60 million Win 7 copies sold!!!

[ocgw]

of course they do, that's how activation works, i'm surprised that an "IT professional" such as yourself doesn't know this </sarcasm>.

and microsoft admitted that they identify, track and database each unique pc that connects for updates, how do you think they keep track of piracy rates?

how do you think they knew that there were more windows installs than there were copies sold? hell, i can't remember if it was balmer or gates who once said something to the effect of: "we know that people are pirating software, if they have to pirate someone's software we'd rather that it be ours".

and the pc does register as a different pc if you change enough hardware, for instance changing a motherboard and a graphics card will most likely require you to reactivate windows, judging by the computer knowledge level you have repeatedly displayed i'm not all that surprised that you were unaware of this.

activation simply works by authorizing a hash a limited amount of times, then when you exceed that they ask you questions and you can activate it some more

I know Windows sees your PC as a different PC when you change hardware, that is what makes it impossible for them to know how many PC's they have downloaded to

And I NEVER said I was an IT professional, I build and repair and program multi-million dollar machinery that may be PC controlled so my education and experience emcompasses all disciplines PC/Hydraulic/Pnematic/Plumbing/pipefitting/DC electrical/AC electrical/electronics/machining/welding

ocgw

peace

[deadrats]

if its any consolation for ya Bill & his wife just gave 10 billion back to the people.

it's kind of a cold comfort, one the one hand bill and melinda, through the gates foundation, have donated tons of money and software (that's the part that's not advertised most of the time, out of a big donation half of it is in free software) over the years, and bill has willed most of his fortune to charities (mostly his own charity), but then you realize that the money he's donated was made from us in the first place, it's kind of like a government that taxes you through the nose, then gives you a "refund" or a "stimulus payment" and makes a big deal out of it.

the fact of the matter is that it was your money to begin with, you worked for it, busted your ass to earn it, they taxed your paycheck through the nose, then they're nice enough to return some of it to you.

here's an idea, how about not taxing us so heavily in the first place and in the case of microsoft, if you really want to be charitable how about selling your software at much more reasonable rates, instead of bill and friends taking our dough and then returning some of it as a charitable contribution (which ends up going to underdeveloped countries anyway), how about just charging me $20 for a copy of your latest and greatest and i'll decide how to donate some of my money, how's that sound?

[deadrats]

For the love of God!! Videohelp.com, kill the "Other" subforum.

you know, there's a rumor going around, but it hasn't been confirmed yet, that if you don't visit the "other" sub-forum, you won't be bothered by it, if it's not to your liking. of course i don't know if anyone's actually been brave enough to test that hypothesis but maybe you can be the pioneer.

in other words, if you don't like it here, don't let the door hit you on the ass on the way out.

[deadrats]

I know Windows sees your PC as a different PC when you change hardware, that is what makes it impossible for them to know how many PC's they have downloaded to

it is not impossible, i just realized how easy it would be for them to do it, all they need to do is track the ip address that connects which will tell them how many unique locations are connecting to their servers (all servers store this info) and then check the MAC address which will tell them how many unique network interface cards connected, you can then break it down to how many unique pc's from a given ip address connected for updates, and you can also compare how many pc's connected verses how many licenses you sold.

And I NEVER said I was an IT professional, I build and repair and program multi-million dollar machinery that may be PC controlled so my education and experience emcompasses all disciplines PC/Hydraulic/Pnematic/Plumbing/pipefitting/DC electrical/AC electrical/electronics/machining/welding

i see, i take it this must be the slow time of the life time for you, seeing as how you have the time in the middle of the day to respond to my posts, i'm currently unemployed, what's your excuse?

[rallynavvie]

it is not impossible, i just realized how easy it would be for them to do it, all they need to do is track the ip address that connects which will tell them how many unique locations are connecting to their servers (all servers store this info) and then check the MAC address which will tell them how many unique network interface cards connected, you can then break it down to how many unique pc's from a given ip address connected for updates, and you can also compare how many pc's connected verses how many licenses you sold.

Please expound on this.

[JohnnyMalaria]

i owned and operated a pest control business for 5 years and in college my electives were in micro and macro economics and business, i would say i have a decent grasp of the basics.

