HERE's HOW TO FIT 120mins movie on one cd in SVCD FORMAT!!!!

[Bigswaffo]

kwag,
i also tried this with behind enemy lines and the quality to start with is good. the resolution on that is 352x288. the blocks are not a problem with any of these two after virtualdub. are you saying that if you have a low resolution such as these, that it won't look good in 352x480? all the movies i download are like that so if i can't convert it to 352x480, what should i convert it to?

[kwag]

kwag,
i also tried this with behind enemy lines and the quality to start with is good. the resolution on that is 352x288. the blocks are not a problem with any of these two after virtualdub. are you saying that if you have a low resolution such as these, that it won't look good in 352x480? all the movies i download are like that so if i can't convert it to 352x480, what should i convert it to?

You won't gain any quality, because you're upscaling 352x288 to 352x480, and actually you will make quality worse!.

All you can gain here is space by using the template, by changing the output size to 352x288. And you also have to change the frame rate for what I see you have a PAL mpeg file. So change that to 25fps.

Use the bitrate viewer ( http://www.tecoltd.com ) to be sure that your resolution and frame rate are as you describe, and then make the changes to the template.

That way you'll keep the same quality, but on a much smaller file.

[Bigswaffo]

thanks kwag!

but i'm curious. why change the frame rate to 25 fps?

[migisi]

Hey fly,
One problem, mostly cuz I'm a dumb newbie, but I cannot find the Windows Media Encoder as illustrated in the Help Section (in a previous post you even said it was causing you trouble). I only can find WME 7.1. Kinda stuck, I will try without ASF conversion, but I would like to try your way.

[Scav]

Bigswaffo,
Many thanks for the link you posted to the ArsTechnica forum, above. I spent the day browsing through their posts, and they've done some amazing things with three-path filter blending in VDub to clean up video (there are some more recent post than the one you provided, that have even spiffier filter chains.) Their focus is on noise reduction, but members of this forum may be interested in their techniques because applying these "cleansing" filters before TMPGenc, seems to decrease resultant file size considerably.

[Bigswaffo]

are the newer posts on the link that i gave, or are they on another page? could you please post a link to the newer posts?
Thanks. :lol:

[ratabase1]

Hey fly,
One problem, mostly cuz I'm a dumb newbie, but I cannot find the Windows Media Encoder as illustrated in the Help Section (in a previous post you even said it was causing you trouble). I only can find WME 7.1. Kinda stuck, I will try without ASF conversion, but I would like to try your way.

I think the media encoder illustrated in the Help Section is part of Windows Media Tools 4.0. If I am wrong, someone please correct me. I don't believe this package is made any longer, but I found a download for this at http://www.freepctech.com/pc/002/files011.shtml. Hope this helps you.

[Scav]

Bigswaffo,

Here ya go, some really interesting threads about filter chaining in VDub:

DEC:
http://arstechnica.infopop.net/OpenTopic/page?a=tpc&s=50009562&f=67909965&m=2830999723

FEB:
http://arstechnica.infopop.net/OpenTopic/page?a=tpc&s=50009562&f=67909965&m=4310988573

MARCH:
http://arstechnica.infopop.net/OpenTopic/page?a=tpc&s=50009562&f=67909965&m=5920996493

And an interesting one from jUNE:
http://arstechnica.infopop.net/OpenTopic/page?q=Y&a=tpc&s=50009562&f=67909965&m=5460954161&p=3

And ther FAQ page has a number of good discussion links:
http://faq.arstechnica.com/?i=3

[Trailryder]

Kwag,
The movie I'm working with is AVI in 29.7fps. I was going to try converting it to 23.9 with your template. Seems like that would make for a smaller file size and you say that most DVDs are 23.9 Film and play back as 29.7 on a DVD player. Am I wrong in trying to do this? I have several 25fps AVIs too that I'm going to try converting too.

Thanks for your help.

[sean madison]

i dont know if there is some "fact" at this but from over the years of doing this, i have noticed this-

Frame rates are like resolution changes.
Technically, if u encode at a higher res, the quality is suppose to get worse, but i dont have that problem anymore, but anyways, same as frame rates too!

If ur frame rate is 25, changing any lower or any higher, could and usually will result in more blocks occuring.

Here is my theoretical idea on this-

ur source is 25 fps, ur output is 29.97. U have more fps than source so when played back, it has additional information to "guess" on and tries its best to do it but results in making more blocks appear cuz of extra info that wasnt there and same with a less fps. Taking out frames MAKES the video change frames more quickly causing blocks cuz frames are not blending in properly.

This is a theoretical perspective and i hope i'm right since that is what i think happens.

