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  1. Member
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    What's wrong with this?

  2. Member hech54's Avatar
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  3. I'm a MEGA Super Moderator Baldrick's Avatar
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    Too much information.

  4. Member
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    The max. Bitrate for DVD ac3 is 448

  5. Always Watching guns1inger's Avatar
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    640 kbps AC-3 is only compliant for Bluray, not DVD. Use eacto to re-encode it down to 448 or 384 and you will be OK.
    Read my blog here.

  6. Member
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    What do you mean exactly with: "Too much information."?

  7. Member
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    Originally Posted by chrchr View Post
    What's wrong with this?
    wrong?
    absolutely nothing!
    i encode at 640K a loooong time and Pink Floyd - Pulse(DVD original) came with 640K option too.
    go ahead and test your standalone player, if needed i send a short sample inside video-ts folder, just request ok?

    cheers!
    edit: i forgot: 640k is DVD compliant but the 'standard' is 448 for 5.1 channels.
    don't mistake 'standard' with 'compliance'.
    more cheers!

  8. Always Watching guns1inger's Avatar
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    The maximum allowable bitrate for AC3 audio for DVD compliance is 448 kbps. Some players will play discs with audio encoded at 640 kbps, but that does not make it compliant. 640 kbps is not DVD compliant. The attached image is taken from the official specs at Dolby.com.

    Don't confuse what your player can do with compliance
    Image Attached Thumbnails Click image for larger version

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    Read my blog here.

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    this is the Dolby specifications but not the standalone player capacity.
    some older players(not all) have limitations about bitrate but not the news.
    i'm sure that you don't know the original DVD Pulse - Pink floyd that came with AC3 5.1 448k and ->640k,
    others titles (i repeat, is one afirmative..originals) came with 640k option too!!!

    i'm sure too that you never tested your standalone as you're defending 'papers',
    i have 3 differents standalones and in all 640K works for more than 5 years,
    my dozen friends are using in differents standalones the same copy of my medias and nobody
    -> never complain anything.
    i have hundreds of DVD-video with AC3 640k 5.1 with musics done by myself.
    what i have to do now? trash my working dvds and the copies that i send to friends at 640k as are not inside 'inside what we read'?

    again my offer(and last): as the practical always break the theory, just request and i upload one music in 640k 5.1 inside video-ts folder,
    only need to burn as 'dvd-video'...don't lose the oportunity, i will do the 'hard part', you'll only burn and test.
    you have my word that will work!
    cheers!

  10. Always Watching guns1inger's Avatar
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    The specification has nothing to do with what you player may be able to play. The DVD Video specification states that 5.1 Dolby Digital (AC3) audio must be 384 or 448 kbps for compliance. Players may well play out of spec material. So what. That does not change the specification, or the fact anything authored outside may or may not play in any given player, and is not a compliant DVD Video disc. It is also against specification to mic PAL and NTSC material on the same disc. That does not mean that it cannot be done, or that some players will not play it. But it does mean it is out of spec and not a compliant DVD Video disc within the description of the specification. I would trust Dolby's word over yours one what is DVD compliant.
    Read my blog here.

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    I did some research and raquete is correct that this DVD really did come with 448 Kbps AC3 and 640 Kbps AC3. All I can figure is that this was a non-standard DVD that some players will play without complaint. But everything I've ever heard puts the max AC3 bitrate at 448, so I can only guess that this DVD was created with DVD compliance checking turned off. Some professional authoring programs will let you make non-standard DVDs, so it would seem that this was done here.

  12. Always Watching guns1inger's Avatar
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    I know it has the 640 kbps track, but it also has the 448 because 640 is not playable by a lot of players. The OP was asking what is wrong with 640 kbps AC3 audio. What's wrong is that it isn't DVD compliant within the specification, strictly standards compliant authoring tools won't let you work with it, the resulting disc, if used, is not a compliant DVD Video disc, and it may not play in all players.

    You can do all sorts of crazy, non standard stuff. I have discs with only DTS audio. That is not standards compliant, and these are not compliant DVD Video discs. I have mixed PAL/NTSC discs. Again, not standards compliant, and won't play nicely in all players. I never said it couldn't be done, only that it isn't within the DVD Video specification.
    Read my blog here.