The same pest control business from which you are now unemployed? If so, perhaps your grasp of economics was less than stellar. If not, perhaps trolling on VideoHelp isn't the best way to gain employment.

which is it, are you a windows "programmer" or in pharmaceutical development, make up your mind.

My mind is in a very healthy state of clarity. Go back a read the posts again. Leaping to conclusions seems to be a trait.

also, when you see numerous commercials for "medicines" that are supposed to cure or alleviate relatively minor conditions but the "medicines" have a laundry list of side effects yet the pharmaceutical companies still market them, i would say my assessment of the industry as a whole is pretty spot on.

or how they try to get doctors to prescribe the expensive name brand variants instead of the cheaper generics that are just as effective, i'd say the industry as a whole is a bunch of scum bags.

Well, I agree there are frivolous products (eyelash thickener springs to mind) which take up the time of regulatory agencies and, hence, delay approval of genuinely important drugs. However, the whole reason drugs have to be approved and have to be prescribed by a physician is because they do have side effects. I'm sure that you, as a former owner of a pest control business, understand the importance of monitoring exposure to hazardous chemicals. FWIW, I disapprove of direct-to-consumer marketing of pharmaceuticals and I believe general practitioners are woefully ignorant of the side effect profiles for prescribed drugs.

[ocgw]

it is not impossible, i just realized how easy it would be for them to do it, all they need to do is track the ip address that connects which will tell them how many unique locations are connecting to their servers (all servers store this info) and then check the MAC address which will tell them how many unique network interface cards connected, you can then break it down to how many unique pc's from a given ip address connected for updates, and you can also compare how many pc's connected verses how many licenses you sold.



i see, i take it this must be the slow time of the life time for you, seeing as how you have the time in the middle of the day to respond to my posts, i'm currently unemployed, what's your excuse?

More "pie in the sky" postulations huh?

What is my excuse? lol I checked my e-mail @ a paid break time making ($33.93USD pr. hr. in "straight time") and got a "Reply to thread" notification which I responded to and was subjected to more of your foolishness, and since we are on the subject I'll have you know I already grossed $7,980.48USD this year (not counting the $2,681USD federal income tax return) and don't get me started on the home business earnings LOL

thx for asking rotflmao

Did you find my answer pleasing to your ears me lord, your most royal majesty, the all mighty "used to be" bug killer/ "failed" "programmer"

ps. My new fiance' makes "half again" more than I make

btw business is really booming @ GM since Toyota announced the millions of recalls

ocgw

peace

[greymalkin]

in other words, if you don't like it here, don't let the door hit you...on the way out.

you should heed your own advice. perhaps you could find an island to go live on where "the man" can't keep you down

do tell us about this book you are writing and your hopes of getting it published..I'm sure if someone offered you millions and royalties to publish it you would decline. After all, you only wrote the book once, it would be wrong to accept money for each additional copy as if you wrote it all over again. By your own logic you'd be ripping the money from peoples hands, tearing shoes off babies feet and food out of our childrens mouths. We didn't choose to buy your book, no! you swindled us all! YOU MONSTER!! YOU MONSTER!!!

p.s. - I work for big oil and club baby seals in my free time.

[valvehead]

p.s. - I work for big oil and club baby seals in my free time.

...

[deadrats]

Please expound on this.

you can do it any number of ways, i have 2 invisible ip trackers embedded on my myspace page which allows me to track the ip addy of anyone that visits my account and i used to have an ip tracker hidden within my myspace blog to track the ip addy of those reading my blogs.

here's one way to do it:

http://www.roscripts.com/Track_visitors_with_PHP-62.html

to get the MAC address is a bit harder, you actually have to have the visitor allow you to scan the pc, but if you recall windows update, depending on what windows version you're running, will first prompt you to install an update for windows update to run properly, then it scans your pc to see what updates is missing (that's how they know if you only need the latest security updates versus a service pack plus extras or if you are missing certain drivers), windows update scans your pc, once they are scanning your pc it's trivial to get your MAC addy.

