Help the beginner time ... VHS > TBC > ADVC300 > PC

[Tafflad]

Converting VHS to DV AVI .... used VHS > TBC > ADVC300 > PC
Using Sony Vegas for capture.

I would like to try & improve the end result before I create the DVD’s ......... and ideally hope someone will give me a few pointers on what to adjust.
I have tried HSL, Colour Balance etc. ... but don’t seem to be able to improve the end result.

Colours are weak, except that hard reds have significant colour bleed, which I am told is typical and caused by Chromatic weakness within VHS signal.

Also some of the whites seem to alternate between white and a pale blue cast. (look at buildings, which were white)
I have put a short DIVX compressed version on:
http://www.esnips.com/doc/8bb1278c-e0a3-49c7-939d-bf197f7b82ad/test2-compressed
or http://tinyurl.com/yk8pu6v
Sorry about annoying twitter add first.

Can download or play.
(although it seems to convert to a Flash movie)
The full AVI & AC3 files there as well in same folder

It shows all 3 problems, I would appreciate any help ... it’s the process I want to learn, not just to get this clip fixed.

BTW – I didn’t take this, it was by a Professional Video company.

[guns1inger]

Vegas has a few good filters, especially the colour correction tools, but it is really designed to work with decent quality source, not restoration work. The two tools best placed for restoration work are virtualdub and avisynth. Both have a huge range of specialist plugins, and both should be in your restoration toolkit.

For a beginner, virtualdub is probably the best place to start. It has a GUI interface and is easily controlled and previewed. There are also plenty of tutorials and posts in the restoration forum on how to use it and get the best from it. Avisynth is a script based frame server with even better filters than virtualdub, however it has a steep learning curve as it has no GUI or command-line interface. Instead you program it in a text editor like notepad. You can also use a dedicated editor such as AvsP.

[Tafflad]

Any particular filters you reccomend that I should stsrt with on VirtualDub ? ............ the choice is wide.

I did try 'Flaxen VHS' butcould not figure out what to set, same for 'Temporal Cleaner'

any tips welcomed. (if you have any lkinks to tips please let me know) I'll try search of this forum again.

[redwudz]

Two I use a lot are 'Gradation Curves' and 'ColorMill2'. Gradation curves let you adjust contrast and brightness balance and is good for low contrast videos. ColorMill has a bunch of filters under one GUI. With both programs, just experiment till you get some improvement. 'Color Equalizer' is another one that can sometimes clean up a color bleed.

You are probably already aware that there are quite a few VD and AVISynth filters. One handy site for them is: http://www.thedeemon.com/VirtualDubFilters/

One of the best noise filters out there, IMO, is Neat Video, but it's expensive.

I also often save out the audio as a WAV and process that in Audacity to clean if up a little, then add it back in.

[Tafflad]

After I have finished the work in Vegas ... what should I render it as to import into Virtualdub, do I use windows .avi ?
If I were renderring for creating DVD'a I would use Mpeg2 but not point in compressing before work is finshed

Have been using Windows AVI but when I want to take it back into Vegas the AVI format is then RGB .. is this best way to do this ?

I have heard people metion frameserve is this something I should be doing (no knowledge of this)

[sphinx99]

Outside of a couple of plug-ins to deal with color balance issues (basically, the same color adjustment tools you see in any decent video editor) I have not seen any plug-ins outside of NR that offer much for VHS captures. Color bleeds, luma streaking and echos, etc. - To date, I don't think there is a tool to effectively deal with these kinds of issues except in a painstaking frame-by-frame way.

[Tafflad]

" plug-ins outside of NR " ?? ......
is this a specific plugin you are referring to ?

also is there any recommended sequence for adjustments ..
Luminance, Chrominance
Brightness, Contrast, Saturation, Hue, Sharpness
I'm guessing guys who know what they are doing have a work flow sequence they use each time ... any tips?