[bilbogod]

Ok Kwag, hands down you win. That template is frigging awesome
I really dont know how it could get any better. Is this template being hosted on the site yet ??? (sorry I couldn't be arsed to check )It certainly should be. Sefy I'm gonna check yours next, but your sure as hell gonna have your work cut out

[bilbogod]

Enough of the flattery and on with the question... I want to fit for a friend 3 episodes of Farscape onto 1 80min cd. First episode is 50 mins and the second and third are 48 and 49 I think. The file size with the first episode was 278 MB (I used pal 25fps, 4:3 output and input and 128kbps audio). Herein lies the problem. I'm asking for the impossible; a way to economise on approx 40Mb more so as to make sure they all fit on that cd Any ideas ?? Btw, would I be correct in assuming that since the dvd source is 4:3 it is actually using more bitrate than if it were 16:9 ?? If that is the case, could I simply insert widescreen bars without detriment to the overall picture in order to bring the filesize down a tad ??
Sorry for all the questions, learning is fun u know

[bilbogod]

Alternatively - Now this is a really funky idea.... Perhaps there is a way that I could just have episode 2 and 3 automatically reverting to the end credits of episode 1 in order to free up some space. If this is possible then how??

[MITSUI_1]

Why don't ya just do a simple VCD menu, like so:


Pick please!

1. Episode 1
2. Episode 2
3. Episode 3
4. Credits

[whitetigerboy]

Boy! some people really get hot under the collar when other people haven't studiously absorbed all their opinions and instructions (scissors) - back off - this forum IS for Newbies!
the question is fly, is the SVCD from .asf honestly COMPARABLE in quality to the SVCD from .avi? Do you notice No Degradation, almost no degradation, some degradation or plenty-but-I-don't care degradation?
I've been very curious as to why some .avi files I d/l'd converted to single cd-able svcd's vs. others that take up 2 when screen size, play length and sound/image quality were similar.
I'm also really curious about Vitualis' statement that SVCD doesn't look as good as VCD - it's been my experience that the opposite is generally true; TMPGEnc will make a decent mpeg1 from a good DivX and the resulting VCD will LOOK (almost) as good as the SVCD you might have made, but the file isn't much smaller and the SOUND is definitely inferior.
Also, fly, I have a P4, 1.6ghz, and a gig of ram and it still takes TMPGenc about 3 1/2 hrs to convert a 120 min movie to mpeg2, even when I set the task priorities to high. What are you doing to get it done in 1 hr 40?

[kwag]

Kwag,
The movie I'm working with is AVI in 29.7fps. I was going to try converting it to 23.9 with your template. Seems like that would make for a smaller file size and you say that most DVDs are 23.9 Film and play back as 29.7 on a DVD player. Am I wrong in trying to do this? I have several 25fps AVIs too that I'm going to try converting too.

Thanks for your help.

Here's the whole explanation on framerates, Inverse Telecine, etc..

http://nickyguides.digital-digest.com/interlace.htm

kwag

[bilbogod]

MITSUI_1 : I take it your referring to menus and chapters creation, something I not actually ever learnt. Still if this is what I need to do then I will have a play with the various available tools before asking further questions. Alternatively maybe you meant that I should simply cut the credits off 2 of the episodes using only the one set after all three episodes have finished. I'm not sure I can really get away with doing this for my friend...

[MITSUI_1]

Well, what I had in mind was cutting the credits off of all three, and recording the credits from one episode as a fourth track on the VCD.

You can use a simple Nero menu to do all four.

I mean, hey...

One question: Are these all full screen episodes?

If so, use avisynth to crop (that's right CROP) 16 pixels each from the left and right, and 32 pixels each from the top and bottom (this is assuming you're using 352x480). Then do an addborders to put the 16 and 32 pixel borders back using black bars. The bars are almost exactly coextensive with the overscan areas on most NTSC televisions. The left and right borders will still be slightly off the screen, while on the bottom and the top your picture will be letterboxed by about 1/4 to 1/2 of an inch. Well worth it if your having space proglems.

That will allow you to reduce bitrate (if you're doing CBR or 2PASSVBR) by 18 to 21 percent without suffering any degredation in quality.

With CQ_CBR, you SHOULD be able to use the exact same settings you have now, and wind up with a smaller file. But because of the way CQ_VBR works, you may not necessarily have a 20% smaller file. The nix factor there is if your current settings are "starving" a lot of scenes for bitrate, the extra headroom you're generating with the borders will be eaten up by the encoders on those scenes. So, if you insist on doing CQ_VBR, I'd drop the "MAX" bitrate figure by 18 to 20 percent after adding the borders.

Let me know how it works.

[bilbogod]

Thanks for the info, there is some good tips in there.....
The episodes are full screen and the only contact I've had with avisynth is the bundled inclusion within DVD2SVCD. With your Nero suggestion I was originally thinking along these lines, although I would need to find a way to get my player to keep skipping to track4 at the end of each episode.
Btw my resolution is 352 x 288, my dvd wouldn't support 352 x 480 ....

[alkieman]

Try all this on a very big TV screen and you'll choose the extra expense of a DVD-R.