[deadrats]

The same pest control business from which you are now unemployed? If so, perhaps your grasp of economics was less than stellar. If not, perhaps trolling on VideoHelp isn't the best way to gain employment.

actually my pest control business was doing extremely well (at my height i managed to pull in $2500 a day in a 3 hour period and was averaging about $1000 a day for about 12 days out of the month) and my 2 best months were august and september of 2006. that october i went from making 12+ grand a month to doing 2 small jobs for a total of $500 the entire month.

i told myself it was because of the upcoming elections, that people were scared as to which way the country would go but that it would pick up as soon as winter arrived and all the animal control work started coming in.

it never happened, that november i made $600 the entire month, i told myself not to worry, it would pick up after the new year, truth be told i had saved up so much dough that i could take the next year off with no problem, i figured i would ride it out until spring when swarm season normally hits and i would be fine.

spring came and not only did we have several severe rain storms that effectively killed swarm season but the housing market started to tank, severely. truth be told i had been predicting that it would happen for years, i had my real estate license and a blind man could see that the property values were artificially inflated and that a market correction was coming, but i don't think anyone could have seen the economic collapse that occurred.

pest control is really a luxury item and when times are tough the luxuries are the first to go, i was in a state of denial, didn't want to believe that the good times were over and so decided to try and keep the business going, hoping that it would turn around.

next thing i knew i woke up one morning and realized that i only had about $700 left to my name and no way of paying my bills. i ended up taking a number of crappy jobs, perhaps the crappiest being driving a cab at night and dispatching. after doing that for a year i went to work for a couple of really big pest control firms and this past october one of the vp's had a friend of his that had just been laid off from his electricians job, so the prick basically stole my job, he fired me and i found out he had given it to him.

been out of work ever since.

[deadrats]

I checked my e-mail @ a paid break time making ($33.93USD pr. hr. in "straight time")

so you admit that the only time you're "straight" is during paid break time, it takes a very brave man to come out of the closet in such a blatant fashion, i applaud you,

since we're on the subject of how much you make, how much to you earn during your gay hours?

[johns0]

Please cooldown on the comments that people find might offensive or i'll shut down this thread.

[ocgw]

so you admit that the only time you're "straight" is during paid break time, it takes a very brave man to come out of the closet in such a blatant fashion, i applaud you,

since we're on the subject of how much you make, how much to you earn during your gay hours?

omg it is so sad to see a grown man reduced to your level, so sad, so sad

get help

ocgw

peace

[rallynavvie]

you can do it any number of ways, i have 2 invisible ip trackers embedded on my myspace page which allows me to track the ip addy of anyone that visits my account and i used to have an ip tracker hidden within my myspace blog to track the ip addy of those reading my blogs.

here's one way to do it:

http://www.roscripts.com/Track_visitors_with_PHP-62.html

to get the MAC address is a bit harder, you actually have to have the visitor allow you to scan the pc, but if you recall windows update, depending on what windows version you're running, will first prompt you to install an update for windows update to run properly, then it scans your pc to see what updates is missing (that's how they know if you only need the latest security updates versus a service pack plus extras or if you are missing certain drivers), windows update scans your pc, once they are scanning your pc it's trivial to get your MAC addy.

That IP address information is nearly useless since so much of the time it's just going to point to the ISP. Getting specific user information out of an ISP for an IP of theirs usually requires a court order based on a criminal act. Even the music/movie industry has gone away from persecuting end users and instead makes the ISP do the legwork of submitting DMCA notices. If not they can go after the ISP for the big score instead of the end user PR nightmare. As for personal data collection it's the same story. You'd really have to put some hidden form up that tries to intercept a browser's auto-complete feature for some idiot that leaves it enabled and with secure browsing becoming more prevalent (NoScript and the like) that's really the only demographic you'll get information from: idiots. I would be more concerned about the ones I can't identify using these means actually being a threat, but then I'm not so concerned about all that.

The MAC address would need to be scanned locally and transmitted as it pretty much ends at the bridge to the WAN (be it modem, T1, or whatever). An ISP might be able to retrieve it assuming you're not intercepting it with another networking device in front of the modem but again it'd be protected. Even a local scan could be spoofed. Either method I don't think would be viable as a way to determine eligibility/authenticity of a Windows license. Even DRM chips can be spoofed these days so even that wouldn't make for a definite fingerprint of a system. What M$ did was just leave the EULA somewhat open to interpretation so that they could make a judgement call as they saw fit (or as a court sees fit if it came to that).

