is wondering if I'll go through the entire ordeal to get the best quality capture using VDub and a software encoder, or just take advantage of the hardware MPEG-2 encoder. I ultimately need to get the VHS stuff out to DVD so it can be watched on other people's TV's. I have the ability to stream other formats at home, but much of this stuff is going to be made as copies for others.

    The source material is really old VHS stuff, recorded in LP mode for the most part. So I'm wondering if there'd really be any visible difference if I go through all the extra steps.
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  17. If you stick with less than an hour per single layer DVD you won't see much difference between software and hardware encoding.

    Your Toshiba W808 doesn't have a line TBC. You might also consider a DVD recorder with a line TBC. But then you'd probably want a proc amp too so you'd end up spending quite a bit more.
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  18. Originally Posted by lordsmurf View Post
    Indeed, you should really go for the ATI 600 USB card: http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00138EOH8?ie=UTF8&tag=thdifa-20&linkCode=as2&camp=17...SIN=B00138EOH8

    Use Catalyst MC for MPEG-2 captures.
    VirtualDub for AVI lossless/uncompressed captures.

    There's been a bunch of discussion of this card lately at DVD Project Help > Capture, Record, Transfer
    Guides for Catalyst + VirtualDub, specifically tweaked for this card, are forthcoming.
    does this card, 750 or 650 USB, have MPEG-2 hardware encoding? My laptop cpu is limited, I'm afraid realtime software encoding is far from enough, and I really want the capture process to be of less delay(3 sec between input and output, no encoding buffering)
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  19. Originally Posted by ndep View Post
    does this card, 750 or 650 USB, have MPEG-2 hardware encoding?
    danno78 pointed this out already. The 650 has a hardware MPEG 2 encoder. The 750 and 600 do not:

    https://forum.videohelp.com/threads/319205-Which-150-or-under-capture-card-for-VHS-S-VH...=1#post1976519

    Originally Posted by ndep View Post
    My laptop cpu is limited, I'm afraid realtime software encoding is far from enough, and I really want the capture process to be of less delay(3 sec between input and output, no encoding buffering)
    The software display of video being capture by hardware encoding devices is usually about a second behind the broadcast.
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    Originally Posted by jagabo View Post
    If you stick with less than an hour per single layer DVD you won't see much difference between software and hardware encoding.
    1 hour per DVD isn't much. That's going to be a lot of DVDs. 2 hours minimum was my desire. So maybe I won't bother with the hardware encoder. It's still nice to know it's available though. So I think I may get a 650 and if I need portability at a later date, add a 750. I suspect that once I do this initial project, I will never use the device again to be completely honest.

    Your Toshiba W808 doesn't have a line TBC. You might also consider a DVD recorder with a line TBC. But then you'd probably want a proc amp too so you'd end up spending quite a bit more.
    I'm aware that there is no TBC in the W808. I see a TBC mentioned on these forums frequently that goes for $200-215 but I'm undecided if it's worth it. I don't have a huge amount of stuff to go through. Maybe 50 hours tops.
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  21. Originally Posted by HDClown View Post
    1 hour per DVD isn't much. That's going to be a lot of DVDs. 2 hours minimum was my desire.
    2 hours of shaky, handheld, interlaced, camcorder video captured without a TBC is really pushing it. If you get a device with hardware MPEG2 encoding you can compare software and hardware encoding and decide for yourself.

    Originally Posted by HDClown View Post
    I see a TBC mentioned on these forums frequently that goes for $200-215 but I'm undecided if it's worth it. I don't have a huge amount of stuff to go through. Maybe 50 hours tops.
    Without a TBC every scanline of your video is wiggling randomly horizontally by a few pixels with every frame:

    https://forum.videohelp.com/threads/306272-Computer-video-capture-vs-vcr-to-dvd-combo?p...=1#post1882662

    This makes it much more difficult for an MPEG encoder because a large part of MPEG compression is not including parts of the picture that don't change from frame to frame.
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    Well, those Panasonic ES10's and ES15's look to go for pretty damn cheap on eBay. All I need to do is go video out VHS -> video in ES10/ES15 and ES10/ES15 video out -> capture device ? Don't need it for anything else? Are both the ES10 and ES15 identical for this purpose? If I can get one of those for $50 or less, that would be worth the cost.
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  23. Member
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    Originally Posted by HDClown View Post
    Are both the ES10 and ES15 identical for this purpose? If I can get one of those for $50 or less, that would be worth the cost.
    ES15 add a firewire input for MiniDV camcorders.
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  24. Yes, the ES10 and ES15 will both work as a line TBC in passthrough mode. I believe they also do a little noise reduction which may be a problem if your SVHS deck is doing it too.
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  25. Member vhelp's Avatar
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    FWIW adding to the topic..

    Yes, the USB versions of these capture devices do work fine, but you have to incorporate a lossless (compressor) codec: huffy or lagarith in between--at very least it is recommended to do so. I have tested this on a few usb devices: pinnacle pctv pro and roxio

    Trying to capture raw (uncompressed) is too taxing on most computers. I know it is on mine. So, (when I do use usb cap devices) I capture to an usb2 external hdd with a lossless codec. At this time, I prefer the huffy because it is the least cpu intensive, though lagarith gives a few more gigs to spare. But at the moment, I am using an PCI-e card and capturing to an external hdd via huffy codec from my satelite tv.

    I find that incorporating an 1TB usb2 external hdd is the way to go these days when video capturing. My suggestion would be to use a lossless codec in between and you'll be fine.

    For a long while I was using a dv codec and even made plenty of suggestions to use it, but now I have moved away from it because it has become aparent to me that it has (or shows) some flaws when source is heavily compressed and/or bitrate-starved. With the amount of degraded content being broadcasted today, it just makes things that much worse. I find that it helps to just go all the way straight to lossless codec in the long run, couple that with a 1TB hdd, etc.. DV is just good for camera footage, and thats it! Moving onward now.

    And, for vhs content, you definately want to incorporate a lossless codec in there--unless you want something quick and don't care about quality.

    -vhelp 5355
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