[jagabo]

I can't download from that site. I recommend you use a file transfer service like:

http://www.mediafire.com/
http://www.megaupload.com/
http://www.rapidshare.com/

And provide a bit of your DV AVI.

It needs more but here's a start. Levels pulled down by 16, I and Q (VHS filter) shifted up by 4, right by 6. Before and after:

[Tafflad]

I have created an account on Mediafire and uploaded a 14 sec clip there :

http://www.mediafire.com/?ynnbotkh1nz
or http://tinyurl.com/ylncgq2

A smaller 4sec cut of this is on:

http://www.mediafire.com/?ikdgijzndzw or
http://tinyurl.com/ykdpxwa



The difference you have made looks good, please have a go at the clips .. what I would like to do is understand what you have done and why ... I'm keen to learn.

In your post you said "Levels pulled down by 16, I and Q (VHS filter) shifted up by 4, right by 6."

I am guessing that the I and Q parts are as I have set in VHS filter ... but unsure of rest .. this is view of filter settings:

appreciate the help you are giving.

[danno78]

Insert level filter.

"Levels pulled down by 16,

[jagabo]

The I/Q offsets you show are correct. 6 may have been too much of a horizontal shift. Use other shots to verify -- look for sharp edged vertical or horizontal bars of color. You won't get colors to line up perfectly because chroma is encoded at lower resolution than luma.

I had levels set as danno78 shows except I moved the top end down by 16 too (0 to 240 on the lower bar) -- to keep the bright reds from blowing out. That really should be done in AviSynth while the video is in YUV: ColorYUV(off_y=-16).

[Tafflad]

is there something else you have done ? .... your pic had red sash with sharp edge ... mine is still blurred ...
The VHS filter settings are as shown as above ? .... why the difference ? I have set the Levels as advised

[jagabo]

Oh, sorry, I had the horizontal shift set as positive 6 (uncheck the Neg. box).

The equivalent to what I did above in AviSynth is:

ColorYUV(off_y=-16)
ChromaShift(C=4, L=-4)

A little adjustment to the V channel might help too:

ColorYUV(off_y=-16, cont_v=-40)
ChromaShift(C=4, L=-4)

[Tafflad]

I have no experince at all on AVISYNTH ... could you advise how to do this via VirtualDub if that is possible ?

How do you know what to change for I & Q values, is there a way to tell, or just trial & error.

Also read a JohnMeyer post on using CNR to kill Chromatic noise, is that worth adding ? using CNr with settings of:
Y 15.98% wide 75%
U 100% wide 100%
V 31.75% wide 100%

[2Bdecided]

The strange white balance (where the white becomes blue/green, in the original camera) is very difficult to fix. At some parts in the clip, what I've done vastly improves it - but the fault isn't constant, so at others it seems to do very little!

This is 2 generation VHS at least - the chroma lined up 2 generations ago, but even that may not have been the master.

IMO the TBC isn't working that well (plenty of flagging - e.g. severely non-vertical windows!) - but that may be because of the multi-generations, and some other TBC-like device used during one of those generations' copying. Or it might be that a different TBC would look radically different - difficult to say.

Anyway, here's my a "cleaned" version...
http://www.mediafire.com/?ynzii3ifonn
...with altered levels, colour, denoised, etc.

It was created using a modified version of this AVIsynth script...
http://forum.doom9.org/showthread.php?t=136373

...like this...

avisource("Test Clip TBC 001.avi")

# Increase the contrast a little
levels(10,1.0,250,0,255,coring=false)

# Increase the saturation a little
tweak(sat=1.2,coring=false)

# DV = BottomFieldFirst
assumebff() 

# Make progressive
Bob(0.0,1.0) # better bobbers are available ;)

# Fix (S-)VHS chroma shift
Vshift=4 # 2 lines per bobbed-field per tape generation (PAL); original=2; copy=4 etc
Hshift=6 # guess - trial-and-error!
mergechroma(last.crop(0,Vshift,-Hshift,0).addborders(Hshift,0,0,Vshift))

converttorgb(interlaced=false,matrix="PC.601")

rgbadjust(1,1,1.05,1,0,0,-13,0)

