HERE's HOW TO FIT 120mins movie on one cd in SVCD FORMAT!!!!

[y2flyy]

ok folks before you guys rip my head off
i tried something today and it was interesting
ok i wanted to experiment with svcds keep in mind that im using kingviper's svcd template
i had the movie enemy of the state 130 mins in asf format and also avi
when i encode 130mins in avi format i need 3cds to watch the movie in my dvd player. quality is great though almost dvd quality
now here's the thing when i encode the movie using the asf versions of the movie i was able to fit it on one cd with room to spare.
now i thinking to myself that this is impossible
added onto that it would not play on my computer
so i almost did not burn it
but when i burnt it and tried it in my dvd player
it WORKED!!!!
and get this with the very same quality as the one i burned earlier with the avi files
but this one was on ONE cd
i guess if you convert your avi files into asf you can fit it on one cd
in SVCD!!!!
Now did I get lucky or am I on to something??
Y2Flyy

[mschark]

Could you post the steps you took to complete this process??

[y2flyy]

first i encoded the asf files into SVCD mpeg2 with the newer version of tmpenc
then i burned the mpeg with nero using svcd compliant
i also just tried it with american pie 90 mins and its great quality
the overall file on cd was approx. 524 mb
this has got to be impossible
i used to couldnot fit 90mins on one cd in VCD format
it still does not play in my computer
but it plays in perfect quality in my dvd player
someone please try this and tell me my mind is not playing tricks on me
Y2Flyy

[y2flyy]

bump

[iant]

I think the main thing people would like to see here are things like the bitrate settings used. That way they can try it for themselves and can judge for themselves.

Without the extra technical information on all steps of the conversion process, all we have is your word. ( No offense meant here. Just pointing out a fact. )

If it can be done, it would certainly be useful.

[Fred©]

The most important part you forgot to tell...

How did you created the AVI file? What codec used? What was the resolution of the AVI? NTSC, PAL, NTSCFilm?

I am curios to try...

Fred©

[Fred©]

Sorry.... I meant" how do you created the ASF file", not AVI files....


What software have you used? (this question I forgot to ask before )

Fred©


[/quote]

[y2flyy]

sorry fred and others for not applying enough information
again i used kingviper's svcd template
the res is at 480x480 mpeg2
bitrate at 2000kbs constant
its was ntsc
and for enemy of the state i had already d/l it in asf format
but for american pie i encoded avi to asf using
windows media encoder
im sure experts can play around with some of these settings to make it better
but it still was a great looking svcd with room on ONE cd
im doing john q scr in this process right now
any questions or comments reply please
Y2Flyy

[homerpez]

I think what he's saying is that when he encoded from a differenct source to SVCD format, it fit more on a CD.

B.S.!

The only things that matter is the output format. Output bitrate is all that matters as far as fitting to one disc, two, three...

I myself have done movies, at SVCD resolution (480x480), 128k audio, and had them come out fairly well. Some were as long as 112 minutes long, and still look fine. Of course, using multipass encoding in CCE helps a lot... and it depends on the movie.

But this person just sounds confused (no offense).

[y2flyy]

where am i confused at homer????
ive done svcds before from avi source files and have never been able to put one movie of this length onto ONE cd PERIOD!!
same bitrate same quality in dvd player when i converted to asf and encoded it
i did not say i had anything revolutionary but it works so far
i was posting to see if anyone else have done this or whatever
so wheres the BS!!
again enemy of the state was 120mins
in avi format it took 1hr and 40mins to encode to mpeg2
in asf format it took 1hr and approx. 40mins to encode to mpeg2
in avi the overall file size in mpeg2 was approx. 1.3gbs
in asf the overall file size in mpeg2 was approx 710mbs
in avi source i can play it on my computer using wma, etc......
in asf source i could not play on my computer using anything
in avi source i burned 2CDS with nero onto svcd great quality playback in my apex 1100w
in asf source i burned 1CD with nero onto svcd same quality in my apex 1100w

[monarc_2000]

can you post what your settings are for windows media encoder to convert from avi to asf. i'm not having any luck

[vitualis]

ASF is a lossy format. If you encode to ASF first (or DivX or anything else that isn't lossless), you've lost all the glorious detail in the original DVD...

