Is there a video tuner for computers that has a high channel range??

[True Colors]

I am trying to find a tuner device for my PC(either internal card or external USB style). I have looked at hauppage and ATI products. So far the stuff that I have found only has a range of 125 channels or so.

Here is an example of what I am talking about:

http://www.hauppauge.com/site/products/data_hvr1950.html

Are there some other computer products out there with a tuner that can capture more than 125 channels? I want something that can capture 800 channels.

Thanks,

TC

[olyteddy]

I want something that can capture 800 channels

And what would be the source of these 800 channels? If it's Cable TV you'll need their 'Secret Set Top Decoder Box', satellite their receiver, etc.

[edDV]

I am trying to find a tuner device for my PC(either internal card or external USB style). I have looked at hauppage and ATI products. So far the stuff that I have found only has a range of 125 channels or so.

Here is an example of what I am talking about:

http://www.hauppauge.com/site/products/data_hvr1950.html

Are there some other computer products out there with a tuner that can capture more than 125 channels? I want something that can capture 800 channels.

Thanks,

TC

There are two ways to answer this so I will start with the simple explanation. Cable 125 = the top RF channel for an 800MHz cable system. Analog channels usually stop around 60 to 75 where digital QAM is mostly used above.

Each QAM digital channel can contain up to ten SD subchannels or ~3 HD channels so when counting all you can have up 1250 SD QAM sub-channels contained in 125 RF channels. QAM channel numbers can be listed as real or virtual. A real channel has two parts, the RF channel+subchannel number (e.g 80-3 or 112-8 ) and the virtual identifier (example KABC-HD, KABC Weather, etc.). A QAM tuner usually uses the real number but you may see it listed as the virtual identifier.

You may be refering to the virtual channel numbers that appear on a cable box. Normally two digits indicate an analog channel and three digits point to digital sub-channels. This numbering system applies only to the cable box, is completely arbitrary and has nothing to do with the RF+subchannel number.

So the hard part comes when RF channels above 125 are used. Channels 126 to 135 technically can be used for QAM but would be invisable to your tuner. Bottom line, these channels are not generally available to external tuners. Very few cable systems have bandwidths above 800 MHz but the technology allows up to 1GHz (RF Channel 158 ).

Cable RF frequencies
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cable_television_frequencies

[True Colors]

I have cable service. My HD channels are all in the 300 to 800 range. I want to be able to record those in HD quality with a computer tuner. There are also some standard def channels in the 200 to 600 range which I would like to record.

It seems to me like if I purchase a tuner device that only goes up to channel 125 then I will not be able to record a standard def broadcast on channel 215. Nor will I be able to record a high def broadcast on channel 550.

Is there a product that I can purchase which will allow me to do these things? Any insights?

Thanks,

TC

[edDV]

I have cable service. My HD channels are all in the 300 to 800 range. I want to be able to record those in HD quality with a computer tuner. There are also some standard def channels in the 200 to 600 range which I would like to record.

It seems to me like if I purchase a tuner device that only goes up to channel 125 then I will not be able to record a standard def broadcast on channel 215. Nor will I be able to record a high def broadcast on channel 550.

Is there a product that I can purchase which will allow me to do these things? Any insights?

Thanks,

TC

You are refering to the virtual numbers you see on your cable box which have nothing to do with the way you would tune from a Hauppage tuner. The QAM tuners are limited to the unencryted sub-channels provided by the cable company. This includes the local broadcasters and whatever else your cable company sends without encrtyption.

Most if not all of the channels you want to record are encrypted QAM. You need either the cable company's DVR or a cable card capable tuner to decrypt those channels. Recording to an external device is totally under the control of the cable company and is a separate issue from watching. While technically possible, the cable companies aren't yet playing nice with Microsoft or others that want to make these channels available over MCE for watching and/or recording.

There are early cablecard tuners out there but there are problems with reliability and the cable companies are dragging their heels providing cable cards.

The story gets more complicated.

[usually_quiet]

Explaining a different way... The higher channels in the cable company's listings are just codes your cable box has been programmed to use to make it easier for subscribers to change channels. All the same HD and SD channel numbers in the cable system would likely be under 125 if you used a QAM tuner on a TV or QAM-capable TV tuner card instead. For example, one of my SD channels is 200 when I use my cable box, but using the QAM tuner on a digital TV, the same channel is found at 13-2.

