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  1. Member
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    Originally Posted by ricoman View Post
    Nope, it's an ES10 and I've recorded directly from HBO and also recorded off of my DVR because it's easier to set program times. It's been a few years, but I remember in forums people discussing that with the ES15 (I think) you could no longer record the protected programs because the recorder makers were forced by Hollywood (or Hollywood forced legislation) in new recorders to add a feature to block protected programming. Prior to that there were a number of makes that didn't include the block feature. At that time there was a run on these recorders.
    If you still have it, look on page 4 of the ES10's manual under "What you can do with this unit". Mine has a row labeled "Recording broadcasts that allow one copy" and under the DVD-RAM column it states that CPRM compatible discs are required. (That's how I knew that it pays attention to the CGMS-A flag.)

    If yours does not say that, then at some point Panasonic made some changes to the DMR-ES10 to comply with the new law, and two different versions of this model are in circulation.

    It has stopped recording because it detected something other than CGMS-A "Copy Freely". The one time I can remember clearly was while I was watching and recording one of CBS's Jesse Stone movies, of all things. There was some kind of mistake in the network feed that cleared up within a minute or so.
    Last edited by usually_quiet; 26th Apr 2010 at 19:06. Reason: grammar
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    Honestly I think it's more about the STB than the ES-10.
    While some newer DVDRs are overly sensitive to CP, even the old ones obeyed real CP. My guess is even a current DVDR(one that's not apt to report false positives for CP, insert Sony and new Toshibas here) would also record in the same setup.
    It's possible their is something wrong with the ES-10 allowing it to record CP'd sources but more than likely it's the STB.
    A good test would be to take a current commercial DVD(Disney would be best) and try and copy that with the ES-10(using a DVD player fed to the ES-10's line input). Now if that works you've got a keeper of a DVDR.
    BTW the ES-10 is the entry level model from '05 which many swear have good passthru filtering for VHS dubs.
    If you're talking about the E10 that's the original US Panasonic DVDR from '00
    I have several ES-30vs from '05 and while they never report a false CP they do fail to record CP'd DVDs or VHS tapes to DVD.
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  3. Member Seeker47's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by ricoman View Post
    Originally Posted by usually_quiet View Post
    Could you possibly have a DMR-E10 instead? If not, then something other than the DVD recorder is responsible for your success. I have an Panasonic DMR-ES10 that I purchased in 2005. The manual say it obeys CGMS-A restrctions, and I have seen for myself that it does.
    Nope, it's an ES10 and I've recorded directly from HBO and also recorded off of my DVR because it's easier to set program times. It's been a few years, but I remember in forums people discussing that with the ES15 (I think) you could no longer record the protected programs because the recorder makers were forced by Hollywood (or Hollywood forced legislation) in new recorders to add a feature to block protected programming. Prior to that there were a number of makes that didn't include the block feature. At that time there was a run on these recorders.
    No, there's a bit more to it than that. The critical factor (except with DVDR models that were hyper-sensitive, as part of a bad design, and which got trigger-happy on even a lot of non-copy-protected content) has been whether or not particular providers pass the no-copy flags along to you as part of the signal. I'm sure HBO, Showtime, etc. wanted every provider to do this as a matter of course, but the results were very spotty, apparently varying by different providers in different areas. Using a couple of different Pioneer DVDR models, I successfully recorded any of these premium services from Time Warner Cable in two different service regions, and from DirecTV in another. No TBC, Grex, or other black box gizmo required. But I have to qualify this by noting that all of the provider supplied cable or sat boxes were at least two year old models -- compared to whatever they are using today -- and I haven't had access to some of those providers or service areas since December, so at the moment I cannot assure you this all still applies, even with the same providers. But I hope to find out shortly.
    When in Las Vegas, don't miss the Pinball Hall of Fame Museum http://www.pinballmuseum.org/ -- with over 150 tables from 6+ decades of this quintessentially American art form.
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  4. Video Restorer lordsmurf's Avatar
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    I'm not aware of the broadcast flag being used anywhere in North America. All you hear is guesses by end users that are having problems -- it makes for an easy, albeit unlikely, thing to point the finger at.

    This was discussed today at http://www.digitalFAQ.com/forum/showthread.php/recording-problem-w-2187.html
    You can read about the court overruling the FCC at http://www.publicknowledge.org/issues/bfcase

    If you have issues recording TV, your problems lie elsewhere.
    Last edited by lordsmurf; 27th Apr 2010 at 17:12.
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    Originally Posted by lordsmurf View Post
    I'm not aware of the broadcast flag being used anywhere in North America. All you hear is guesses by end users that are having problems -- it makes for an easy, albeit unlikely, thing to point the finger at.