# Need YV12 for mc_spuds and aWarpSharp
# (Consider doubling vertical resolution to prevent loss here if you really care?)
# ( - I don't, so I haven't tried it)
converttoyv12(interlaced=false,matrix="PC.601")

# Store the noisy version
a=last 

# Denoise with mc_spuds
mc_spuds(chro=true)

# warp horrible fuzzy chroma to match nice sharp luma
c=aWarpSharp(depth=20.0, thresh=0.75, blurlevel=2, cm=1)

# sharpen the very soft picture!
sharpen(0.75,0.5)

# put a little of the original noise back in to avoid "plastic" look
overlay(a,opacity=0.4) # 0.5 keeps 50% noise, 0.25 keeps 25% noise etc

# completely replace chroma with nice version
mergechroma(c)

# add light grain to try to fake a little extra resolution
grainfactory3(g1str=4, g2str=4, g3str=4)
addgrainc(0,2)

# go back to a nicer colour space before re-interlacing
# (not worth it for DVD etc, but good if you want to store lossless YUV and maybe take frame grabs)
converttoyuy2(interlaced=false)

# uncomment to see progressive version before re-interlacing:
#return last

#re-interlace
assumebff()
separatefields()
selectevery(4,0,3)
weave()

# crop out junk
crop(8,8,-8,-12).AddBorders(8,8,8,12)

What's really important about your captured clip, and my processed version of it, is that you should take a look at it on a real TV - e.g. use DV out > ADVC > S-video > CRT TV. You have typical vintage camcorder footage: levels are wrong, colours are desaturated, but bright colours are way outside the allowed RGB palette. This doesn't matter on a traditional TV: they use YUV, not RGB, and it displays just fine (though rather bright!). However, displayed as RGB on a PC you get areas of flat clipped colour - and because of the way PCs clip RGB, it's not necessarily the correct colour either (i.e. its different from what's in the file).

Lowering the saturation and levels is one solution, but the result still isn't true to the original. There are other solutions suggested by BBC R&D, they're not implemented in VirtualDUB or AVIsynth. I've actually increased the levels and saturation in my version - take a look on a real TV, and it'll look great - but it looks horrible on a PC IMO.

Cheers,
David.

[jagabo]

How do you know what to change for I & Q values, is there a way to tell, or just trial & error.

You can look at the original image and see that the colors are shifted to the left and down. It's easiest to determine how much they've shifted if you have a sharp colored vertical edge (to see horizontal shifts) or a horizontal edge (to see vertical shifts). You can zoom in and count the pixels or just estimate and use trial and error.

[Tafflad]

downloaded the clip .... wow ... that is a good improvement..
impressed with your improvement on the sample.

I would like to run that on the whole tape ...

Would I apply the VD changes suggested above first with VHS & level filters .. then run AVISYNTH script?


The tape was a 'purchased' tape after the Sandhurst parade, so would be at least 2nd generation .... I then captured as detailed.

[Tafflad]

How do you know what to change for I & Q values, is there a way to tell, or just trial & error.

You can look at the original image and see that the colors are shifted to the left and down. It's easiest to determine how much they've shifted if you have a sharp colored vertical edge (to see horizontal shifts) or a horizontal edge (to see vertical shifts). You can zoom in and count the pixels or just estimate and use trial and error.

Thanks a bundle .... learnt so much as a result of this forum.

[Tafflad]

Did you run the VHS filter & Levels filter first then the script ?

I have never used AVISynth ... anybody know of a good learners guide ? .........

[dvd3500]

The advc300 has tons of settings to improve the video in realtime. IN my experience I have yet to find a comobination of software filters that can fix video as well as the advc300.

There re, of course, cases where you need filters but for denoising I find the ADVC300 more than sufficient.