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    GUI_DVD author and any player.
    The next time i will watch a movie i will take care before, if there is a warning: "NO DVD Video specification !!!"

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    Originally Posted by chrchr View Post
    GUI_DVD author and any player.
    The next time i will watch a movie i will take care before, if there is a warning: "NO DVD Video specification !!!"
    great last phrase.
    maybe you don't will find movies but only musicals(shows) at 640k.

    as the question was: "What's wrong with this?"
    the answer still: "nothing'!
    is player dependend and not compliance, standards or specifications.

    guns1inger afirmatives about the topic is only repeating myself and
    telling about 'maximum allowable" is only reading papers without have any dvd at 640k or tests.
    You can do all sorts of crazy
    yes, like Pink Floyd did...and works then, say bye bye to specifications.

    i want to say more:
    for dvd with musics, you can use one with 448, another at 640, another at 512...
    if play 640k, play the others.
    doesn't matter the order or the bitrate, what matters is if your player is capable.
    i recommend EncWAVtoAC3 and GUI_DVDauthor to do you dvd-video with musics.
    i have hundreds, end of the story, the rest is only bla bla
    (no matter what 'papers' tell you,lectures don't give experience,
    nothing new is created following 'specifications'...my word as technician for 35 years)

  15. Rancid User ron spencer's Avatar
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    what is the point of all this...448 or 640 who cares?

    DVD is dead anyway
    'Do I look absolutely divine and regal, and yet at the same time very pretty and rather accessible?' - Queenie

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    I can post in the greek language, if this is better for you !!!
    Is DVD really dead ?
    (My friends do not have BD players...)

  17. Member
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    Raquete,
    You're stuccted (whatever!) with the music...
    It's normal! This is your job...
    Thank you.

    Thank you all people for your replies.

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    Originally Posted by chrchr View Post
    Raquete,
    You're stuccted (whatever!) with the music...
    It's normal! This is your job...
    Thank you.

    Thank you all people for your replies.
    stucceted?
    i don't understood, if you post in portuguese can be better...lol.
    no matter, single joke.

    well, i want to tell you that:
    as 640k 5.1 AC3 work for music, of course work for movies(with conversations, effects,etc).

    music have 'more audio inside' where the whole 6 channels are playing together all the time,
    movies have single converstion and/or effects, sometimes...only sometimes have really 6 channels playing together.
    this is why the test with musics remove the doubts if the standalone player suport or not play at 640k.
    one single and short sample with only one music is the easy and fast way to remove the doubt.
    this is why i recommended a fast test to remove doubt and offer a sample for you.
    i am 'more clever' now chrchr?

    cheers!

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    Originally Posted by raquete View Post
    Originally Posted by chrchr View Post
    Raquete,
    You're stuccted (whatever!) with the music...
    It's normal! This is your job...
    Thank you.

    Thank you all people for your replies.
    stucceted?
    i don't understood, if you post in portuguese can be better...lol.
    no matter, single joke.

    well, i want to tell you that:
    as 640k 5.1 AC3 work for music, of course work for movies(with conversations, effects,etc).

    music have 'more audio inside' where the whole 6 channels are playing together all the time,
    movies have single converstion and/or effects, sometimes...only sometimes have really 6 channels playing together.
    this is why the test with musics remove the doubts if the standalone player suport or not play at 640k.
    one single and short sample with only one music is the easy and fast way to remove the doubt.
    this is why i recommended a fast test to remove doubt and offer a sample for you.
    i am 'more clever' now chrchr?

    cheers!
    i use 640kbps with xvid files and it works fine in my sony stand alone home theatre.......with gr8 sound......i usually convert dts 768 or 156x to 640 kbps ac3 as it doesnt support dts with xvid......

