Need Help Encoding Quality Web Vid

[MAtkins]

I took one vid of me playing. So video 1 & video 2 are both the same original vid.
The idea was to break it up into to parts so I could show just the right & left hands.
So, it looks like deinterlace should come first.

The original file is 6 channels.
I hope to end up with stereo.

[poisondeathray]

You must have a 6ch=>2ch downmix somewhere if info says 2ch, like ffdshow's mixer, but if that's what you want then it's ok. Just something to be aware of when you make 6-ch videos for another purpose (ie. it's passing 2ch when it should be 6ch, so you have a filter somewhere downmixing it)

I don't know how your shot is framed (how much stuff other than hands and guitar)

But you could for sure resize it smaller after deinterlacing, since your web video is going to be so small. This would save you time and editing would be smoother in PP. YOu can do final crop & resize & positioning in PP

[MAtkins]

I've only got one camera. I shot the guitar in one vid. Now I need 'overlay' one copy on top of the other and crop one to show the right hand, the other to show the left hand. It's really only one original vid.
So, it looks like I need to deinterlace before doing anything else.

I looked at overlay. It looks like it'd be easier to do the cropping & overlay in Premiere if I can keep it from degrading the quality because I can see what I'm doing.

I can just run it back through avisynth & vdub to crop & downsize the final after I've got the result vid created.

The original audio is 6 channels. I was hoping to end up with stereo.

OK, I'm going to run the latest version of the script:

LoadPlugin("c:\Program Files (x86)\Avisynth 2.5\plugins\yadifmod.dll")
LoadPlugin("c:\Program Files (x86)\Avisynth 2.5\plugins\nnedi2.dll")
DirectShowSource("c:\Vids\20100303_070409.m2ts",fp s=29.97, audio=true)
AssumeFPS(30000,1001)
YadifMod(order=1,mode=0, edeint=NNEDI2(field=1))
#info()

I should save as an AVI right?

[poisondeathray]

I've only got one camera. I shot the guitar in one vid. Now I need 'overlay' one copy on top of the other and crop one to show the right hand, the other to show the left hand. It's really only one original vid.
So, it looks like I need to deinterlace before doing anything else.

Definitely, because of the restrictions on interlaced resizing and cropping, and you don't want to be subject to Adobe's deinterlacer. But you can still do a resize after the deinterlace in the script (1 step). Just add a resize line to the end. This will make your editing much faster, and you encoding faster, and less HDD space as well.

I looked at overlay. It looks like it'd be easier to do the cropping & overlay in Premiere if I can keep it from degrading the quality because I can see what I'm doing.

Way easier. I hate code. As I said earlier, this is where paid NLE's shine - ease of use

I can just run it back through avisynth & vdub to crop & downsize the final after I've got the result vid created.

Yes you could, when it exports from PP, it will be RGB, so in your script it will need ConvertToYV12()

Colorspace conversions are lossy, so that's another reason to do it in avisynth if you were very picky, and your editing was easy to do. YOu could stay in the same YV12 colorspace in avisynth (don't worry about this, the loss over 1 generation is minimal, and you can only see it when you "pixel peep" like I do)

The original audio is 6 channels. I was hoping to end up with stereo.

Yes I know, but you should be aware that you're getting something unexpected. You didn't downmix in the script. So you some other filter in your directshow chain has "taken over." I hate unexpected surprises. e.g. what if it's doing something else like normalizing the audio etc... I'm a control freak and pay attention to detail. I have to know exactly what's going on. When you want to do another project that requires 6-ch audio, you will have to sort it out. I bet it's ffdshow's mixer

[MAtkins]

I hear ya about the 'control'. After looking at fffdshow I think you're right. I'll watch for that.

My post prod script should look like this?
AVISource("c:\Vids\PostProdVid.avi")
Crop(165, 118, -165, -120)
LanczosResize(1040,585)

[poisondeathray]

My post prod script should look like this?
AVISource("c:\Vids\PostProdVid.avi")
Crop(165, 118, -165, -120)
LanczosResize(1040,585)

Sorry I can't answer that without looking at it, and I have no idea what it's showing or supposed to do

Just try it out and find out the hard way

[MAtkins]

ya know you'd be a good programmer.
It's just like this

[poisondeathray]

Well it depends on what you exported (the settings) from AME, what dimensions, and how you set up the project

From what i've seen it would be way faster to downscale the import assets, then do the final crop and scaling in pp when you do the overlay, since your final video is so small.