However, with the exception of local broadcasters, SD and HD digital channels are likely to be encrypted.

There are lots of QAM-capable tuner cards for recording unencrypted digital channels. There are also two methods for recording encrypted channels on a PC. Method 1: Your cable box tunes and an HD capture card (no tuner) allows your PC to record. Method 2: A TV tuner card that takes CableCARD(s) tunes, and your PC records them. The CableCARDs need to be rented from your cable company.

There are a few HD capture devices that might be used with the component video out on your cable box. The HD PVR from Hauppage, is the most popular. Avermedia makes another one, the AVerMedia AVerTV HD DVR.

ATI makes the only CableCARD tuner for sale at present, but more are supposed to come out later this year. They are all going to be on the expensive side.

[Edit] I get beat every time here. I'm a slow typist.

[edDV]

Yes, tuning the cable directly and dubbing the cable box output are different disciplines.

MCE and other PVR software can record from the cable box and control channel selection with IR control.

[True Colors]

I think i get it.

simple version........

Let's say that my cable box shows something on channel 684. In reality, that signal is coming to me on channel 52.2. But my cable converter box assigns a virtual number to it(684) just to make it simpler for the typical user.

If I connect the cable wire from my wall directly to a tuner card on my computer then it will show 52.2 to be 52.2....... NOT 684......... correct?

I am also curious....... how do I know which of my cable channels are encrypted and which ones are not? Are all HD channels encrypted? Are all standard def channels non-encrypted?

Thanks,

TC

[crazythunder]

can anyone answer this..i think it should work.
i plan to buy an ATI-TV Wonder Digital Cable Tuner with cablecard. i will use a 2way splitter. cable from wall ti splitter input. one output to cable set top box, the other to the ati device. the reason i want to do this is to be able to output from the cable box a/v out to my pioneer dvr and capture something different on the pc. thus recording 2 shows at once. the cable card would eliminate the need for the stb,enabling me to watch different channels on my pc,correct? i also plan on throwing in a line amplifier.
i had a hauppage 2250, but apparently the auxillary a/v input does not work...known issue?i had originally planned on using that to record from coax/basic cable while watching different station on svideo input. now i'll be content with the setup i plan if noone see's any issues. thanks

[usually_quiet]

I think i get it.

simple version........

Let's say that my cable box shows something on channel 684. In reality, that signal is coming to me on channel 52.2. But my cable converter box assigns a virtual number to it(684) just to make it simpler for the typical user.

If I connect the cable wire from my wall directly to a tuner card on my computer then it will show 52.2 to be 52.2....... NOT 684......... correct?

I am also curious....... how do I know which of my cable channels are encrypted and which ones are not? Are all HD channels encrypted? Are all standard def channels non-encrypted?

Thanks,

TC

Yes, that's how the virtual channel numbers the cable box uses work.

Assuming you have a good strong signal, the easisest way to tell that a QAM channel is encrypted is to use a digital TV with a QAM tuner. Instead of the video you'd receive for the unencrypted channels. you would see a message on the screen, saying they are "scrambled" or have "low signal strength" etc.

As I said before the only channels that are likely to be unencrypted are your local SD and HD channels, and possibly a few miscellaneous basic cable SD channels. You may have more than that, but you can't count on it. ...and you may have less than that. FCC regulations normally require local full-power stations to be carried in unencrypted, but some exceptions are allowed. So in some cases, subscribers won't have all the digital sub-channels for their local broadcasters available "in the clear", or may only have an SD version of an HD channel available "in the clear".

...and if you do have more than that, it may be a temporary situation. My area is in the process of being transitioned to all-digital and has had lots of unencrypted SD channels for about four months now. ..but others with the same provider have written that once the transition has been completed, most of their unencrypted QAM channels went back to being scrambled.