For future reference, only direct DVD --> SVCD methods (e.g., DVD2AVI) are taken seriously.

Regards.

[Dave B]

The source of a VCD/SVCD is unrelated to the final file size after conversion. As homerpez mentioned earlier 99% of the final filesize is dependant on the video and audio bitrates used during encoding.

This means that a 5 gig DVD rip, when passed through say TMPGEnc will produce almost exactly the same filesize as an ASF version of the same video after that has also passed through TMPGEnc with the same settings.

When using a constant bitrate - the maths is simple and 130mins at 2000kbps just ain't gonna fit.

[y2flyy]

what are you guys talking about
it was not a dvd-rip
i did not get this movie from a dvd
i d/l it off the net
i see what you are trying to say in terms of the bitrate used during encoding
but i did john q last night the same way
i used the same settings for the avi and asf files
but the asf source only took up ONE cd
and the avi needed 2cds
john q I think was 120mins
and the end quality was exactly the same when played in my dvd player
i dont understand what you guys dont understand about it
just try what im talking and post your results

[scissors]

he'e not confused.

It's a piece of piss to get 120 svcd on on 80min cdr.

use dvd2avi to get project file.
convert to avi wrap around.

load into tmpeg.

Okay the crucial bits.
NTSC is easier. why? because the frame size is smaller.
yes but there are more frames.

no. when you use dvd2avi you use FORCE FIELD and the output is 23.fps.

you then use 3:2 pulldown in tmpeg.

bitrates.

use CQ. bitrate 2200, quality varies 44-56, depends on film length and type of film. GOP makes a difference. standard is okay, 1,4,4,0 is good
1,12,3 i'm playing with but can't make my mind up. If you think about it logically you want as many b and p frames per i.

lastly - the film is letterboxed to 16:9 or 2.35:1

in advanced use centre custom size at 432 w 320 h.

also important, if the source is interlaced in tmpeg, let tmpeg know.
(important as some pal film are interlaced)

in the above forcing to 23fps makes it progressive.

using vcdimager to burn you can safely get a 780..800mb mpeg on a 80min cdr.

i did the whole of swordfish in about a 50-600 mb file.

pal discs are harder, you've don't pretty good at 90mins

[Truman]

the res is at 480x480 mpeg2
bitrate at 2000kbs constant

^^^^^^
The filesize of the final MPEG does not depend on the source file size or the source format.
120minutes @ 2000 kbps ~1717 MB. You say you can fit it on 1 CD. Respect.

[scissors]

he probably meant constant quality.

[avl1]

Sounds mysterious. Just a wild guess I have. y2flyy, you probably watched the whole 130 min svcd after you burned it. If not, maybe there's just a piece of the movie in that asf download you made?

[air360]

ok guys...first off.....i havent tried this method yet but i am about to.
but.,..you shouldnt be getting so pissed at him.
he tried a method, it worked....and he is ASKING for your opinion...he isnt saying this way will work everytime....he isnt saying that he found a revolutionary way to encode he isnt saying any of that...he simply tried a method and it worked and now he is sharing the information with you. and also....another reason you shouldnt get mad at him.....he isnt rtying to hide his methods like some people.....you asked him to go into more detail...he went into more detail....you asked him a question....he answered.....HE IS TRYING TO WORK WITH YOU HERE.....DONT KILL HIM DAMN IT. I havent seen him trying to force this way on anyone like some other people i have seen.......
so y2flyy....thanks for sharing your info with us....it may work...it may not....but thanks for sharing...

