Rendering with Adobe Premiere Elements decreases visual quality

[AuditSup]

Hopefully you can tell me what I am doing wrong or what I need to do to preserve quality. I am using a Canon HV30 and shot in HD. The video shot is beautiful, but when I capture and render video with Premiere Elements the quality of the video is far below what was on the oringial tape. I have viewed the raw footage from the camera and then a DVD created by Premeiere Elements. I understand that there is a down conversion, but it shouldn't look like good quality VHS, but a 480i DVD, right?
Thanks in advance for your assistance!

[aedipuss]

did you shoot in 30i 24p or 30p? how long is the video? what was the bitrate of the mpeg-2 you produced? did you set it for widescreen or 4:3?

screenshots of mediainfo in text mode of the source and output video files might help.

and yes done correctly the dvd should be of very high quality.

[AuditSup]

did you shoot in 30i 24p or 30p? how long is the video? what was the bitrate of the mpeg-2 you produced? did you set it for widescreen or 4:3?

screenshots of mediainfo in text mode of the source and output video files might help.

and yes done correctly the dvd should be of very high quality.

Widescreen for both taping and rendering, 30p and approximately 30 minutes. Bitrate was set to the highest setting and I did play with that without any improvement.

[aedipuss]

did you tell elements it's 30P and not 30i? no program can identify 30p from a hv20/30/40 correctly. they all see it as 30i. in premiere pro you have to right click on the assets in pp and "interpret footage as" 30p.

[AuditSup]

did you tell elements it's 30P and not 30i? no program can identify 30p from a hv20/30/40 correctly. they all see it as 30i. in premiere pro you have to right click on the assets in pp and "interpret footage as" 30p.

Per the program you requested I run, I found out that I am wrong it is 30i and not 30p.
Here's the info from the program you recommended I run:

General
ID/String : FF
CompleteName Christmas_Concert_2009.mpeg
Format : MPEG-TS
FileSize/String : 7.49 GiB
Duration/String : 39mn 41s
Duration_Start : UTC 2009-12-21 14:57:35
OverallBitRate/String : 27.0 Mbps
OverallBitRate_Maximum/String : 33.0 Mbps
Encoded_Date : UTC 2009-12-21 14:57:35
Video
ID/String : 2064 (0x810)
MenuID/String : 100 (0x64)
Format : MPEG Video
Format_Version : Version 2
Format_Profile : Main@High 1440
Format_Settings_BVOP/String : Yes
Format_Settings_Matrix/String : Default
Format_Settings_GOP : M=3, N=15
Duration/String : 39mn 41s
BitRate_Mode/String : Constant
BitRate/String : 24.7 Mbps
BitRate_Nominal/String : 25.0 Mbps
Width/String : 1 440 pixels
Height/String : 1 080 pixels
DisplayAspectRatio/String : 16:9
FrameRate/String : 29.970 fps
Standard : Component
Resolution/String : 8 bits
Colorimetry : 4:2:0
ScanType/String : Interlaced
ScanOrder/String : Top Field First
Bits-(Pixel*Frame) : 0.531
StreamSize/String : 6.86 GiB (92%)
Audio
ID/String : 2068 (0x814)
MenuID/String : 100 (0x64)
Format : MPEG Audio
Format_Version : Version 1
Format_Profile : Layer 2
Duration/String : 39mn 41s
BitRate_Mode/String : Constant
BitRate/String : 384 Kbps
Channel(s)/String : 2 channels
SamplingRate/String : 48.0 KHz
Video_Delay/String : -96ms
StreamSize/String : 109 MiB (1%)

[poisondeathray]

Just to explain what what aedipus said above: mediainfo doesn't necessarily indicate anything correct about the stream, because the stream (if 30p) is wrapped in a 60i container.

Mediainfo just reads the header and reports everything that is in a 60i container as "interlaced", even though the content may be 30p progressive

[AuditSup]

That doesn't indicate anything, because the stream (if 30p) is wrapped in a 60i container.

Mediainfo just reads the header and reports everything that is in a 60i container as "interlaced", even though the content may be 30p progressive

OK. I beleive when I filmed it was set to 30p. Nevertheless, is there anything in the information from the MediaInfo program that woudl tell why I am getting bad video once it is rendered to a DVD? I'm at a loss as to what needs to be done to get the quality that is in the tape to the DVD.

[poisondeathray]

Can you be more descriptive? What do you mean by "bad"? It can mean a number of things. eg. Is there pixellation, macroblocking, colors are off, blurry image etc....


Also need more information on the settings used to encode. Maybe post the mediainfo report for the DVD output that you made. If you can't describe more accurately what's wrong with the export then maybe posting a sample of source, and output would help


You can't get the quality of the original tape, simply because DVD is standard definition (You have 4.5x fewer pixels than your HDV original) and your DVD has a upper video bitrate limit of only ~9Mb/s.

[AuditSup]

Can you be more descriptive? What do you mean by "bad"? It can mean a number of things. eg. Is there pixellation, macroblocking, colors are off, blurry image etc....


Also need more information on the settings used to encode. Maybe post the mediainfo report for the DVD output that you made. If you can't describe more accurately what's wrong with the export then maybe posting a sample of source, and output would help


You can't get the quality of the original tape, simply because DVD is standard definition (You have 4.5x fewer pixels than your HDV original) and your DVD has a upper video bitrate limit of only ~9Mb/s.

By bad I mean blocky and what I would explain as grainy.
Yes, I know there's going to be a downgrade in quality, but I would expect it to match the quality of a commercial DVD movie? Is that reasonable?