I tried your template and it would NOT play on my Pioneer DV-606D nor my newer Pioneer 737. It WOULD NOT play on my friends Sony S7700, nor on another friends Samsung dual VHS/DVD deck.

It did play on one of the cheaper Apex models but on a 47 inch widescreen set the blockiness was very noticeable.

Personally with blank DVD-R available for 2$/£ each, I think the extra costs are worth it.

Good luck if your are happy though.

[MITSUI_1]

Avisynth Script:

Assumes input resolution is NOT at final xVCD resolution and that we're using Krag's 352x480 method.

[load your avisource or mpeg source first in the script]

BilinearResize(352,480)
Crop(16,32,320,416)
AddBorders(16,32,16,32)


Result: 352x480 with black borders in order to save space.

[Trailryder]

Just finished converting Miss Congeniality 23.9fps AVI to mpeg 23.9 with Kwags template. Was going to burn in Nero but I get a message saying
"invalid video stream 29.7fps, 352x480 pixels"
Says I am creating a VCD V2.0 (CD-i player) compliant cd but the mpeg is not suitable for such a disc. Wants to know how to procede.

What's a CD-i player? Should I tell it to "turn off standard compliance and continue"?

If I do, will the VCD play in my stand alone DVD player?

Thanks.

[kwag]

Just finished converting Miss Congeniality 23.9fps AVI to mpeg 23.9 with Kwags template. Was going to burn in Nero but I get a message saying
"invalid video stream 29.7fps, 352x480 pixels"
Says I am creating a VCD V2.0 (CD-i player) compliant cd but the mpeg is not suitable for such a disc. Wants to know how to procede.

What's a CD-i player? Should I tell it to "turn off standard compliance and continue"?

If I do, will the VCD play in my stand alone DVD player?

Thanks.

Yes, you turn OFF standard compliance check. Then you can burn it.

What brand/model is your DVD player? and BTW, what total size did Miss Congeniality come out to?.

kwag

[Trailryder]

Thanks Kwag,
The AVI was 698mb and the mpeg came out to be 590mb. My player is a Panasonic DVD-RP-56.

Am I gonna have to burn it in PAL or can I burn it NTSC. The manual for my player says: signal system-NTSC.
Will play VCD as well as CD-R/CD-RW VCD formatted discs.

[kwag]

Thanks Kwag,
The AVI was 698mb and the mpeg came out to be 590mb. My player is a Panasonic DVD-RP-56.

Am I gonna have to burn it in PAL or can I burn it NTSC. The manual for my player says: signal system-NTSC.
Will play VCD as well as CD-R/CD-RW VCD formatted discs.

Burn it NTSC, because if you used the template with 23.976fps, that's NTSC.

BTW, do you know what is the original resolution of your AVI?. Because if it was not 23.976 and the resolution was below 352x480, you won't like the results!.

Remember this template is for an input source resolution of at least 352x480 or above. If your original AVI was a 352x240 or 352x288, you "Upscaled" the resolution with the template, and your results will be less quality than the original.

[Trailryder]

Kwag
Geez man, it's after 1:00 in the morn. Don't you have anything better to do? LOL

The properties box says the AVI is 23.9fps, 640x352 resolution.

Thanks for getting back to me dude!

[kwag]

LOL and it's 3:30am here!, I guess software development keeps me up late, plus a couple of mpeg compressions on the side

I saw you have a Panasonic RP-56. Me too. You won't have any problems playing the format. It plays all xVCD's fine.

kwag

[bilbogod]

Holy cow I've done it..... All 150 mins of Farscape went on in the end. Total file size 788MB.
I've just compared it to the original dvd and whilst the sound (128kbps) is obviously not as crisp as the original, it looks bloody amazing. The weird thing is that Kwags template makes vcd which looks better than my early attempts with TMPGenc. The standard vcd templates for these are at higher bitrates as well. This just seems to prove that it is not how much bitrate you have to use, but what you do with it that counts.
My only dilemma now is whether to start using this template more often . I always do 3cd DVD2SVCD encodes for stuff that I like, but this is an extreme temptation considering how much faster and economic it is.

[cybermage26]

holy shit bilbo! LOL

Did you fiddle with the settings at all..? if so whatd ya change?
150mins on VCD is a lot haha!

Great going Kwag, I dont have a dvd-rom so havent yet had a chance to try this out propely, but will try to soon. Sounds too good

Keep it up dude.

[bilbogod]

Hi, Cyberimage26. I was wondering when you were gonna show up to test this out. I had to make a few changes in order that my player would accept it as follows. Changed to PAL settings i.e. 25 fps, selected non-interlace progressive for the dvd source, and altered the res to 352 x 288 (my standalone not accepting 352 x 480). The audio was left at 128, and with hindsight I should have amplified it a little with Cooledit Pro or something. What made this all the more impressive is the fact that Farscape is in 4:3 pan+scan i.e no widescreen bars and hence more bitrate intensive, yet it still looked bloody brilliant considering. You gotta try this out. Let us know what you think....