[baker]

it is quite possible that asf discards unneccessary info (like divx does) thus leaving less info to encode and creating a smaller file.

baker

[y2flyy]

thanks alot air for backing me up
they keep saying this jibber jabber about source file and output does not matter
but i had at least 30 emails yesterday and today saying either that its works or they are trying it out and thanking me
like i said im not saying that I found a new format or anything like that
i just thought i found something that maybe no one has tried and if they have let ppl know
i dont care what they say no matter what ive done in the past i couldnt even come close to fitting an svcd on one cd
but ive done it with 4 different movies in 2 days and the quality is excellent svcd quality
maybe i need to post the mpeg on a server and let you d/l it or something
what am i saying wrong here this is the only board were im getting bashed at
just try it and help me out
maybe im wrong but im trying to figure it out
does anyone know any extensive detail on what an asf file does differently than an avi file??
maybe there is more to this
maybe not
but somethings going on

[scissors]

what a bunch of dorks!

if we can't do it ....

THE SOURCE file format doesn't make that much difference.

the TYPE of source does. MPEG works on frame diferences.
A brand new cartoon such a shrek will easily mpeg to about 500Meg.

why? because there aren't many differences from frame to frame.

a 1973 grainy colour film is the worst, because every frame is "different".
that's why you have noise reduction filters.

you lot should stick to VCD - there's no thought or understanding needed.

I'm not saying i'm some sort of expert - i'm just saying those fools who say you can't do 120 mins on a single disc sit searching these and other forums waiting for the idiots guide instead of experimenting themseleves.

I could get 3 hours on one disc. It would be 100x100 letterbox - but it would still work!!!!

[cybermage26]

id like to see some samples
ASAP!!
cya

[LFLFM]

y2flyy, could you possibly produce an EXACT step-by-step guide (SS would help) in detail.
This is so we can know the very exact settings and everything that you are doing, and then there will be hardly any questions about it again innit?

Plus you'd be helping a lot of people 8)

[scissors]

this is my last post on this subject - it's boring. IT IS POSSIBLE.
I will only now reply to posts that say, "yes it works, i've found if you use this setting you can do this"

the rest of you **** you!

below is my base NTSC tmpeg settings. It's not rigid because as i said, it depends on the film.

do ONE MIN d2v project as test from the middle of you film. The size of the mpeg produced you devide into 800 mb. This is how much of the particular film you could get on a disc.

i recommend 432x320 for region 1 discs and 432x352 for region2 discs.
you cannot do the 3:2 pulldown trick with pal discs (worse luck)

my BASIC TMPEG template.


oh yeah, who chose the doubting thomas moderator!!!?