[usually_quiet]

can anyone answer this..i think it should work.
i plan to buy an ATI-TV Wonder Digital Cable Tuner with cablecard. i will use a 2way splitter. cable from wall ti splitter input. one output to cable set top box, the other to the ati device. the reason i want to do this is to be able to output from the cable box a/v out to my pioneer dvr and capture something different on the pc. thus recording 2 shows at once. the cable card would eliminate the need for the stb,enabling me to watch different channels on my pc,correct? i also plan on throwing in a line amplifier.
i had a hauppage 2250, but apparently the auxillary a/v input does not work...known issue?i had originally planned on using that to record from coax/basic cable while watching different station on svideo input. now i'll be content with the setup i plan if noone see's any issues. thanks

CableCARD tuners don't entirely replace an STB, but you are mostly right. You may have a few channels that are unavailable to you because they are essentially being provided "on demand", requiring 2-way communication features that have not yet been added to CableCARDs. Reliability of the tuners is another issue. In general, PC tuners and PVR software are a little less reliable than STBs and cableco DVRs orTiVos.

...and yes the 2250's auxillary a/v input has some known issues. Some have been addressed. I would check the forum at http://www.shspvr.com to see if there is a fix for the problems you are experiencing.

[crazythunder]

can anyone answer this..i think it should work.
i plan to buy an ATI-TV Wonder Digital Cable Tuner with cablecard. i will use a 2way splitter. cable from wall ti splitter input. one output to cable set top box, the other to the ati device. the reason i want to do this is to be able to output from the cable box a/v out to my pioneer dvr and capture something different on the pc. thus recording 2 shows at once. the cable card would eliminate the need for the stb,enabling me to watch different channels on my pc,correct? i also plan on throwing in a line amplifier.
i had a hauppage 2250, but apparently the auxillary a/v input does not work...known issue?i had originally planned on using that to record from coax/basic cable while watching different station on svideo input. now i'll be content with the setup i plan if noone see's any issues. thanks

CableCARD tuners don't entirely replace an STB, but you are mostly right. You may have a few channels that are unavailable to you because they are essentially being provided "on demand", requiring 2-way communication features that have not yet been added to CableCARDs. Reliability of the tuners is another issue. In general, PC tuners and PVR software are a little less reliable than STBs and cableco DVRs orTiVos.

...and yes the 2250's auxillary a/v input has some known issues. Some have been addressed. I would check the forum at http://www.shspvr.com to see if there is a fix for the problems you are experiencing.

thanks. i knew i wouldn't get on demand. but i guess this looks like the best setup to record digital broadcast stations.
as for the 2250, i just got an rma#. hopefully getting a refund, or credit.

[edDV]

I think i get it.

If I connect the cable wire from my wall directly to a tuner card on my computer then it will show 52.2 to be 52.2....... NOT 684......... correct?

TC

Yes, the QAM tuner will show the RF sub-channel but Hauppauge complicates things further by assigning their own unrelated virtual number. They use 2000 series numbers for some reason. You need to look into channel properties to see the RF channel number.

The unencrypted QAM channels here are the the local broadcasters including most but not all local subchannels, local access, educ and govt, shopping channels, CSPAN 1 and 2, pay for view previews, and for the most part regional Fox and Comcast regional sports networks (including HD) unless under blackout rules.

In other cities I've noticed more "digital cable" channels unencrypted. Each local cable company sets encryption.

Also, the cable companies use the three digit numbers on cable boxes so they can group channels for marketing reasons without affecting the real RF sub-channel, or they can re-organize RF sub-channels without affecting what the cable box user sees. If you have a QAM tuner, you will see channels disappear unless you rescan the tuner periodically. Cable boxes are automatically reprogrammed when these changes occur.

[edDV]

can anyone answer this..i think it should work.
i plan to buy an ATI-TV Wonder Digital Cable Tuner with cablecard. i will use a 2way splitter. cable from wall ti splitter input. one output to cable set top box, the other to the ati device. the reason i want to do this is to be able to output from the cable box a/v out to my pioneer dvr and capture something different on the pc. thus recording 2 shows at once. the cable card would eliminate the need for the stb,enabling me to watch different channels on my pc,correct? i also plan on throwing in a line amplifier.
i had a hauppage 2250, but apparently the auxillary a/v input does not work...known issue?i had originally planned on using that to record from coax/basic cable while watching different station on svideo input. now i'll be content with the setup i plan if noone see's any issues. thanks

It all depends if the cable card is available locally and if it works. Check your local AVS forum for your cable system and ask other users how well it works.