[jagabo]

I suspect you would get better results if you disabled all the noise filters in your VHS deck and ADVC300 and used Neat Video in VirtualDub. Neat Video is very slow though.

[Tafflad]

The advc300 has tons of settings to improve the video in realtime. IN my experience I have yet to find a comobination of software filters that can fix video as well as the advc300.

There re, of course, cases where you need filters but for denoising I find the ADVC300 more than sufficient.

Keen to know more .. if we take the Red Sash issue above ... fixed very well using teh VD filter, what would you change on the ADVC300 to achieve this ?

Unfortuntaly the ADVC300 has one of worst manuals around, it simply lists it's functions with hardly any guide as to what they are for or how to adjust.

[Tafflad]

I suspect you would get better results if you disabled all the noise filters in your VHS deck and ADVC300 and used Neat Video in VirtualDub. Neat Video is very slow though.

Do you know how I would do that ... the only option I can find that comes close to this is AI function On or Off
"AI function, recording and playback are performed in the state which achieves optimum picture quality in light of the charcteristics of a tape. Picture sharpness cannot be adjusted when AI is set to On"

[jagabo]

I don't know your deck. Try turning off the AI function.

By the way, your DV AVI had illegal values in the chroma channels. That's one reason why the reds are blown out. And why I used "cont_v=-40" in ColorYUV().

[2Bdecided]

By the way, your DV AVI had illegal values in the chroma channels.

I'd bet money that's what's on the tape (probably there straight from the original camera), and the ADVC just captured it faithfully. Hence my comment about viewing on a CRT.

@Tafflad,

I just used the AVIsynth script I posted - takes your file in, spits the cleaned up version - it includes levels adjustments and chroma shift - you don't need to do those in VDub too.

AVIsynth has a steep learning curve - you can just install AVIsynth, save the text I posted as test.avs, drop it into VirtualDub and you'll get the result - BUT you'll need all the filters that the script is calling first. It's painful to find them all, as they're not in one place. See whatever VirtualDub complains about (e.g. no function called mc_spuds) and google for it, and save the .avsi or .dll into your AVIsynth/plugins folder. Sounds easy, but then you'll find that mc_spuds is calling ten other functions which all need finding too. Google might find a list of them to speed things up. (I'm not trying to keep information from you here - I installed it all a couple of years ago for restoring VHS and can't remember all the steps it involved).

I don't think the level changes I made will be appropriate for your whole tape, so you'll probably have to play around with those.

I agree about not using the noise reduction on the ADVC300.

Cheers,
David.

[lordsmurf]

2Bd, you could always RAR up your AVI Synth folder and share it.

[Tafflad]

2Bd, you could always RAR up your AVI Synth folder and share it.

that would be a great idea .... any chance ?


On the comment about not using noise reduction on AVC300 ... I don't think there is any, manul does not give nay option on this.
Only possible I could think of was AI function on the VHS deck.



I started on the AVI Synth ... running baby steps exercise at:
http://avisynth.org/mediawiki/Getting_started

Followed that OK .. but when I tried opening your script in VD .. first thing it does is tell me ..."couldn't locate a decompressor for fourcc dvsd"

Assume this is one of the call items you mention ?


If anybody has a good link to an AVISYTH learning site let me know.

[2Bdecided]

Followed that OK .. but when I tried opening your script in VD .. first thing it does is tell me ..."couldn't locate a decompressor for fourcc dvsd"

Try the Cedocida DV codec, from here:
http://neuron2.net/misc/cedocida020.zip

Cheers,
David.

[jagabo]

You could also use DirectShowSource() instead of AviSource(). There are two basic video systems in Windows: DirectShow and VFW (Video For Windows -- an old, no longer updated, deprecated, but still supported, interface). Windows includes a DirectShow DV decoder. AviSource() requires VFW decoders.

[Tafflad]

Tried DirectShowSource and the Cedocida DV codec ... both allow me to get further, at least now it stops at point where it is calling for plugins ... David would you be able to share yout AVSynth folder as suggetsed >