-------cut -------

object TMPEGConfigFile
MPEG.Text = ''
MPEG.Description = ''
MPEG.OutputStreamType = MPEG_OutputStreamType_System_VideoAudio
MPEG.OutputStreamType_ReadOnly = False
MPEG.Video.StreamType = MPEGVideoEncoder_StreamType_MPEG2
MPEG.Video.StreamType_ReadOnly = False
MPEG.Video.Width = 480
MPEG.Video.Width_ReadOnly = False
MPEG.Video.Height = 480
MPEG.Video.Height_ReadOnly = False
MPEG.Video.YUVFormat = 1
MPEG.Video.YUVFormat_ReadOnly = False
MPEG.Video.DC_prec = 2
MPEG.Video.DC_prec_ReadOnly = False
MPEG.Video.VideoEncodeMode = MPEGVideoEncoder_VideoEncodeMode_Progressive_32Pul ldown
MPEG.Video.VideoEncodeMode_ReadOnly = False
MPEG.Video.VideoEncodeMode_CantSelExtType = False
MPEG.Video.TopFieldFirst = False
MPEG.Video.FrameRate = 1
MPEG.Video.FrameRate_ReadOnly = False
MPEG.Video.AspectRatio = 1
MPEG.Video.AspectRatio_ReadOnly = False
MPEG.Video.RateControlMode = MPEGVideoEncoder_RateControlMode_CQ
MPEG.Video.RateControlMode_ReadOnly = False
MPEG.Video.MaxBitRate = 0
MPEG.Video.MaxBitRate_ReadOnly = False
MPEG.Video.CBR_BitRate = 1150000
MPEG.Video.MVBR_MaxBitRate = 2000000
MPEG.Video.MVBR_MinBitRate = 0
MPEG.Video.MVBR_Quality_P = 0
MPEG.Video.MVBR_Quality_B = 20
MPEG.Video.MVBR_EnablePadding = False
MPEG.Video.VBR_AvgBitRate = 1150000
MPEG.Video.VBR_MaxBitRate = 2260000
MPEG.Video.VBR_MinBitRate = 300000
MPEG.Video.VBR_EnablePadding = False
MPEG.Video.AVBR_Quality = 19
MPEG.Video.AVBR_MaxBitRate = 2350000
MPEG.Video.AVBR_MinBitRate = 0
MPEG.Video.AVBR_EnablePadding = False
MPEG.Video.CQ_Quality = 54
MPEG.Video.CQ_Quality_P = 0
MPEG.Video.CQ_Quality_B = 30
MPEG.Video.CQ_MaxBitRate = 2200000
MPEG.Video.CQ_MinBitRate = 0
MPEG.Video.CQ_EnablePadding = False
MPEG.Video.VBVBufferSize = 0
MPEG.Video.VBVBufferSize_ReadOnly = False
MPEG.Video.GOP_SeqHeaderInterval = 0
MPEG.Video.GOP_SeqHeaderInterval_ReadOnly = False
MPEG.Video.GOP_I_FrameCount = 1
MPEG.Video.GOP_I_FrameCount_ReadOnly = False
MPEG.Video.GOP_P_FrameCount = 5
MPEG.Video.GOP_P_FrameCount_ReadOnly = False
MPEG.Video.GOP_B_FrameCount = 2
MPEG.Video.GOP_B_FrameCount_ReadOnly = False
MPEG.Video.GOP_BitStreamForEdit = False
MPEG.Video.GOP_BitStreamForEdit_ReadOnly = False
MPEG.Video.QuantizeMatrix_Intra_ReadOnly = False
MPEG.Video.QuantizeMatrix_NonIntra_ReadOnly = False
MPEG.Video.Profile = 4
MPEG.Video.Profile_ReadOnly = False
MPEG.Video.Level = 8
MPEG.Video.Level_ReadOnly = False
MPEG.Video.VideoFormat = 2
MPEG.Video.VideoFormat_ReadOnly = False
MPEG.Video.DisplayWidth = 0
MPEG.Video.DisplayWidth_ReadOnly = False
MPEG.Video.DisplayHeight = 0
MPEG.Video.DisplayHeight_ReadOnly = False
MPEG.Video.MotionSearchSpeed = MPEGVideoEncoder_MotionSearchSpeed_MotionEstimate
MPEG.Video.MotionSearch_AlwaysHalfPel = True
MPEG.Video.UseFloatDCT = False
MPEG.Video.QuantizeMode = False
MPEG.Video.QuantizeModeVal_Intra = 50
MPEG.Video.QuantizeModeVal_NonIntra = 80
MPEG.Video.YUVBasicYCbCr = False
MPEG.Video.QuantizeMatrix_Intra = {
081013161A1B1D22101016181B1D222513161A1B1D22222616 161A1B1D222528
161A1B1D202328301A1B1D202328303A1A1B1D22262E38451B 1D23262E384553}
MPEG.Video.QuantizeMatrix_NonIntra = {
10101010101010101010101010101010101010101010101010 10101010101010
10101010101010101010101010101010101010101010101010 10101010101010}
MPEG.Audio.StreamType = MPEGAudioEncoder_StreamType_MPEG1_Layer2
MPEG.Audio.StreamType_ReadOnly = False
MPEG.Audio.SamplingFrequency = 44100
MPEG.Audio.SamplingFrequency_ReadOnly = False
MPEG.Audio.ChannelMode = 1
MPEG.Audio.ChannelMode_ReadOnly = False
MPEG.Audio.CantUseMono = False
MPEG.Audio.BitRate = 96000
MPEG.Audio.BitRate_ReadOnly = False
MPEG.Audio.CalcCRC = False
MPEG.Audio.CalcCRC_ReadOnly = False
MPEG.Audio.OriginalFlag = False
MPEG.Audio.OriginalFlag_ReadOnly = False
MPEG.Audio.CopyrightFlag = False
MPEG.Audio.CopyrightFlag_ReadOnly = False
MPEG.Audio.PrivateFlag = False
MPEG.Audio.PrivateFlag_ReadOnly = False
MPEG.Audio.EmphasisType = 0
MPEG.Audio.EmphasisType_ReadOnly = False
MPEG.System.StreamType = MPEGSystemEncoder_StreamType_MPEG2_SuperVideoCD_VB R
MPEG.System.StreamType_ReadOnly = False
MPEG.System.CommentText = ''
MPEG.System.EnableCommentText = False
end