In the end software companies need to just accept that piracy will exist. I purchase movies, music, and games and I'm annoyed with the DRM afforded the latter (like any StarForce protected game I can't even install on my system for silly reasons). With more and more people online I see username access becoming more prevalent (such as what Steam does).

[deadrats]

do tell us about this book you are writing and your hopes of getting it published..I'm sure if someone offered you millions and royalties to publish it you would decline. After all, you only wrote the book once, it would be wrong to accept money for each additional copy as if you wrote it all over again. By your own logic you'd be ripping the money from peoples hands, tearing shoes off babies feet and food out of our childrens mouths. We didn't choose to buy your book, no! you swindled us all! YOU MONSTER!! YOU MONSTER!!!

the book is called "Jesus was a Communist" and it spends a chapter looking at the fundamentals behind Capitalism, Laissez-faire, Communism, Socialism, and various off shoots of each as well as various theories within each economic system.

I then give an over view of Christianity, Wicca and Satanism (both Theistic and Atheistic) and then i point out how certain economic and religious/philosophical doctrines are not only complimentary but really how one is a logical extension of the other. conversely i show how certain combinations, despite being very prominent in american society, or logistically incompatible.

in so far as compensation for the book, one of the conditions for it's publishing would be that the cost per copy be kept under $10, of course i would accept millions to publish it but those millions would have to come from large sales volumes and not from exorbitant pricing structures (in the chapter where i talk about inflation, i examine how high prices only serve to devalue the dollar which ultimately is bad for everyone, so the pricing of the book must be consistent with what the book espouses).

as for royalties, if i accepted millions to have it published i would not expect royalties, truth be told, i would rather not have a dime up front and simply take a piece of every copy sold, whatever that would add up to. however there would be a limit as i would eventually relinquish the copy right and put the work in the public domain after a number of years (probably after 10).

but i certainly would never charge $50+ per copy, nor would i demand an upfront fee plus royalties plus i want to hold onto all rights to the book so that i could put it in the public domain when i felt like.

[deadrats]

That IP address information is nearly useless since so much of the time it's just going to point to the ISP. Getting specific user information out of an ISP for an IP of theirs usually requires a court order based on a criminal act.

go back and reread what i said, i never said microsoft was getting specific user info, i said that microsoft once claimed that 90% of all windows installs were pirate installs and the proof they used was that more computers running windows had connected to windows update than actual licenses sold.

ocgw said that it was impossible for them to actually know that and i showed how it would be very easy to figure out licenses sold versus update connects, you don't need to know who's connected all you need to know is that it's a unique connection.

The MAC address would need to be scanned locally and transmitted as it pretty much ends at the bridge to the WAN (be it modem, T1, or whatever)..

the MAC address IS scanned locally, windows update tells you it's scanning your pc when you connect to windows update, what's so hard about them running a script, during the scan that gets your MAC addy and adds it to a database to allow them to figure out piracy rates.

again, i didn't say they were identifying each user i said that they could identify each unique pc connection as a way of measuring compliance rates.

[ocgw]

go back and reread what i said, i never said microsoft was getting specific user info, i said that microsoft once claimed that 90% of all windows installs were pirate installs and the proof they used was that more computers running windows had connected to windows update than actual licenses sold.

ocgw said that it was impossible for them to actually know that and i showed how it would be very easy to figure out licenses sold versus update connects, you don't need to know who's connected all you need to know is that it's a unique connection.



the MAC address IS scanned locally, windows update tells you it's scanning your pc when you connect to windows update, what's so hard about them running a script, during the scan that gets your MAC addy and adds it to a database to allow them to figure out piracy rates.

again, i didn't say they were identifying each user i said that they could identify each unique pc connection as a way of measuring compliance rates.