    This was discussed today at http://www.digitalFAQ.com/forum/showthread.php/recording-problem-w-2187.html
    You can read about the court overruling the FCC at http://www.publicknowledge.org/issues/bfcase

    If you have issues recording TV, your problems lie elsewhere.
    Not to be argumentative. Broadcast TV (over the air) maybe not, but my cable company certainly uses the copy never flag on some programs. Especially the premium channels. This may be different from the broadcast flag. I know you can't capture some HD output from the Component video from the cable box due to this protection. Video either looses sync (picture drops in and out) or my capture card indicates it can't be captured. To my knowledge they only do this on the HD channels, not the SD ones.

    rcubed
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  6. Originally Posted by Seeker47 View Post
    From your previous post, I got the impression that these were all but gone by this point. Not so ?Remind me -- what was the situation re the replaceability of this model's HDD or burner, down the line ? Surely it would not have been in the rare camp of the Lite-On or Polaroid models that made this a fairly trivial matter ?
    AFAIK the Magnavox H2160 is still available new via Wal*Mart and Target websites, what dried up was the occasional supply of incredibly cheap $159 refurbished units that Funai cleared out thru the J&R Electronics website. J&R recently confirmed that arrangement has ended.

    The Magnavox HDD is easily replaced or upgraded with off-the-shelf SATA drives, although you need to stay within the power supply's operational specs. Unlike the Pioneers (which need proprietary, expensive, impossible-to-find service discs and service remotes), the Magnavox HDD is replaced and formatted using only the front panel controls and a couple of "secret key combinations" on the standard remote. It took nearly three years to get an accurate answer on the optical drive, but Funai recently confirmed it can supply spare burners to consumers directly at a cost of $67 (chickenfeed compared to what you'd pay for a new Pioneer, Panasonic or Toshiba XS burner). You install the burner the same way you replace the HDD, using the front panel buttons and the number keys on the standard remote.

    Specific instructions on how to replace the Magnavox HDD and/or burner can be found with a Google search, others have laid it out in detail better than I could by posting here.
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    True, the broadcast flag isn't permitted to be used yet. Plus, as I understand it, it is only possible to use it when there is an digital signal.

    I had analog cable service (no STB), and an NTSC-only DVD recorder when the problem ocurred, so that rules out the broadcast flag as a possible cause. CGMS-A is the only thing that could have caused the recording to stop. HBO does have permission to use CGMS-A "Copy-Once" and "Copy Never", though the over-the-air networks don't.

    I did run across other reports of difficulties with recording that Jesse Stone movie shortly after it occurred, although Google and Bing failed to find any of them again today.

    Actual CGMS-A copy protection has inadvertently been included in other over-the-air network shows as well, so it isn't always a case of faulty CGMS-A detection. See: http://news.cnet.com/8301-10784_3-9954223-7.html?part=rss&subj=news&tag=2547-1_3-0-20
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  8. Far too goddamn old now EddyH's Avatar
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    Heh, how things change... I now have a Humax PVR (modded of course...) ... SO much better a machine than the stupid TopUpTV box. It's not absolutely bombproof, but probably within a couple nine's of VHS recorder reliability with much better flexibility. Still not entirely cracked the method of converting the mpeg2 straight to DVD (think I *did* manage it once?) but thankfully it never became an actual requirement to do that particularly often - a decent education-focussed VoD service came along just as I was ramping up to take over someone else's job (old guy who used to dub things to disc pretty much live...), even better it has a huge back archive available as well so the demand on our older tapes and discs is much reduced.

    Actually got through a couple of DVD recorders, there was a Lite-On somethingorother (model number has 5006 at the end is all I recall) that he left behind that started out a bit of a pain to use but reasonably solid, which I paired with an upmarket Toshiba one spotted in a pawn shop at a bargain price (which is actually how I came about the Humax as well, in a different trade-in place - couldn't believe it when I was randomly browsing then suddenly there was a HDR-FOX T2 sitting in front of me for less than a third what they usually go for on ebay ... had the guy plug it in and power it up, soon as it showed a picture on screen I had my wallet out...).