[MAtkins]

I didn't expect you to know the numbers. I'm hoping the commands are right.

I agree. I'm trying to figure out the math to downscale now.
I'll end up with a cropped version of the original.
Original = 1920x1080; cropped (not resized) = 1040x640. Final downsized = 368x272.
So I've gotta figure out how far I can downsize the 1920x1080 so that the 1040x640 'square inside that' won't end up smaller than 368x272.

I know that's confusing. I'm trying to get my arms around the math now.

[poisondeathray]

Even if you scale it to 368x272, it can't exceed that right? and you're still way ahead than encoding to 1920x1080.

I'm suggesting you make your sequence size in premiere 368x272, like your final export

Your photoshop image should be resized to 368x272, so it fills the entire space of the backdrop, then you overlay the 2 video in as "boxes" in PP, doing the final resizing and cropping touches in PP

Or are your hands supposed to be "zoomed in", ie. not 1:1 from a 368x272 image size? Because I haven't seen the entire frame from the native video, I don't know how you framed your shot or how much hand vs. other backgound you have.

Does this make sense? or am I confused on what you are doing?

[MAtkins]

if I crop the original vid to 1040x640 the hands (not resized) are right. I just have to crop & move each hand to fit w/in the 1040x640.
So, the effect is 'zoomed in'.
368 is about 36% of 1040 so it looks like I should be able to downsize to about 40% or so without losing anything.
Do I have to watch out for the 16 multiple rule at this stage?
I notice that 1920x1080 doesn't subscribe to the rule.
1040x640 & 368x272 do.

So if I downsize to 40% the dimensions would be: 768x432.
I think this should work??

And this would be in the PreProd script but AFTER the deinterlace line right?

[poisondeathray]

1920x1080 is actually encoded to 1920x1088 internally but displayed as 1080 . I would stick to multiples of 16 if you could, but it's not a deal breaker. Definitely stay to 4 or 8.

If you are guessing #'s , better to guess high (better to downscale a few pixels in premiere than to not have enough), e.g. 848x480 if you are too close with 768x432

You can test it out on a few frames, and it would only take a minute

Trim(0,10) would return frames 0->10 (or use a different section)

[MAtkins]

Well, I downsized to 848x480 in the preprod script.
I tested it in WMP and it played fine.
I took it into a PP project with the settings below and did *nothing* to it.
I exported it and it reduced the fps and the size of the file.
WMP cannot play the resultant avi file.

Any ideas?

[poisondeathray]

sequence preset should be same as your web video and photoshop psd size 368x272 , fields should be none (progressive) because you deinterlaced the import

export should be the same as well 368x272 unless you are doing some other resizing later, and 29,97 fps, since your input was 29.97 wasn't it (didn't you start with 60i video?, what did info() say about the fps) , so why did you set it at 25?

you could leave everything at 848x480, and export then encode & resize later with avisynth if it looks fine (you just have to change the frame rates)

v210 is 10bit uncompressed 4:2:2, and most video players won't be able to play that. Don't checkmark render at maximum depth, that's only for 10-bit video like v210, cineform, prores

format should be "microsoft avi" , not "uncompressed microsoft avi", and codec should be "none", which will give you uncompressed 8-bit RGB.

[MAtkins]

That fixed it. The size is 848x480. I want to do all the cropping & moving in PP then do the final crop & downsize using avisycnc as you suggested.

For now I just wanted to see if I could import & export a usable avi of the result from the preprod script from PP.
This time WMP can play it.

I looks a *lot* worse than it does before I bring it into PP:

Look at before the PP export, after the PreProd script & After the PP Export:

[poisondeathray]

because your sequence was set to interlaced (upper field first). set it to progressive and keep it progressive on export

also right click the clip in the clip bin and interpret footage. what does it say?

