video capture problems - HV20 camcorder is controlled but no video capture

[chebowitz]

I hook up my Canon HV20 miniDV digital camcorder via 4pin-6pin firewire to the IEEE 1394 port of my new Gateway desktop (AMD Phenom 9750 QuadCore Processor, 2.4 Ghz, running Vista Home Premium 64 bit SP2, ATI Radeon HD 3200 Graphics/ATI Radeon HD4650, and TV Tuner card). I recorded a new tape in standard definition "DV wide" (not HDV). The HV20 is recognized by the computer as an imaging device. Using either Windows Movie Maker (WMM) or Adobe Premier Elements 8 (PE8), I can control the camcorder, but nothing is captured; nothing shows up in the preview window either. I've tried it with 2 new different firewire cables... still doesn't work. It DOES work just fine when using my (different) 4pin-4pin firewire to my laptop (i.e., a different compuer) which is also running Vista Home Premium 64 bit SP2; the laptop doesn't have PE8, just WMM; laptop doesn't have a tv tuner card either. So this tells me it's not the camcorder. I've tried starting the camcorder playback first, and then launched WMM; this paused the camcorder and I did see the the frozen video image in the preview window just before the camcorder was paused, but upon starting the capturing process, it didn't work. The only thing I HAVEN'T done was to try to capture another device onto this computer (i.e., the Gateway) via 1394 firewire simply because I don't have another device but, since the camcorder is being controlled by the computer, I'm surmizing the firewire port on the computer is working (that, and the fact that I did get an image on the preview screen as previously stated). I've tried using a popular freeware program called HDVSplit, but that doesn't work either, but that may be because I'm playing DV and not HDV. I've done every possible iteration of camcorder playback setup settings, all to no avail. Perhaps there's a way I can test if the computer's firewire port is working even though I don't have another device? IS IT POSSIBLE THE TV TUNER CARD IS CREATING A PROBLEM? Any help or insight would be greatly appreciated. Thank you in advance.

[edDV]

I hook up my Canon HV20 miniDV digital camcorder via 4pin-6pin firewire to the IEEE 1394 port of my new Gateway desktop (AMD Phenom 9750 QuadCore Processor, 2.4 Ghz, running Vista Home Premium 64 bit SP2, ATI Radeon HD 3200 Graphics/ATI Radeon HD4650, and TV Tuner card). I recorded a new tape in standard definition "DV wide" (not HDV). The HV20 is recognized by the computer as an imaging device. Using either Windows Movie Maker (WMM) or Adobe Premier Elements 8 (PE8), I can control the camcorder, but nothing is captured; nothing shows up in the preview window either.

The HV20/30/40 have separate setings for recording format and playback format. You access these menus with the function switch in CAM or PLAY settings. The playback settings have two levels of settings. Follow this thread, then ask here again if you have further questions.
https://forum.videohelp.com/threads/315155-Can-no-longer-capture-HDV-from-Canon-H20?hig...ight=HV20+menu

In your case the current menu selection probably forces HDV mode. Try this

The DV/HDV setting is in the Play menu, Play Out Setup 1. Choices are:

A (automatic)
HDV
DV

A or DV should allow DV format playback.

Next setting is Play/Out Setup2, then DV Output. Choices are:

DV (DV Locked) ... this forces an HDV to DV downscale
HDV/DV ... If this setting doesn't work, try DV (Locked).

[edDV]

I've tried using a popular freeware program called HDVSplit, but that doesn't work either, but that may be because I'm playing DV and not HDV. I've done every possible iteration of camcorder playback setup settings, all to no avail. Perhaps there's a way I can test if the computer's firewire port is working even though I don't have another device? IS IT POSSIBLE THE TV TUNER CARD IS CREATING A PROBLEM? Any help or insight would be greatly appreciated. Thank you in advance.

To separate WMM and Adobe issues, use WinDV for DV format capture and HDVsplit for HDV format capture. These work on every one of my Vista/Win7 machines (4 total).

The combination that is problematic is HDVSplit to XP.

I usually use WinDV for all DV capture because Premiere Pro and Vegas Pro menus offer complicated settings that must be changed for DV vs. HDV. I leave those in HDV mode but still use HDVsplit for simple captures.

I doubt the TV tuner is causing any issues with the IEEE-1394 port. It is possible other programes are asserting comtrol of the IEEE-1394 port so close Elements and WMM when using WinDV. That said, I can run WinDV, Vegas and Premiere simultaneously with no problem except when Premiere or Vegas are using the port for timeline monitoring.

[edDV]

Some report problems with HDV/DV port detection unless the camera is in play when connected. I haven't had this problem with the HV20 on the PC or Mac. Sometimes I need to power cycle the HV20 to get connection.

[chebowitz]

edDV: Thanks for your feedback. I just tried WinDV... no luck. I'm familiar with playback settings 1 and 2 in the HV20 play menu and how you need to make the settings in the camcorder BEFORE hooking up the firewire to the camera. The Gateway computer recognizes the camcorder correctly. It's just a problem with the new Gateway; WMM can control the camcorder i.e., when using the controls for play, pause rewind, etc. in WMM, the camcorder responds correctly. It just doesn't capture the video. As previously mentioned, another computer with same operating system captures the camcorder perfectly that's why I thought the TV video card may be a problem since the other computer (a laptop) doesn't have a TV Tuner card in it. Very frustrating.