    The latter is a little fussier and makes menus that don't look anywhere near as nice, but is otherwise more flexible (rec modes, editing) and reliable... at least, it is now, because the laser diode has started to lose the will to live on the other one (surprising, given that I've otherwise found Lite-On products to be pretty hardcore and continuing to be serviceable LONG past the point where you'd expect any PC peripheral to be... maybe standalones just aren't their thing) and I've basically had to retire it. It DID at least allow the creation of huge scads of DVDRs... but the last three dozen or so aren't really usable. Thankfully for the most part I used DVDRWs and then ripped them to HDD, simply as an easy, reasonably decent quality analogue-to-digital transfer method... Though I still have the rewriteables and the physical single-use discs as a sort of backup, for the time being, the intent wasn't really to produce any kind of disc library, merely to fill up a multi-terabyte hard disc (or three) with VIDEO_TS folders (and, from the Humax and a USB TV tuner, TS/PS, MPG2 and MP4 files) that could either be played directly, converted to more compact format, or burned directly out to disc if someone was really adamant about using an Actual Dee Vee Dee.

    It's still the case that 2-hour mode is borderline acceptable for VHS capture (slightly better for DVBT), 2.5 is only worth it when splitting isn't an option, and even 1.5 hour sometimes has artefacting that you can see if you're looking for it, but on the whole it's nothing that anyone used to Youtube or free-to-air digital TV would be bothered by...

    So, funnily enough, it does actually turn out that not every DVD recorder is crap. The *format* is crap, and the essential material components are maybe not as bombproof as the optical disc hype would have you believe (laser diodes are essentially just LEDs with a crystal stuck on front, and LEDs do degrade both over time and with use) which is a bit of an issue at the point where it no longer quite shines bright enough any more given the rather all-or-nothing nature of digital recording and the need for a readable TOC, plus the media is incredibly variable in entirely unpredictable ways (some of the cheapest discs I've bought have been the most reliable, whilst the third-cheapest were literally unusable), and of course the recognition, pre-format, menu composing/writing and finalising stages are a pain in the backside, meaning the whole affair is just less well assured and more fiddly than anyone should have to bother with... but some manufacturers did at least try to make a decent product within those boundaries, and in some cases sort of succeeded. At least to the point where it's a less annoying method of turning videotape into binary code than most PC-based analogue capture devices (which are maybe the one thing I've actually had MORE trouble with... if it's not ludicrous minimum hardware requirements (in one particularly hilarious case, exceeding that of the computer it was bundled with), then it's a straight up refusal of the host machine to recognise the device (happened with at least two different items), or it sees it but can't configure it with anything but the horrific lash-up masquerading as the firstparty software, or can be used generically but makes a fairly free and unpredictable interpretation of what you meant by the chosen settings including often setting NTSC frame size and rate despite being asked for PAL... etc). The one remaining bugbear being low quality integrated TBCs (better than nothing, though - I'll take a half- or one-pixel bit of mousetooth over totally uncontrolled wobbling and tearing) and occasional frame order confusion (which is what drove me back here ...

    And not every PVR sucks balls ... just, like, most of them. Much like the 54GL-WRT router, or Windows XP, Humax managed to accidentally make the kind of machine you actually want (moreso once the thirdparty hackers started to mess with it), and have spent the time since trying to quietly backpedal from that point without losing too much face...

    I'm just glad I didn't have to pay more than the price of a tank of fuel for the car for any of them

    ...and, one day, I'll manage to get the Thompson to work well enough for long enough to work out which of its recordings I haven't since duplicated anyway, and peel them off through the analogue gap... (turns out that its encryption CAN'T be broken, not unless you engage in some fairly hardcore physical mods)

    Even so, it's quite nice to be suddenly largely living in the post-physical-recording-media age, where the main method of transfer is either network or USB stick. It'll take a lot to get me to actually part with my tapes and discs, as they only take up a bare few crates (vs, say, books, furniture, etc), but I'm quite happy to leave them as playback-only novelties from now on and concentrate on making as good a go as possible at conversion to mp4 instead. Even making audio CDs for people when they need them for exam board verification purposes has become a bit of a pain in the modern age, especially if you try to be a clever dick and make them into CD-Extras... turns out, after battling with ImgBurn and its ilk for ages, then finally digging out an old XP machine with a working copy of Nero on it, that modern computers can't even read them correctly anyway because of licensing issues. Which is possibly now going to become an increasing problem with Windows 10 and its sequelae, so in terms of Converting Absolutely Everything To MPEG Layer 4, the time is very much "now".
    Last edited by EddyH; 4th May 2017 at 04:16.
    -= She sez there's ants in the carpet, dirty little monsters! =-
    Back after a long time away, mainly because I now need to start making up vidcapped DVDRs for work and I haven't a clue where to start any more!
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  9. Member Seeker47's Avatar
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    I have a new question for Orsetto, one he may not have fielded here before. Choosing this thread over some others is kind of arbitrary, but it's still on-topic.

