Capturing video from a European VHS tape through RCA out

[danno78]

Yes, Pal 4.33.
Now in Europe all (99.99%) DVD and TV are able to see both, PAL and NTSC. Region coding is another issue. In US I don`t know.

[edDV]

The Sharp chart I posted above implies that PAL tapes play only one way with 4.43 MHz subcarrier and the settings on the NTSC line only affect NTSC tapes.

Maybe the "AUTO" setting allows the second line to affect PAL tapes. In that case when playing PAL tapes make sure the first line is set to "PAL" and the second line is set to "4.43".

Done. Don't mess with the VCR modes. This VCR does no conversion from PAL tapes. Capture the PAL, make a PAL DVD, then you can experiment with software NTSC conversion. A simple export to NTSC DVD in Vegas will have low quality.

[c627627]

You've just confused me with the last question I was asking of you: Low quality even if the export is from uncompressed avi PAL capture to NTSC DVD?

So you don't agree with danno78, when it comes to making NTSC DVDs, you're saying it's better to use a real converting VCR and directly capture to NTSC DVD file?

[edDV]

Most DVD players found in the USA will NOT play a PAL DVD to NTSC. You need to search for specific models. I already told you about the Philips 5990/92. Most Oppo models will play PAL to NTSC. Do your research.

Other (mostly Chinese) DVD players can play PAL to PAL. In that case a PAL TV is required*.

The rest of the models found in the USA (particularly the Japanese name brands) will not play a PAL DVD at all.


* Some "NTSC" model HDTV sets will display a "PAL" DVD when the DVD player is set to PAL and is connected to the TV with analog component cables. You need to test this.

[c627627]

If most US DVD players will not play PAL DVDs, why is lordsmurf saying he only has two DVD players of all he tested that won't? I tried it on one and it couldn't so it goes some way to confirm your argument but I really think we should set things straight for other people who are reading this to learn. What you're saying does make sense, I just don't know why lordsmurf said the opposite. Maybe he was testing them on HDTV like mine?


You said rendering in Sony Vegas would reduce quality but you still did not confirm your opinion on my main question:

• Capture uncompressed 576x480/25 avi, open in Sony Vegas, Render As NTSC DVD
is better than
• Capture from a "real" converting VCR into a NTSC DVD file,
is this true or false in your opinion?

[edDV]

You've just confused me with the last question I was asking of you: Low quality even if the export is from uncompressed avi PAL capture to NTSC DVD?

So you don't agree with danno78, when it comes to making NTSC DVDs, you're saying it's better to use a real converting VCR and directly capture to NTSC DVD file?

NO. Now pay attention. We are talking about your hardware.

#1 Make a PAL DVD. Use this with your PAL capable Panasonic plasma TV.

Separate subject.

#2 Use the captured uncompressed (or HuffYUV) PAL file to make an NTSC DVD for use with other DVD players / TV sets that don't play the PAL DVD. The methods of conversion are numerous. You will find dozens of methods if you search the forums here. ALL will be lower quality than watching the PAL DVD.

The easiest method, but the lowest quality is export to NTSC DVD from your PAL capture in Vegas. It won't be pretty but it should be in color. PAL to NTSC conversion will be blurry and laggy.

If you want a higher quality NTSC conversion use one of the software methods described in the forums or one of these ...

- Take the PAL tapes or PAL DVD to a dup business that advertises PAL to NTSC conversion. Quality will vary by the equipment they use. They probably won't accept copyrighted material.

- Buy a $40-60 Philips 5990/92 DVD player. Play the PAL DVD and capture the NTSC output. Result will be a bit better than using Vegas.

- Or you can buy a multi standard converting VCR but these are rare, expensive, troublesome and probably won't do a much better job than playing your PAL DVD in the Philips 5990 player. Most of these use 90's technology.

If you really need a high quality NTSC conversion, best to take the tapes to an expert transfer business. The machines they use cost well over $10K.

[c627627]

Woe, this is totally new information. My own DVD player can play a PAL DVD I made and output it through RCA or S-Video to ATi MMC set to NTSC!! [It is a Zenith DVB612 DVD player.]


This was never mentioned as an option. So now, we've established that PAL DVD is the best option, but for NTSC DVD:

1. Capture from PAL VHS VCR to uncompressed PAL avi.
2. Convert uncompressed PAL avi to PAL DVD
3. Play this PAL DVD on a DVD player and capture through S-VIDEO to NTSC DVD.

is better than

1. Capture from PAL VHS VCR to uncompressed PAL avi.
2. Convert uncompressed PAL avi to NTSC DVD


I may not understand how uncompressed avi file converted to NTSC DVD is worse than compressed PAL DVD captured to compressed NTSC DVD, but as you can see we were not done because my DVD player can output PAL DVD to capture card set to NTSC and this had not been brought up as the best option to make NTSC DVD from PAL VHS until now.

[c627627]

I would like to test this and post screen shots of both options to directly confirm this. I will wait to get clearer, cleaner European VHS tape footage then take screen shots of exactly the same frames captured using both methods.

What is the name of that program that lets you load video files and then it numbers frames so that you can take screen shots of exactly the same frame for direct comparison of quality?

[edDV]

You need to try both and compare the result. Each DVD player model will vary in quality. The Zenith may not do as well as an Oppo or Philips.

We are talking about how Vegas would do the conversion. It will do a simple frame rate and frame size interpolaltion causing a blurry and motion artifacted conversion to NTSC frame rate and frame size. Other software methods get better results but are complicated.

[edDV]

I would like to test this and post screen shots of both options to directly confirm this. I will wait to get clearer, cleaner European VHS tape footage then take screen shots of exactly the same frames captured using both methods.

What is the name of that program that lets you load video files and then it numbers frames so that you can take screen shots of exactly the same frame for direct comparison of quality?

The differences won't be fully apparent from stills because most of the artifacts of conversion occur during motion.

I'm still not understanding why you are so interested in the NTSC conversion quality when you can view the PAL directly in full quality?

[c627627]

To answer your question, Pal DVD would be for me and NTSC would be for (not my) NTSC only player/TV. I would also like to know which method is best because we've established that both methods are available to me.


I'll try to get several exact same frames side by side, but if that's no good, well what do you suggest?

[edDV]

To answer your question, Pal DVD would be for me and NTSC would be for (not my) NTSC only player/TV. I would also like to know which method is best because we've established that both methods are available to me.


I'll try to get several exact same frames side by side, but if that's no good, well what do you suggest?

You need to view clips that show motion and at various contrast levels. Watch for blur, noise and edge artifacts. Also jerky or unnatural motion.