[edDV]

Hmm,
DV transfer and device control are separate processes that share the IEEE-1394 port. So something is malfunctioning in DirectShow for DV stream detection.

Does the camcorder show the "DV OUT" icon when the cam is remotely set to play? Mine alternates "HDV/DV" in stop with "DV OUT" when in play.

Does WinDV see the HV20 as "Microsoft DV camera and VCR"?

Just hooked mine up (forced DV mode) to Win7, Vista and and Mac OSX machines and it connected immediately to each. It is playing an HDV tape out as DV.

If you suspect the tuner, just pull it out. I have tuners (ATI and Hauppauge) in the Win7 and Vista machines I just tested. Both are under control of MCE. I see no interference from MCE running in the background with any of the editing or DV capture programs.

[aedipuss]

when using windv try unchecking the box between config and capture. that will turn camera control off. then play a tape, and click capture after it starts. see if it works that way or if the video is displayed in windv preview.

[chebowitz]

edDV: Thanks again for your feedback, see comments below.

aedipuss: I tried your suggestion... no luck, but thanks for your feedback.

Does the camcorder show the "DV OUT" icon when the cam is remotely set to play? Mine alternates "HDV/DV" in stop with "DV OUT" when in play.

Mine does the exact same thing as yours.

Does WinDV see the HV20 as "Microsoft DV camera and VCR"?

Yes

Just hooked mine up (forced DV mode) to Win7, Vista and and Mac OSX machines and it connected immediately to each. It is playing an HDV tape out as DV.

I too have mine hooked up in "forced DV" mode. Vista sees the connection immediately as well.

If you suspect the tuner, just pull it out.

I've since disabled the driver to my TV tuner card, still not capturing.

So something is malfunctioning in DirectShow for DV stream detection.

Please tell me more about this. Is there a way to troubleshoot DirectShow? Is there a way to download the most current version of it for my operating system (Vista Home premium SP2, as updated by Microsoft auto update)

[aedipuss]

try johnny malaria's capture software. it's called enosoft dv processor or something similar. there is a free version for personal use.

[chebowitz]

try johnny malaria's capture software. it's called enosoft dv processor or something similar. there is a free version for personal use.

aedipuss: wow... it works. Thanks very much. It's a bit temperamental, and not perfect, but it works. So what is this software doing that WMM or PE8 is not?

[aedipuss]

you'd have to ask the author to be sure - johnny malaria, he pops in every now and then.

just a guess, but it uses it's own version of the quartz.dll which contains the DV codec.

[edDV]

you'd have to ask the author to be sure - johnny malaria, he pops in every now and then.

just a guess, but it uses it's own version of the quartz.dll which contains the DV codec.

Just to be clear, a DV transfer over IEEE-1394 is a streamed data transfer to a DV-AVI file. A DV codec is only needed to preview the stream transfer and later to play the file. If your DirectShow DV codec is corrupt, you may still be collecting the stream to the file. You can test that with player or editor with an internal DV codec or by playing the file on a separate machine with a functional codec.

[chebowitz]

edDV and aedipuss: Thanks for the insight and all your help. I'm doing my best to understand some of the nuances of your suggestions.

I am not collecting the stream to the file when the preview is black. What I find interesting is this ENSOFT capture software that aedipuss suggested (thanks again) worked when the other's failed. It appears ENSOFT was originally developed to capture live video, so that may have something to do with why... I really don't know... I'm certainly not a tech guru like you all are so please excuse my limitations and likely inept descriptions.

I'd really like to do this all within PE8 or even WMM. Right now, using ENSOFT, I capture (albeit temperamental) and then grab the file in PE8 and edit from there.

Capturing with ENSOFT via Type 1 AVI is fine, but there's an occassional blip which I think reflects dropped frames. Capturing via Type 2 AVI - using the same source video - has no blips (even though there are dropped frames too) BUT the audio is out of sync from the video. I think that is due to the makeshift way I need to capture the video; I need to start the camcorder with the capture/processor button panel on pause then, once I see the video in the software's preview screen, I hit RUN and I start to capturing (process)*. I think the audio/video out of sync issue is due to this manual capture (the audio is ahead of the video). I think Type 2 AVI separates the audio from the video or at least "sets the stage" for this to be done easily in PE8. Since Type 1 AVI doesn't separate the audio track explains why there's no A/V sync issue BUT I have to deal with blips .... AARRGGHH.

Somehow, someway, I'll figure out the issue why PE8 or WMM is not capturing on this computer and I'll be okay. In the interim, I'll forge ahead with ENSOFT so at least I can do some work.

* I know ENSOFT should not require this method i.e., it should just be a simple click on the play button and every captures automatically, but unfortunately, that's not happening. I did go into the submenus to try to troubleshoot this but no luck. I'm trying to avoid troubleshooting too many things... too many A.D.D. branches makes for a crazy chebowitz (LOL).

[edDV]

You should PM "JohnnyMalaria" and bring his attention to this thread. He has the DirectShow expertise.

[JohnnyMalaria]

I got the PM

The blank video + transport control is very often due to small utility programs running in the background most notably from Pinnacle, Nero and Roxio. Removing these has resolved the issue for many people.

As edDV mentions earlier, the capture and transport control are handled separately. Windows only allows one program to access the video side of things at any given time but multiple programs can control the camcorder.

For our software, it uses standard DirectShow functions/libraries for basic capture. Frankly, I've never really understood why other DirectShow-based capture apps fall down where our software doesn't. They all use the same basic code.

Not sure if this helps.