    What would you recommend for a Pio remote that is starting to get flakey, with keys partially sticking or not being as responsive as they should be. (And NO, it was well cared for: I don't bring food or beverage in its vicinity; I've tried to keep it clean.) It's one of the better Pio series remotes: VXX2967.

    I'd prefer to avoid trying to take it apart, unless that's really necessary. Is there some reasonably safe solvent I can dip it in, which would do the job and leave no residue ? I think this remote should be able to have an extended life of good service. And whatever procedure you suggest probably has a relevance for other remotes with such issues.
    When in Las Vegas, don't miss the Pinball Hall of Fame Museum http://www.pinballmuseum.org/ -- with over 150 tables from 6+ decades of this quintessentially American art form.
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  10. ^Seeker47 not that I am Orsetto but have you tried one of those learning type remotes?
    I have one made by Philips that I got from wally a few years back, it has learning mode...it may be possible to get to work thus bypassing having to use a worn remote.
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  11. Member Seeker47's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by Steve(MS) View Post
    ^Seeker47 not that I am Orsetto but have you tried one of those learning type remotes?
    I have one made by Philips that I got from wally a few years back, it has learning mode...it may be possible to get to work thus bypassing having to use a worn remote.
    Thanks for the reply, but I have a good Harmony universal learning remote that was relegated to a shelf a few years ago. I found it frustrating, overly complicated, and generally more trouble (learning curve and usage wise) than it was worth. What a friend of mine likes to call "A solution in search of a problem." I also have a good replacement for the Pio programming (a.k.a. 'Service') Remote, which Orsetto put me onto a few years back. For day to day use, I came to the conclusion that you can't beat the original device remote. In the case of Pioneer DVDRs, they had some deluxe ones that were great -- better than the standard model that came with the recorder. This is one such. It is very likely no longer available. (I may have a an unused spare somewhere . . . .)

    Perhaps it won't turn out to be an apt comparison, but years ago I standardized on a certain model of wireless trackball mouse for my computers. They are very good, except that its batteries don't last all that long, and it has a propensity to get clogged with dust or other gunk. I learned to pop out the trackball, and then all you need is a fingernail or small brush to clean it inside, at three strategic points. Easy peasy. Then you are back in business. I think this remote probably can be restored, and that is a skill I would like to acquire, also as it may relate to other remotes.
    When in Las Vegas, don't miss the Pinball Hall of Fame Museum http://www.pinballmuseum.org/ -- with over 150 tables from 6+ decades of this quintessentially American art form.
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  12. Sorry for delay in replying, seeker47: I've been traveling all week and just got back.

    The VXX2967 and similar variants were the most ergonomic, intuitive remotes Pioneer ever designed for their DVD/HDD recorders. They were the earliest design, supplied with the DVR-510, 520 and 530 series, featuring large grey buttons of various shapes on a silver background with easily read black labels.

    Unfortunately, as you have discovered, they decay over time and become less responsive. I'm not quite sure where the problem lies when it eventually develops. It isn't that the keys wear out, because they still do work: its just that the recorder becomes less and less responsive to them. Almost as if the batteries were going dead, but replacing the batteries doesn't help. And not all the keys are afflicted: some continue to be the same as before.

    I've tried opening the VXX2967 (etc), and cleaning the membrane/contacts with a solvent. Also tried various other fixes recommended by remote control experts, to no avail. It sounds strange, but the defect seems to be more on the recorder end of things than the remote: as if the recorder decides it "doesn't like" the VXX2967 signals anymore. I came to this conclusion after cycling thru all of my brand new, backup VXX2967 remotes: the recorder(s) that were unresponsive to a worn VXX2967 were equally unresponsive to a "new old stock" VXX2967.

    Yet when I tried the (awful sliding door) newer VXX3129 that came with the DVR-640, all my Pioneers responded to it smartly. The dreadful VXX3288 from the DVR-550/560 also works "like new" with all Pio recorders of any vintage: very snappy and quick response. Its a complete mystery to me why my 540, 550 and 560 developed an aversion to the much nicer VXX2967 version of remote. But they did, so I've forced myself to get used to the newer remotes. Neither is ideal, but they beat dealing with the sluggish response or non-response to the older remote.