I used the standard settings that Premiere Elements provides with the bitrate set for the highest quality (8.5b/s if I remember correctly).

[poisondeathray]

By bad I mean blocky and what I would explain as grainy.
Yes, I know there's going to be a downgrade in quality, but I would expect it to match the quality of a commercial DVD movie? Is that reasonable?

I used the standard settings that Premiere Elements provides with the bitrate set for the highest quality (8.5b/s if I remember correctly).

But what kind of content do you have? Was it handheld & shaky, or stabilized with a rig and tripod?

Was it lowlight? Was it grainy to begin with? grain acts as noise and is very hard on the encoder. If your source had noise to begin with , you might consider preprocessing with a denoiser

Those blockyness is a sign of overcompression for MPEG2, relatively too low bitrate (ie. the content is too complex for to the encoder to handle e.g. too much motion, whip pans, shaky footage)

If you set 8.5Mb/s, but did you actually achieve 8.5Mb/s? What does mediainfo say about that output file?

[aedipuss]

try shooting some video in 30i and make a dvd. is it better? then the problem is elements and the 30p footage. can elements interpret footage as if you right click on the source file?

i use an hv30 and shoot 30p all the time. the dvds i produce with vegas pro or premiere pro from it are great. it can be done.

the other question i have is how did you capture the footage from the cam?

[AuditSup]

try shooting some video in 30i and make a dvd. is it better? then the problem is elements and the 30p footage. can elements interpret footage as if you right click on the source file?

i use an hv30 and shoot 30p all the time. the dvds i produce with vegas pro or premiere pro from it are great. it can be done.

the other question i have is how did you capture the footage from the cam?

Will have to give it a try at 30i. I haven't had any problems importing, so I believe Elements can handle it.
So at least I know that it is possible. Maybe what I need to do is change programs. Between Vegas and Pro would you recommend one over the other for a casual user who is willing to spend the money?

I captured using the tool available in Elements via firewire.

[AuditSup]

By bad I mean blocky and what I would explain as grainy.
Yes, I know there's going to be a downgrade in quality, but I would expect it to match the quality of a commercial DVD movie? Is that reasonable?

I used the standard settings that Premiere Elements provides with the bitrate set for the highest quality (8.5b/s if I remember correctly).

But what kind of content do you have? Was it handheld & shaky, or stabilized with a rig and tripod?

Was it lowlight? Was it grainy to begin with? grain acts as noise and is very hard on the encoder. If your source had noise to begin with , you might consider preprocessing with a denoiser

Those blockyness is a sign of overcompression for MPEG2, relatively too low bitrate (ie. the content is too complex for to the encoder to handle e.g. too much motion, whip pans, shaky footage)

If you set 8.5Mb/s, but did you actually achieve 8.5Mb/s? What does mediainfo say about that output file?

Various elementary classes singing at the Christmas concert in the school hall. A sturdy tripod was used. Lighting was adequate as the raw tape footage attests and the raw footage is nice and sharp. Given we are talking about minimal movement of the subjects as I was filming the entire stage and on a tripod, I don't that that is it.

How do you run MediaInfo on a DVD? I don't know which file to select.

[poisondeathray]

How do you run MediaInfo on a DVD? I don't know which file to select.

open one of the vob files. You could also check with gspot or bitrate viewer

[aedipuss]

elements doesn't have a clue that it's 30p unless you adjust the file properties. just because it imports ok doesn't mean it understands what it imported. i'd recommend using hdvsplit to capture the tapes off the cam. once they are on the hard drive use the editor to import them. then you need to adjust the file properties setting to 30p.

[AuditSup]

How do you run MediaInfo on a DVD? I don't know which file to select.

open one of the vob files. You could also check with gspot or bitrate viewer

OK, here is the information from running MediaInfo on the first VOB file:

General
Complete name : D:\VIDEO_TS\VTS_01_1.VOB
Format : MPEG-PS
File size : 1 024 MiB
Duration : 17mn 35s
Overall bit rate : 8 140 Kbps
Video
ID : 224 (0xE0)
Format : MPEG Video
Format version : Version 2
Format profile : Main@Main
Format settings, BVOP : Yes
Format settings, Matrix : Default
Format_Settings_GOP : M=3, N=15
Duration : 17mn 35s
Bit rate mode : Variable
Bit rate : 7 625 Kbps
Nominal bit rate : 8 813 Kbps
Width : 720 pixels
Height : 480 pixels
Display aspect ratio : 16:9
Frame rate : 29.970 fps
Standard : NTSC
Resolution : 8 bits
Colorimetry : 4:2:0
Scan type : Interlaced
Scan order : Bottom Field First
Bits/(Pixel*Frame) : 0.736
Stream size : 959 MiB (94%)
Audio
ID : 128 (0x80)
Format : AC-3
Format/Info : Audio Coding 3
Duration : 17mn 34s
Bit rate mode : Constant
Bit rate : 192 Kbps
Channel(s) : 2 channels
Channel positions : Front: L R
Sampling rate : 48.0 KHz
Video delay : -67ms
Stream size : 24.1 MiB (2%)

[aedipuss]

at a vbr of 7-8mbps the video should look just like the source from the hv30. nothing looks wrong with the vob info.

[AuditSup]

at a vbr of 7-8mbps the video should look just like the source from the hv30. nothing looks wrong with the vob info.

So the degragation in quality is probably due to an error in the capture settings, i.e., taped at 30p, but imported at 30i?