[crazythunder]

after about 5 minutes of research, i learned how crazy drm is implemented. cannot play dvd's on standalone player. count me out. this blows.drm,css all suck. i'm the typical non-pirating consumer who has to pay the price. i simply want to record more than one show at a time-beyond basic cable,burn them, and view at my leisure. but i can't.

can anyone answer this..i think it should work.
i plan to buy an ATI-TV Wonder Digital Cable Tuner with cablecard. i will use a 2way splitter. cable from wall ti splitter input. one output to cable set top box, the other to the ati device. the reason i want to do this is to be able to output from the cable box a/v out to my pioneer dvr and capture something different on the pc. thus recording 2 shows at once. the cable card would eliminate the need for the stb,enabling me to watch different channels on my pc,correct? i also plan on throwing in a line amplifier.
i had a hauppage 2250, but apparently the auxillary a/v input does not work...known issue?i had originally planned on using that to record from coax/basic cable while watching different station on svideo input. now i'll be content with the setup i plan if noone see's any issues. thanks

It all depends if the cable card is available locally and if it works. Check your local AVS forum for your cable system and ask other users how well it works.

[edDV]

So your options are to

-rent a second cable box or
-rent a DVR with dual tuners from the cable company or
-purchase a capture card to record analog and clear QAM or
-rent a second cable box + purchase a device to record from that box

You can see why most people just rent the dual tuner cable DVR.

[usually_quiet]

after about 5 minutes of research, i learned how crazy drm is implemented. cannot play dvd's on standalone player. count me out. this blows.drm,css all suck. i'm the typical non-pirating consumer who has to pay the price. i simply want to record more than one show at a time-beyond basic cable,burn them, and view at my leisure. but i can't.

I don't think the DRM restrictions apply to everything recorded using an ATI-TV Wonder Digital Cable Tuner any more. Cable Labs relaxed DRM restrictions for Windows 7. Anything marked "copy freely" should burn to a DVD without restrictions on which machines can play it back. "Copy once" recordings would be locked down as before, and I would guess that anything marked "Copy never" probably can't be recorded at all. The copy protection applied to programs depends on what you are recording and which cable provider you have. To be fair, DVD recorders, TiVos and Cableco DVRS are affected by copy protection in similar ways. There's a good article about the changes here http://hd.engadget.com/2009/09/24/a-first-hand-look-at-sdv-and-copy-freely-support-in-windows-7-me/

...but ATI-TV Wonder Digital Cable Tuners are still a pain to set up. The cable company will have to make a service call to install CableCARDs, and the technician often won't know how to perform the installation correctly, based on reports I have read about it. You may need more than a cable card installed. Plus, you are on your own when it comes to getting support from your cable provider. ...and ATI's DCTs are about as flakey as other PC tuners and more expensive than most.

[crazythunder]

after about 5 minutes of research, i learned how crazy drm is implemented. cannot play dvd's on standalone player. count me out. this blows.drm,css all suck. i'm the typical non-pirating consumer who has to pay the price. i simply want to record more than one show at a time-beyond basic cable,burn them, and view at my leisure. but i can't.

I don't think the DRM restrictions apply to everything recorded using an ATI-TV Wonder Digital Cable Tuner any more. Cable Labs relaxed DRM restrictions for Windows 7. Anything marked "copy freely" should burn to a DVD without restrictions on which machines can play it back. "Copy once" recordings would be locked down as before, and I would guess that anything marked "Copy never" probably can't be recorded at all. The copy protection applied to programs depends on what you are recording and which cable provider you have. To be fair, DVD recorders, TiVos and Cableco DVRS are affected by copy protection in similar ways. There's a good article about the changes here http://hd.engadget.com/2009/09/24/a-first-hand-look-at-sdv-and-copy-freely-support-in-windows-7-me/

...but ATI-TV Wonder Digital Cable Tuners are still a pain to set up. The cable company will have to make a service call to install CableCARDs, and the technician often won't know how to perform the installation correctly, based on reports I have read about it. You may need more than a cable card installed. Plus, you are on your own when it comes to getting support from your cable provider. ...and ATI's DCTs are about as flakey as other PC tuners and more expensive than most.

i ended up ordering an asus ehd3-100 dual hybrid card. and this http://www.xdimax.com/grex/grex.html, which should satisfy my needs. i totally understand the concept of copy protection, but it's gotten way out of hand. and only hurts the typical consumer. the pirates could care less about copy protection. it seems like the game\movie industry is simply making more and more law abiding citizensturn to the dark side.