    The VXX3129 (and its ilk) were an ergonomic disaster. Small, generic white buttons on a white background, with half the buttons hidden under a sliding door that constantly gets in your way. It was so hated in 2006 that Pioneer replaced it the very next year with the VXX3288 (etc). This had no sliding door, thankfully, but is horrible in other ways. It is too skinny to hold comfortably, the buttons are microscopically small, arranged in no sensible order, and black on a black background (why the hell Pioneer thought black-on-black would be any more legible than white-on-white is anyone's guess). The buttons are so small and closely spaced that its impossible to operate the thing by touch, as you could with the old VXX2967. Also, the search/slowmo signals from the VXX3288 make the recorder behave differently than it does when using the same buttons on the VXX2967 (searching backwards and forwards to find an edit point is very annoying with the newer remotes).

    If you're having sudden weird problems with the good old VXX2967, I'm afraid the only alternative is the crummy newer VXX3288. You could try opening your VXX2967 remote, and cleaning the greasy film off the membrane sheet and contacts. But if that doesn't help, get a VXX3288.
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  13. Member Seeker47's Avatar
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    Thanks very much for your reply, orsetto. I will try cleaning it. Also will check with a barely used spare 2967, to see if this is of a piece with the phenomenon you reported. I'll be a bit surprised if the fault lies outside of the remote itself. (Largely due to the almost-sticking response of certain keys.) In a different location, I have a different (?) issue with another of these remotes and its Pio DVDR: the fluorescent display on that unit has grown rather dim (which I expect is not fixable), and the remote there has become extremely line-of-sight and needing a fairly close proximity to the DVDR in order to work, which is annoying to say the least. No indication of flakey button response there though -- at least not yet.

    In this and other threads, I know you have essentially dismissed the whole category of VCR | DVDR combo units. It wasn't that this was ever impossible to build, just that given market forces and price points there were never sufficient incentives for anyone to do this right -- even though at one time the public had demonstrated an interest in combo units. Coincidentally, I just stumbled across this

    http://www.ebay.com/itm/182591370479

    which I don't recall ever seeing before. If anyone could ever have gotten such units right, one might reasonably think Pioneer, back in its heyday, but I doubt you will be telling us this was the exception to the rule.
    When in Las Vegas, don't miss the Pinball Hall of Fame Museum http://www.pinballmuseum.org/ -- with over 150 tables from 6+ decades of this quintessentially American art form.
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  14. Originally Posted by Seeker47 View Post
    Coincidentally, I just stumbled across this

    http://www.ebay.com/itm/182591370479

    which I don't recall ever seeing before. If anyone could ever have gotten such units right, one might reasonably think Pioneer, back in its heyday, but I doubt you will be telling us this was the exception to the rule.
    The Pioneer DVD/VHS combos were rather poor. They only sold them for a year or two, 2003-2005 more or less. AFAIK, they weren't "true" Pioneers but were subcontracted completely to an outside discount mfr. They lack traditional Pioneer features like MN speeds and several interface points, the remote is atypical, also there were reports that unfinalized discs were incompatible with "real" Pioneers.

    Not all DVD/VHS combos were terrible, but many were, and some of the more interesting ones suffered from manufacturing flaws that render them inoperable today. A good example of this was the JVC DRM-V5, which mated a decent VCR with good hifi tracking to an excellent burner with RAM capability and an exceptionally good encoder chip/filter system. It worked a treat when matched to the right tapes, but the noise reduction was too strong for many tapes and the IRE was set a bit too light. The dealbreaker was build quality: JVC afflicted it with a faulty power supply design that was further aggravated by being caught up in the wave of counterfeit Chinese capacitors that swept thru consumer electronics companies in the early 2000s. The unit is quite nice when it works, but the power supply tends to die unexpectedly even after rebuilding. I had ten DRM-V5 combos running 24/7 for a few months back in 2005/2006, before I discovered the joys of Pioneer DVD/HDD.

    The most sophisticated and desirable DVD/VHS combo had to be the Panasonic DMR-EH75v, the only model sold in USA with built-in 80GB hard drive. IOW, imagine a Pioneer DVR-550 with a VCR grafted onto it. Unfortunately it didn't sell well initially, so of course became a pricey cult object shortly after being discontinued. A very great advantage of Panasonic recorders was incredible burner durability: nearly twice the longevity of Pioneer or other competitors. This is offset by their crippling dependency on the long-obsolete "TV Guide On Screen" operating system, which makes using them today a bit of a hassle (the TVGOS signal has been MIA for several years, in its absence the recorders can get balky, much like the notorious Pioneer DVR-533).