[MAtkins]

Even in the vid before the PP export it doesn't look that great.
The deinterlace doesn't seem to have helped any more than handbrake.
See, the strings are still a bit jagged; about like I had when I first used handbrake.

My competitor is still *much* more clear.

[poisondeathray]

You're doing something wrong then, or setup premiere incorrectly. Did you make the changes I suggested? how was the file interpreted?


I've encoded a guitar video too , if you remember the earlier screenshots

(or maybe I'm your competitor muuahhahahahha) just kidding....

But that earlier guitar sample screenshot was from another member here who got advice from here, and he might be your competitor

Are you saying your deinterlaced video doesn't look good? (before importing into premiere)? If so, upload a native sample from your camera either here if <30MB , or to mediafire.com . You can cut a small piece with tsmuxer

[MAtkins]

OK, I see that. I set up the project again using progressive.
It looks much better.

What do you think of the first one above?
That's the one that's after the preprod script, before PP.

Here's the result after the PP export (using a progressive project).

[poisondeathray]

What do you think of the first one above?
That's the one that's after the preprod script, before PP.

Not sure which one you're talking about? the screenshot? It's tough to tell deinterlacing quality with 1 shot, it's only in motion that the jaggies come out to play. There are better deinterlacers (in terms of shimmer), but they are slower. The one I suggested was medium

But that screenshot doesn't have the video 1 + video 2 + photoshop. It's just the plain video. Was that just a test?

[MAtkins]

I must not know how to use Tsmuxer.
It looks like this:

[MAtkins]

Arg - that didn't work:

[poisondeathray]

^What was that for? Are you still unhappy with it ?

If you want to step up, you can use TempGaussMC_Beta1mod() , but it's about 5-10x slower than yadifmod+nnedi2

You can tell small artifacts are smoothed over (e.g. look at the wooden edges of the guitar)

But wouldn't you agree all of these solutions are much better than Adobe's POS deinterlacer?

yadifmod+nnedi2


tempgaussmc_beta1mod

[MAtkins]

I thought had asked for it just so you could see it.
I wouldn't mind getting *your* obviously professional opinion on it.
I messed up a bit though, it's a ts, not an m2ts.
I can see it so I wasn't sure if that mattered.

[MAtkins]

I'll try it again w/ the m2ts which this forum says they support.

[poisondeathray]

There is no "perfect" deinterlacer. Shooting progressive (pN) is the best solution. I uploaded a sample above ^ illustrating a different one, tempgaussmc_Beta1, which is as close as you can get in terms of deinterlacing. Look at the wooden edges of the guitar. It's more noticeable at the full frame (1920x1080), but I didn't upload it. It applies a slight denoise to get rid of interline twitter, and countersharpen to help with lost detail, but it's waaay slower. You have to ask yourself if a tiny web video is worth the hassle (even with my slight OCD , I wouldn't subject myself to that...)

I asked for the sample, because it seemed like you couldnt get premiere to behave, but you probably posted it before you fully read my earlier reply and fixed the sequence settings.

BTW, .ts or .m2ts are fine, tsmuxer doesn't re-encode, and they are both containers or transport streams

[MAtkins]

Hope I don't make the forum mad w/ these files

Here it is after the preprod deinterlacing script and after the PP export.
What do you think. Does this look like professional grade?

[poisondeathray]

Hope I don't make the forum mad w/ these files

Here it is after the preprod deinterlacing script and after the PP export.
What do you think. Does this look like professional grade?

I don't see any files

"professional grade" is all relative. It will depend on things like who your audience is comprised of, and what their expectations are, and if there are deliverables or stipulations in your contract, etc...

And we've all seen examples of pretty shabby "professional" videos...

[MAtkins]

I lost my Internet last nite. Sorry about that.
I ended up going to Walt Disney World and watched the movie 'Avatar'.
Talk about 'video'. Man, the graphics are unreal.
They skin 3D models (really *good* models) with photography.

I can't upload the file. I've tried like 15 times and I get disconnected every time.
RoadRunner=RinkyDink

[MAtkins]

OK, I've got something.
This looks OK to me.
What do you think?