[scissors]

y2flyy, could you possibly produce an EXACT step-by-step guide (SS would help) in detail.
This is so we can know the very exact settings and everything that you are doing, and then there will be hardly any questions about it again innit?

Plus you'd be helping a lot of people 8)

i refer you to my obviuosly unread text

I'm not saying i'm some sort of expert - i'm just saying those fools who say you can't do 120 mins on a single disc sit searching these and other forums waiting for the idiots guide instead of experimenting themseleves

why don't you just say "I am lazy, give me everything on a plate"

[vhelp]

scissors, (this is not an attack, K?)

hay dude, looks like your 432x352 or 432x320 will not play on a tv set
cause its not fit within the 352x240/480, 480x480, etc. range.
So, in looking at this already, I can't see how you can make a CD (vcd
or svcd) (weather your template works or not) with these resolution.
So, based on this, already these claims of 120min are flawed.
We (us unbelievers) are basing this on CD burns to play in our dvd
players, not our pc. We ALL can jimmy (with tricks and minipulations)
an MPEG-1 or MPEG-2 file to fit (oops, i ment, to cram) the filesize
down to 120min., bla, bla

I'm not here to attack you or call your bluff.

But, anyhow, I've ben doing some of my own experiments w/ DIVx.
I found a piece of clis from a friend on cd, (shrek) and encoded it
to a vcd. in short, it was crap on my pc (divx and even the vcd)
when I played burned to a vcd and played on tv, still crap (ok, lousy)
but. My point I was trying to make was that these non-standard files
that we d/l, etc. will almost always have a strange outcome with we
re-encode them, say, w/ tmpg for instance. I've had first hand
experience with this yesterday. ie, I encoded a 6000 frame DIVx file
in only 2 mins versoin 5 or so if it were from a straight DVD source.
So, with non-standard sources, anamileez will happen. Sometimes good,
and sometimes bad, sometimes, etc, etc.

scissors, are you saying that 432x352/320 will play w/ no probl on tv??

tanks.
-vhelp

[scissors]

well i broke my rule and answered....

scissors, (this is not an attack, K?)

hay dude, looks like your 432x352 or 432x320 will not play on a tv set
cause its not fit within the 352x240/480, 480x480, etc. range.

IF you bothered to load the template!!!!!!!!

it's 480x480. It's the advanced settings that are

CENTERED, CUSTOM SIZE 432x320 ie it letterboxes it for you.
the overall picture is 480x480 complying with svcd standard.

It's all that loverly black border that takes up no mpeg bitrate cus it never changes.

[quote="vhelp"]

So, in looking at this already, I can't see how you can make a CD (vcd
or svcd) (weather your template works or not) with these resolution.
So, based on this, already these claims of 120min are flawed.
We (us unbelievers) are basing this on CD burns to play in our dvd
players, not our pc. We ALL can jimmy (with tricks and minipulations)
an MPEG-1 or MPEG-2 file to fit (oops, i ment, to cram) the filesize
down to 120min., bla, bla

[/quote="vhelp"]

it's plays on ALL SVCD/dvd players.

LOOK! how long does it take to bloody try????

get cladmec, start ripping, let it run for 1 min. cancel. You have XMb of a vob.

drag it into dvd2avi. mark the start and end, do about a mins worth.
preferably do a yank film and do force film on video so it's output is 23fps.

load the d2v file into tmpeg or preferably convert the d2v to avi - this takes 10secs as it's only a pointer.

load the template. run it. you will end up with a 480x480 29fps NTSC svcd compliant mpeg. all you gotta do is demux and remux with BBmpeg so you add svcd scan offsets, saving vcdimager doing it on the fly.