    BTW, when I was away last week I passed thru the Las Olas district in Florida, where I found the twin sister of the Silverball pinball museum located in Asbury Park, NJ. Strangely, they had exactly the same machine lineup as the Silverball in Asbury: we were scratching our heads over the logic in that. Sadly, 60-70% of the machines were in disrepair and unplayable- unlike the Asbury Silverball, the one in Las Olas is basically a bar for millennials to get trashed in, with the pinball games a secondary attraction. The Asbury location is more of a family-friendly pinbal shrine: 95% of the games work at any given moment, its brighter, and there's no bar to attract abusive players.
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  15. Member Seeker47's Avatar
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    Even way back, I never thought it likely that combo units were apt to be the preferred solution, so I never took that route. A large quantity of tape to digital conversions that I should have done years ago has taken on a renewed urgency -- before the tapes deteriorate any further -- so I really should get cracking on that soon. It will be on editing chains from Mitsu --> Pio, with the help of whatever auxiliary pieces may be needed, including copy busters, Proc Amp, and color correction. Besides the tapes, I'm hoping all the equipment holds up. Also hoping that a fair number of tapes can be skipped outright, because alternative sources have come to light in the interim, as we have discussed elsewhere.

    I'm wondering if the place you referred to from your trip could be the same venue I just read about ? See post #345 from this pretty amazing and lengthy thread, the second of the two locations mentioned in the post:

    https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/nics-american-pinball-tour-aka-im-coming-to-fi...r-games/page/7

    The first place mentioned was sad but unsurprising; a follow-up post a couple of pages later in the thread revealed that it was all being sold off. The description of the other venue however seemed to differ quite a bit as to the reported condition of the games, so I hope it was not the same one you visited ? In all fairness it must be noted that these machines have an abundance of small or moving parts, many of which take a real beating in the normal course of things. Their being maintenance-intensive is a given. At the Vegas PHOF (from my sig), it had been the case that at any given time around 50 % of the games were in serious need of work. (I even once discovered the head of a socket tool that had broken off inside the back part of a "WhoDunnit" there.) But that still left a hundred or more pins you could play well to reasonably well. On my last couple trips there, the under-repair or in-need-of-repair figure had dropped to more like 30 %. Nevertheless, staff resources are hard-pressed to keep up. But our venue options seem to have expanded noticeably, over the last few years. Even here on the Left Coast. I haven't been to the Bay Area in years, or back to L.A. for several years, but I hear good things about the Pacific Pinball Museum, Pins & Needles, Bar 82 (the last two of which opened around L.A. after I had left). There is a nice private club in Santa Ana that has occasional events. And although they (so far) only have a few events per year, the Museum of Pinball in Banning, CA.

    ( http://www.museumofpinball.org/about-us/ on the way to Palm Springs)

    is really something to see, with over 800 games ! It's exhausting, and there's never enough time ! Some truly rare titles too, including from manufacturers around the world that I'd barely heard of -- and I'm deeply into this stuff. Nowhere near all of those will be working if you go there, but they tend to have a small army of techs making the rounds, addressing the problems. Chances of fave titles getting fixed in the near term are fairly good.
    Last edited by Seeker47; 26th May 2017 at 12:20. Reason: post # correction
    When in Las Vegas, don't miss the Pinball Hall of Fame Museum http://www.pinballmuseum.org/ -- with over 150 tables from 6+ decades of this quintessentially American art form.
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  16. Thanks for the link! Yep, that was the place: sometimes its hard to keep track of what neighborhoods are technically known as. Floridians just think of that millennial bar district as "Las Olas" but I suppose the official designation is Delray Beach. Anyway the place was a disappointing trainwreck: clientele was 100% blotto college kids treating the machines like crap, spilling beer all over the place, totally harshing whatever buzz a pinball enthusiast might have got when they first walked in. There is no excuse for 70% of the games to be out of commission, other than the owners just giving up and deciding the income from liquor sales was far more important. The patrons are generally too stoned to notice or care the machines don't work: the prime entertainment in the place seems to be the guys binge drinking while their girlfriends shriek like brain damaged hyenas.