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    Originally Posted by raquete View Post
    as the question was: "What's wrong with this?"
    the answer still: "nothing'!
    is player dependend and not compliance, standards or specifications.
    No, he asked,
    640 ac-3 for DVD, What's wrong with this?
    Whats wrong is it is NOT supported by the dvd specs!!
    Just because some players will play it does not mean ALL players will play it, how hard is that to understand


    yes, like Pink Floyd did...and works then, say bye bye to specifications.
    No, thst why they included the 448 because NOT all standalones will play it because it is NOT within normal dvd specs, i don't want to have to say it again as others already have but it does not seem to be sinking in

    Originally Posted by divyansh View Post
    i use 640kbps with xvid files and it works fine in my sony stand alone home theatre.......with gr8 sound......
    And that has absolutely nothing to do with the OP's original question
    He asked about DVD, not xvid

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    [QUOTE=Noahtuck;1966462]
    Originally Posted by raquete View Post
    as the question was: "What's wrong with this?"
    the answer still: "nothing'!
    is player dependend and not compliance, standards or specifications.
    No, he asked,
    640 ac-3 for DVD, What's wrong with this?
    the answer remains...NOTHING and is the right answer to his question!!!!

    Originally Posted by Noahtuck View Post
    Whats wrong is it is NOT supported by the dvd specs!!
    Just because some players will play it does not mean ALL players will play it, how hard is that to understand
    yes, is really hard to understand because, i you wrote, not all players are capables but as technician for more than 35 years(please, read again, 35 years as technician), i never saw one player that can't play 640k and i'm sure that you never tested your player!

    Originally Posted by Noahtuck View Post
    yes, like Pink Floyd did...and works then, say bye bye to specifications.
    No, thst why they included the 448 because NOT all standalones will play it because it is NOT within normal dvd specs, i don't want to have to say it again as others already have but it does not seem to be sinking in
    of course, i don't know all players and must have some brand/model that can't play 640k but must be VERY OLD MODEL, all news are capables of 640k.
    you don't have anything with 640k(Pink Floyd or other)..right? this is why your posting yours suppositions
    your words came from what you read somewhere and not from experience or test....try yourself doing one 640k sample to your player and learn how to remove your own barriers posting what you never tested.
    (...you're a good school-boy but bad scientist.. lol..the barriers came from what you read and are now in your brain, not in the players)
    re read my old post:
    i have hundreds, end of the story, the rest is only bla bla
    (no matter what 'papers' tell you,lectures don't give experience,
    nothing new is created following 'specifications'...my word as technician for 35 years)
    now you have some argumment against my dozen 640k dvds with audio that play in all standalones that i know and against my experience as technician too?
    against my experience is permissible(but need to proove and not only 'write oppinions') but against the players playing 640k...what you have to tell?
    do you want 640k video_ts sample ? i can send for you too...if your player can't play, just trash it and buy something new!

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    My friend Raquete is right!
    Somebody has to be SURE, before he writes something, ore at least to note: "This is my opinion..!".
    I have tried 5 different players, all of them accept the 640AC-3 in DVD.I guess (by statistics) the success is 100% then.No some (as i always hear), but ALL the players can play it.
    The players i used have DTS decoder and the most are not expensive.I don't know if DTS support has something to do with the MIRACLE, i guess you call it.
    jman98 said that it has to do with the authoring programme.Another software i tried before (different than GUIFDVD) YES failed in muxing.

    "...no matter what 'papers' tell you,lec..."
    This is the way that science goes.Observe and try to understand. And i think Newton is dead, allready...

    PS. I tried also to make DTS1536 for a DVD, but that was too much...!!!

  23. There's nothing wrong with full bitrate DTS audio for use in a DVD. Maybe your max video bitrate was too high so you got underflow errors which resulted in a failed mux.

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    Originally Posted by manono View Post
    There's nothing wrong with full bitrate DTS audio for use in a DVD. Maybe your max video bitrate was too high so you got underflow errors which resulted in a failed mux.
    Ok. manono,

    My ears are widly open...
    I'm listening to your suggestion!
    Last edited by chrchr; 8th Mar 2010 at 12:47. Reason: push

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    Originally Posted by raquete View Post
    as technician for more than 35 years
    Irrelevant. DVD-Video has not been around for 35 years, so you're not a DVD-Video technician. Automotive technician, maybe?

    Originally Posted by raquete View Post
    try yourself doing one 640k sample to your player and learn how to remove your own barriers posting what you never tested.
    Irrelevant. 640kbps AC3 is out of the DVD-Video spec. I have several players/recorders here that would barf. They are strict to the specs, being Japanese models.