Why is it that there is a great "how to" with avisynth and cinema craft post on the home page of vcd help, that states all the way through, you don't need this if you use tmpeg cus it letter boxes for you.

I'm only telling you all so maybe there'll be loads more around save me and my mates have to do all the bloody work.

there is a 4 discs lord of the rings knocking round. well i stuck it back through flask and there's a 2 disc one now.

you never know, it might reach you one day.


But, anyhow, I've ben doing some of my own experiments w/ DIVx.
I found a piece of clis from a friend on cd, (shrek) and encoded it
to a vcd. in short, it was crap on my pc (divx and even the vcd)
when I played burned to a vcd and played on tv, still crap (ok, lousy)
but.

i don't think you ACTUALLY read the messages. these are DVD RIPS!!!!!!

divx to anything is crap because the bit rate is not there. you are take 600Kbs and re-encoding to 2000Kbps.

if you don't understand that then you really don't know anything.



scissors, are you saying that 432x352/320 will play w/ no probl on tv??

it's 480x480, letterboxed to 432x320, it's got lots of BLACK BORDER around it. When you play it on your widescreen TV you use 16:9 zoom to fill the screen.

god, it's so obvious and easy.


so, finally and once again i shall sledge hammer it into your heads.
the mpeg is 480x480 NTSC 23fps with a 3:2 pulldown on playback (ie 29fps). The picture is 432x320 with borders all around, making the TOTAL, picture+border up to 480x480. IT IS 100% compliant.
IT IS FROM DVD ,ripped with cladmec. IT IS NOTHING to do with Div bloody X.

it is straight VOB to mpeg2. Settings in tmpeg 2200-2300kbps. CQ 40-54, depending on the film, which is why you do a one min test, so you can adjust.

I have swordfish,planet of the apes,shrek,mysterymen(120+ mins), ghosts of mars, all one spunky bloddy standard compliant play on ANY machine svcd.

[y2flyy]

hey thanks alot for yall support
sorry it took so long for me to reply
im getting alot of help from a college friend who know alot more about video encoding
he also said that its no surprise for an asf to output
a less mpeg file size, he says its a surprise that
no one else has tried it
and even the vcdhelp.com definition of an asf states exactly that
it reads ----"What's ASF?
Another AVI-Codec, great quality for the size. Just more blocky then MPG, but can shrink down a full length movie to about 300-500mb "

but anyway here is some more help on how to convert avi to asf
i search in google for tutorials on how to convert avi to asf
but i found vcdhelp.com one work for me
goto how to convert to asf using window media tools
make sure you download the older version of windows media tools
b/c the newest one gvies me problems
but basically follow the directions that vcdhelp state
match the res and bitrate with your avi properties
when you set the encode
once you have the asf file convert it to mpeg2 svcd
again i used the newest version of tmpenc and loaded
kingviper's svcd template
the mpeg2 file didnot play on my computer but once i burned it to a disc it played in my new apex 1100w
in SVCD format
thanks alot for your support again any questions just email me
right now me and my friend is working on a full tutorial to offer you guys
again if im wrong here or jumping the gun Im sorry to the experts
but like i said what i see i believe
and the guy thats helping me has a degree in computer tech so he know what hes talking about
but this is not about right vs. wrong im just trying to share something
I found
Thanks Alot
Y2Flyy

[vitualis]

Keep your cool or this thread will be locked...

What you people don't realise is that putting 2 hours onto a SVCD is trivial. The question is whether or not the end result is worth watching. To this end, people obviously have different standards but I for one have never seen any template that produces a 2 hour SVCD onto one standard disc (80 min) consistently that looks even as good as VCD.

To do so means that your video must look as good as VCD at about 60% of the standard VCD bitrate.

As for putting a movie onto 2 discs for SVCD, isn't that what everybody does?? You haven't discovered or described anything new.

Regards.