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  1. Member
    Join Date
    Sep 2007
    Location
    United Kingdom
    Search Comp PM
    Hi,
    ..for a friend.
    What should the following be for still images fed into Adobe Premiere Pro CS3 so as to create a PAL dvd video for playing via a standard 1 year old dvd player (not one marketed as bluray capable) to an LCD HDready TV without cropping occurring of the image ?
    The new Panasonic LCD HDready TV has native resolution 1533 x 768pixels. Currently a scart lead is in use, though the dvd player is labelled as hdmi and it is planned to reconnect instead via hdmi. Not sure by the way if such would affect the cropping issue, would it ?
    1) Pixel width and height of still (tiff) ?
    2) Pixel aspect ratio of still (tiff) ?
    3) Preset for input source or custom setting and what to choose ?
    4) Adobe Media Encoder output settings:-
    a) MPEG2 or MPEG2-DVD
    b) PAL option ..which one to pick with regards pixel width/height, fps, interlacing or progressive, quality effect on pixels and our desired goal ?
    c) or custom output and what ?

    Currently tried 1280 x 720 square pixel images created in photoshop (hence sq pixels) choosing input preset PAL 1280 x 720 25fps Square Pixel and going File>Export>Adobe Media Encoder and choosing MPEG2-DVD and PAL Progressive Widescreen High Quality which yields 720 x 576.
    As the dvd player is not capable of bluray output, choosing this seemed logical BUT trying out all screen aspect settings on the TV sees the following cropping of a test image with grid and circles which is unacceptable. (192 left /right means 192 on each side totalling 384)
    Auto 55 left /right ( that�s 8.6% lossage) and 25 top and 20 bott (6.25% lossage), Circles OK
    16:9 ditto
    Zoom 1 55 left /right (8.6%) and 105 top/bott (29% lossage) Circles stretched vert
    Zoom 2 192 left /right (30%) and 100 top/bott (27%) Circles ok
    Zoom 3 192 left/right (30%) and 168 top/bott (47%) ..a disaster !
    14:9 55 left/right with black margins each 96px , 75top and 65 bott (19%) Circles stretched vert.
    4:3 55 left/right with black margins each 192, 25top and 20 bott (6.25%) Circles stretched vert.

    None of these can be considered acceptable with the amount of cropping occurring and parts of image missing, so answers to the above numbered questions on settings are eagerly sought. Auto probably best here but goal is a need of 0 at all four sides and no distortion.
    I also wonder..perhaps he should add black margins in pshop to the image !
    Perhaps the answer also lies in altering the PAR in pshop ?

    He is desperate to resolve this now.
    DBenz

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  2. Always Watching guns1inger's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2004
    Location
    Miskatonic U
    Search Comp PM
    You are making a DVD, so you are limited to DVD resolutions. For PAL this is 720 x 576, or 1024 x 576 is measuring in square pixels.

    The rest of your issue comes down to the overscan of your TV over the connection you are using for the player. Your only option is to add black border around the edges to push the image in, however you also need to understand that

    1. All televisions overscan to some degree, although some off modes that have no overscan in some circumstances.
    2. Overscan is not a standardised thing. Every TV overscans differently. Whatever you do to fix it for your current TV may well not work for you next TV, or your friends TV etc.
    3. You are losing the same amount of image to every DVD that you watch
    Read my blog here.
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  3. Member
    Join Date
    Sep 2007
    Location
    United Kingdom
    Search Comp PM
    Cheers.
    I shall tell him to try for the black additions to still edges, backworking it mathematically if he or I can from the results we see, at least the test chart gives a good start to such.
    If anyone would like to do the maths and let us know, we are grateful.

    Is the pixel aspect ratio ok to be left on the pshop default of square oixel or should we tinker with that and any idea what would be best ?

    Does though this mean that we are never seeing the entire movie width on a purchased dvd or do they also add black. Auto 55 left /right ( 8.6% lossage) and 25 top and 20 bott (6.25% lossage) is quite a crop isnt it ! Can't imagine anyone using the other settings, unless dvd movies are not made to any standard size and they are there to hopefully find one that fits it all in.

    Beats me why we can't all have the same single setting for 16:9 and have moves made to a certain size so instant fit every time. Much simpler in crt 4:3 days.

    DBenz
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  4. Originally Posted by DBenz View Post
    Does though this mean that we are never seeing the entire movie width on a purchased dvd
    Yes. And broadcast too.

    Overscan is a property of television. It started because CRT based TVs can't keep the picture centered, the right size, and linear. All those things varied with heat and age. To keep people from complaining about crooked pictures and black borders at the edges of the frame TVs overscan the image. Manufactures shoot for about 5 percent on each edge. But since the picture can't be controlled precisely you may find that any particular TV may range from about 2 percent to 10 percent on any particular edge.

    The broadcasters know TVs overscan so they don't worry about junk at the edges of the frame, you won't see it. And since there may be junk at the edges of the frame TV manufactures keep making TVs that overscan -- even with HDTVs with fixed pixel LCD and Plasma displays which don't have the size, centering, and linearity problems of CRTs.

    Originally Posted by DBenz View Post
    Auto 55 left /right ( 8.6% lossage) and 25 top and 20 bott (6.25% lossage) is quite a crop isnt it ! Can't imagine anyone using the other settings, unless dvd movies are not made to any standard size and they are there to hopefully find one that fits it all in.
    Commerical DVDs fill the frame unless the AR of the movie doesn't match the displayed AR. In which case they will only fill one dimension, filling the other with pillarbox or letterbox bars. They don't worry about you missing the edges of the picture. All your life you've watched TV and never seen the edges of the picture. You just never noticed because you didn't have a computer image of the entire frame as a reference.
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