Using your logic every time I do a hardware change and I do an MS update MS would see my PC as a different PC and would show up in their database as dozens of pirate OS installations, so you have shown nothing

Additionally if MS scanned more of your PC than they say they are w/o asking for your permission to gather information they would be in more legal hot water than Sony was when we found out they were installing rootkits on ppl's PC's

What's so hard about MS running a script on your PC you ask? The United States Attorney General silly wabbit

ocgw

peace

[deadrats]

Using your logic every time I do a hardware change and I do an MS update MS would see my PC as a different PC and would show up in their database as dozens of pirate OS installations, so you have shown nothing

no, every time you change your nic the update site will see it as a different pc and register it as pirated install. as a matter of fact, if you change enough of your hardware the OS itself sees it as an attempt at piracy and requires re-activation:

http://www.microsoft.com/windows/windows-vista/quick-start/activation-faq.aspx

• If you acquired Windows Vista via retail purchase (boxed product) or pre-installed on a computer from a local computer vendor, Windows Vista will require re-activation if you, for example:
  • Replace the hard disk drive and memory at the same time.
  • Replace the motherboard.

http://www.microsoft.com/norge/piracy/activation_faq.mspx

Is there rechecking of the activation done after initial activation? Is there any secret data transfer to Microsoft?

The product does check itself from time to time to see if it is activated and if it is still on the same PC on which it was originally activated. At no time whatsoever is information transferred to Microsoft as a result of Product Activation except while the user is actually in the process of activating the product. There absolutely is no "secret" data transfer.

http://www.microsoft.com/norge/piracy/activation_faq.mspx

How does product activation determine tolerance? In other words, how many components of the PC must change before I am required to reactivate?

What are the 10 hardware characteristics used to determine the hardware hash?

The 10 hardware characteristics used to determine the hardware hash are: Display Adapter, SCSI Adapter, IDE Adapter, Network Adapter MAC Address, RAM Amount Range (i.e. 0-64mb, 64-128mb, etc), Processor Type, Processor Serial Number, Hard Drive Device, Hard Drive Volume Serial Number, CD-ROM/CD-RW/DVD-ROM.

Specifically, product activation determines tolerance through a voting mechanism. There are 10 hardware characteristics used in creating the hardware hash. Each characteristic is worth one vote, except the network card which is worth three votes. When thinking of tolerance, it's easiest to think about what has not changed instead of what has changed. When the current hardware hash is compared to the original hardware hash, there must be 7 or more matching points for the two hardware hashes to be considered in tolerance. If the network card is the same, then only 4 additional characteristics must match (because the network card is worth 3, for a total of 7). If the network card is not the same, then a total of 7 characteristics other than the network card must be the same. If the device is a laptop (specifically a dockable device), additional tolerance is allotted and there need be only 4 or more matching points. Therefore, if the device is dockable and the network card is the same, only one other characteristic must be the same for a total vote of 4. If the device is dockable and the network card is not the same, then a total of 4 characteristics other than the network card must be the same.

as you can see just changing the nic and a stick of ram is enough for the OS to see it as a different pc and require activation.

Additionally if MS scanned more of your PC than they say they are w/o asking for your permission to gather information they would be in more legal hot water than Sony was when we found out they were installing rootkits on ppl's PC's

What's so hard about MS running a script on your PC you ask? The United States Attorney General silly wabbit

the problem with is that you have already given microsoft explicit permission, twice, do do just that and implicit permission once:

the first time you consented was when you accepted the eula (read through it, the language allows them to scan your pc), the second time you consented was an implicit consent when you launched the windows update function and the 3rd time was when microsoft explicitly tells you that it will be scanning your pc in order to see what updates are needed and you agree.

it's all 100 percent legal, you gave them permission to do so at least 2 times and microsoft never tells you what parts of your pc are being scanned, all it tells you is that they are scanning your pc.

regardless of it all, with a combination of an ip/MAC addy combo versus how many licenses were sold, one could make a reasonably accurate assessment of piracy rates.

[ocgw]

We only give ms permission to scan our hardware to determine if any updates are needed, if they do anything else they could never keep it secret, and they would be in violation of the own eula

Is there any limit to your stupidity?

are you retarded?

no wonder you can't hold down a job

get back on your meds space cadet

ocgw

peace

[johns0]

I am closing this thread due to complaints and other infractions.