    A shame, really, because environmentally it takes all the good points of the original Silverball in Asbury and improves them further: the space is laid out better, and the whole vibe was clearly meant to signal an "adult" variation of the more "family-kiddie" Asbury emphasis. Unfortunately the ten year old kids in Asbury have more class and respect for the games than the "young adults" in Delray Beach, so the whole enterprise falls flat. Asbury and Delray have exactly (and I do mean exactly) the same collection of games, which clearly speaks of obsessive effort on the owners part, but Asbury is simply much better run day-to-day: never more than 5% of the games are down at any given visit. Maybe they have an exclusive genius tech chained under the boardwalk that Delray has no access to, but I doubt it. More likely its the difference in customer base: Asbury patrons are awed by the place, Delray customers can't wait to trash it between bar crawls.

    Anyway... we should get back to discussing dvd recorders before someone chides us.
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  17. Member Seeker47's Avatar
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    Hi orsetto,

    Yes, I guess we should try to take the off-topic items to PM or elsewhere.

    Originally Posted by orsetto
    I had ten DRM-V5 combos running 24/7 for a few months back in 2005/2006, before I discovered the joys of Pioneer DVD/HDD.
    Wow ! I hope that was in more of a work context, with remuneration occurring -- not to mention equipment depreciation / tax writeoffs.

    Back to the VXX2967. This is where I'm very glad that I'm well stocked with computer tools, including jeweler-type screwdrivers and long needle-nose pliers. I took the cover the remote off and zotzed the innards with compressed air. Not sure yet if that accomplished anything. I expected to find a thin transparent membrane, with some film or gunk accumulated on it . . . but that is not what I saw. (See photo I will try to attach here.) There was nothing much to clean above the grey rubber, just a very tiny speck of dust, which the canned air dispatched. Should I have (carefully) pried that rubber key-section off and cleaned underneath it ? I am reluctant to proceed any further without some detailed guidance. Have put it back together, in the meantime.

    Also in the meantime, I have acquired a VXX3288, as per your recommendation, and I take your point. Forget about touch operation, in the dark ! Besides the small button size, I almost need a magnifying glass to consult that remote. But it worked fine, with both of the Pio DVDRs I previously mentioned. Then, I located a spare, unused VXX2967 I had purchased some years back. (Had I a bit more foresight, I would have bought a couple more, whilst they were still available.) Trying with this seems to be at variance with your theory. Neither Pio DVDR had any problem with it. Not with the off-axis / line-of-sight issue with the second unit, nor per the key response or recognition issues I had described for the primary unit. Therefore, at least based on the current evidence, I'm going to conclude that the fault lay essentially with the well-used 2967 remote I inspected. If it can be restored to good functioning, that is something I'd like to do. Click image for larger version

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    When in Las Vegas, don't miss the Pinball Hall of Fame Museum http://www.pinballmuseum.org/ -- with over 150 tables from 6+ decades of this quintessentially American art form.
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    The conductive material behind the button(s) is probably worn out.

    Here's a link to electric paint which explains why and how to fix it: https://www.bareconductive.com/make/fix-a-tv-remote-with-electric-paint/ . Look up 'electric paint' on Amazon for a U.S. source.

    I haven't tried it myself, but learned about electric paint (they used to sell it at Radio Shack) because I've swapped out buttons on remotes when one goes bad. Note that only the little black (sometimes white) dot is what makes the connection. The rest of the rubber is just to keep the buttons in place.

    To test before you buy electric paint, swap out the good remote's membrane with the bad one, just to check if it's the membrane or the circuit board is bad (very rare, but I've had it happen).

    Edit: The website recommends cleaning the board with rubbing alcohol. Be sure there's no perfumes or additives (just water and alcohol) and get the highest percentage you can (91 percent is the highest I can find locally). Special circuit board cleaner would be even better, but not necessary. Be sure to let the board completely before touching it or reassembling, especially if you use a high percentage alcohol as it can soften the coating on the board (leaves fingerprints).
    Last edited by lingyi; 28th May 2017 at 16:56.
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    Originally Posted by handyguy View Post
    Panasonic doesn't make them anymore but I wish they did. Why don't you get one with a HD? Try Walmart, seach for Magnavox.
    i use 3 Panasonic recorders, they must be at least 7 years old, work as good now as the day i bought them
    1 of the Panasonic DIGA DVD Recorder DMR-ES10
    2 of the Panasonic DMRE50S
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  20. Originally Posted by Seeker47 View Post
    Should I have (carefully) pried that rubber key-section off and cleaned underneath it ? I am reluctant to proceed any further without some detailed guidance. Have put it back together, in the meantime.
    Yes, if there is a physical malfunction you will find it underneath the rubber key sheet. In my experience opening a dozen of this era Pioneer remote, there is a slimy/greasy film between the bottom of the key sheet and the contact board beneath it. Whether this is a required conductive assist that decays over time, or a byproduct of the key sheet outgassing or decaying, I haven't been able to determine. I've tried cleaning it off per lingyi's suggestion, and it didn't seem to hurt anything, but cleaning it off didn't help either: the unresponsive keys were not improved in any way. I never tried to reconstruct the contact materials with electric paint, because in every failing VXX2967 remote I've opened the contact stripes seem completely intact. But perhaps looks are deceiving and lingyi's advice to try the paint might work even if there doesn't appear to be any visible damage? If you do try this, seeker47, please report back and let us know the result.