    Originally Posted by raquete View Post
    (...you're a good school-boy but bad scientist.. lol..the barriers came from what you read and are now in your brain, not in the players) ....... (no matter what 'papers' tell you,lectures don't give experience, nothing new is created following 'specifications'... my word as technician for 35 years)
    If you really think this, then you're definitely NOT in the audio/video field. Standards exist for good reasons.

    Originally Posted by raquete View Post
    'write oppinions')
    There is only one person writing opinions here, and it's not me, and it's not noahtuck.

    If you want to make non-compliant DVDs for yourself, go for it. But don't pretend it's anything other than a non-compliant disc -- a pure gamble as to whether it can be played on players. I've seen this argument for SVCD-on-DVD, DVB-on-DVD, PAL re-flagged as NTSC, etc. It got old years ago.
    Want my help? Ask here! (not via PM!)
    FAQs: Best Blank DiscsBest TBCsBest VCRs for captureRestore VHS

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    "Irrelevant. DVD-Video has not been around for 35 years, so you're not a DVD-Video technician. Automotive technician, maybe?"
    He said who he is, its your turn now to answer: Who are YOU?

    "Irrelevant. 640kbps AC3 is out of the DVD-Video spec. I have several players/recorders here that would barf. They are strict to the specs, being Japanese models."
    Maybe your japanese models are cheap imetation made in Taiwan.

    "If you really think this, then you're definitely NOT in the audio/video field. Standards exist for good reasons."
    And can be broken the next day by new and fresh minds.

    "There is only one person writing opinions here..."
    I wonder who? YOU?
    If not, then you should !
    Trust me!
    Nobody would blame you, and i wouldn't give a sh*t for your opinion, anyway.
    Trust me again,
    and BELIEVE me!!!

    "There's nothing wrong with full bitrate DTS audio for use in a DVD. Maybe your max video bitrate was too high so you got underflow errors which resulted in a failed mux."
    I'm still waiting for your suggestion!!!
    Last edited by chrchr; 8th Mar 2010 at 17:45. Reason: Editing? NO shit!!!

  27. Rancid User ron spencer's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by chrchr View Post
    "Irrelevant. DVD-Video has not been around for 35 years, so you're not a DVD-Video technician. Automotive technician, maybe?"
    He said who he is, its your turn now to answer: Who are YOU?

    "Irrelevant. 640kbps AC3 is out of the DVD-Video spec. I have several players/recorders here that would barf. They are strict to the specs, being Japanese models."
    Maybe your japanese models are cheap imetation made in Taiwan.

    "If you really think this, then you're definitely NOT in the audio/video field. Standards exist for good reasons."
    And can be broken the next day by new and fresh minds.

    "There is only one person writing opinions here..."
    I wonder who? YOU?

    "There's nothing wrong with full bitrate DTS audio for use in a DVD. Maybe your max video bitrate was too high so you got underflow errors which resulted in a failed mux."
    I'm still waiting for your suggestion!!!
    Irrelevant



    Why p*ss and scream for 192 kbps (640-448) on DVD? You are not going to hear any difference...if you claim you do then stop smoking the drapes.

    Save the bitrate for video...

    BTW, standards CANNOT be broken if a machine is strict....."fresh and new minds"
    'Do I look absolutely divine and regal, and yet at the same time very pretty and rather accessible?' - Queenie

  28. Rancid User ron spencer's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by chrchr;1967079
    Ok. manono,

    My ears are [U
    widly[/U] open...
    I'm listening to your suggestion!

    Get proper audio....then remux
    'Do I look absolutely divine and regal, and yet at the same time very pretty and rather accessible?' - Queenie

  29. Member
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    "You are not going to hear any difference..."

    This is out from the "question"!
    (which has nothing to do with copies, rip, video bitrate, my ears, and anything else you can probably imagine)

    Cheers!!!
    Last edited by chrchr; 8th Mar 2010 at 15:00. Reason: the end

  30. Rancid User ron spencer's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by chrchr View Post
    "You are not going to hear any difference..."

    This is out from the "question"!
    (which has nothing to do with copies, rip, video bitrate, my ears, and anything else you can probably imagine)

    Cheers!!!
    again...your posts are totally irrelevant..try 645 bitrate instead
    'Do I look absolutely divine and regal, and yet at the same time very pretty and rather accessible?' - Queenie




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