    As to your backup, like-new VXX2967 working fine vs mine suffering the same issues as my well-worn remotes, I can offer no explanation. Perhaps all my Pio remotes of that vintage have decayed simultaneously, whether in use or storage. Or all my recorders suffered some sort of IR receiver anomaly (power surge?) that render them less responsive. Its very odd, and very frustrating, that only the desirable VXX2967 seems to develop issues (while the terrible later remotes are bulletproof).

    My VXX2967 problems are always the same: the fwd/reverse speed search buttons go first, then the chapter skip buttons become less and less responsive, then finally the CM Back & Skip buttons (of course, all my primaries). I've noticed that with the newer remotes, there is a subtle but distinct difference in how those same buttons interact with the editing screens: the functionality changes (i.e. in the scene delete system, if a video reaches the end of its timeline it will ignore the reverse search button until you use the reverse slow button to back a few frames away from the end). Something is definitely altered in the signals from the newer remotes, because the recorders (old and new) do tell them apart and respond accordingly. Maybe the newer signal is stronger somehow, and the button contacts less subject to failure.
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  21. Member Seeker47's Avatar
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    There would appear to be much worthy of investigation here, per the last few posts.

    I would note that although the product lingyi mentioned -- and I had never heard of this before, although very possibly you had -- is a U.K. product, it does have U.S. resellers listed. That should make it easier to try out.

    As far as which were the more problematic keys on my 2967 in question, they seem to differ from what you were reporting. I think the scanning FFWD & F/Rev keys do have their issues, but I was mostly noticing the sticking or lack of proper response from several basic Alpha keys, as when I would enter or edit Titles info. It got to be frustrating, having to press a letter key or the Space key several times, before it would register. I'll need to check on how that compares with any problems of the (less frequently used) downstairs remote -- which could even be a Pio 640 remote, I don't recall offhand.

    [EDIT: the current setup downstairs is indeed a 640 + a VXX2932. I don't know if that was the remote that came with it, originally. As mentioned earlier, the issues I've noticed there are primarily ones where overly much proximity and line-of-sight seem to be required, for remote operation. Not much in the way of editing or making discs has been going on there for awhile, so I would have to comment later on any other key response issues. The spare 2967 and the VXX3288 had no immediately obvious problems there. So far, I'm not seeing any signs where I can fault the DVDRs themselves -- at least on these two.]
    Last edited by Seeker47; 31st May 2017 at 01:38.
    When in Las Vegas, don't miss the Pinball Hall of Fame Museum http://www.pinballmuseum.org/ -- with over 150 tables from 6+ decades of this quintessentially American art form.
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  22. Member Seeker47's Avatar
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    A misc. update of sorts: apparently the VXX 2967 supply is not entirely kaput. I recently purchased what was claimed to be a NOS unit. Some doubts due to the seller being in China, but the cost amounted to a small gamble, in order to pick up another spare. The seller had an extensive and very good feedback record. It has been shipped, so we shall see.

    Another thing I seem to be noticing is a general downward drift in the pricing on some of the used Pio 640 / 460 / 560 units being sold on eBay. Sure, that one guy in Canada is still asking $999. for the ones he sells, but that has become the striking exception. I'm seeing plenty of these sold at under $200., supposedly in good condition, when $400. + was more the norm not so long ago. Of course, you never know for sure what kind of mileage is on the HDD or the burner -- that's your risk. But, some of these must have been bought by people who seldom used them, or who found the whole DVDR thing to be more tech than they were prepared to get involved with. Where that might be the case, it could still be possible for anyone who needed a spare / replacement, or who was in the "Gee, I missed my chance to get one of these" camp to still obtain one, and make a good acquisition at a reasonable price. You'd have to be willing to roll the dice a bit, and to be one of us for whom the DVD is still not considered extinct.
    When in Las Vegas, don't miss the Pinball Hall of Fame Museum http://www.pinballmuseum.org/ -- with over 150 tables from 6+ decades of this quintessentially American art form.
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