MiniDV or Hard Drive?

[quxote]

Hello all,

I recently had a house fire and my Sony Handicam MiniDV camcorder was lost. So I am looking to replace it soon. I was hoping some of you helpful people can answer some questions for me. I noticed when shopping around that the MiniDV market has almost vanished. I can still find some MiniDV camcorders around but it seems the Hard Drive camcorders are taking over.

Is it time to move to the Hard drive camcorder or try to find a minidv camcorder. Here are some questions I have.

1. I noticed the hard drive camcorders come in different sizes 30gb, 60gb, etc etc. How does this compare to the minidv camcorders. I mean to say...is there a rule of thumb of the recording time of hard drive to minidv. I would like a camcorder that at least can record the same amount of time as the minidv could. So if i get the hard drive cam, do i get atleast a 30gb 60gb etc?

2. When transferring hard drive camcorder movies to the PC is it drag and drop or will i still have to "capture" like i had to do with the minidv in real time.

3. Does Hard drive camcorders use USB or Firewire?

4. What format does hard drive camcorders use, is it saved and a avi or does it use some other format?

5. Which is better in quality? Low light, etc.

It might help to know my budget for a camcorder is about $300. I found some minidv camcorders in the $250 range. Are there comparable hard drive camcorders in that price range?

I am willing to "take the plunge" to a hard drive camcorder, but is there any trade off in doing so. I already realize that i will need to borrow a minidv camcorder from a friend to convert my old miniDV tapes to my PC (yes I lost my PC also).

Speaking of PCs, I will be getting a new one also, is there anything to consider in regards to a hard drive camcorder when buying a new PC. I have been thinking about getting a CyperpowerPC, they seem to have decent prices. I posted on a computer forum and that brand was suggested over getting a Dell.


Thanks a lot
Q

[stedyone]

I recently was forced to replace my Sony MiniDV HDR-PC100 which was new in 2000 with the 120 GB HDD HDR-XR200V.

Don't worry about footage length as the HDDs are 10x the capacity. The Standard Def resolution for regular DVD 720p hold something like 16 hours straight! Then on full HD 1080i the 120 GB HDD will hold something like 15 hours of AVCHD (mpeg 4) footage.

I like my sony model as I can choose to record in both formats if I'm not ready to buy a Blu-ray player or recorder yet.

My camera uses USB 2.0 transfer which is very fast, much faster than real-time encoding with MiniDV! Creating Standard Def DVDs in literally one mouse click and 12 mins later you have a full 60 min DVD!

I spent roughly $600 for my factory refurbished model from Buy.com. The time savings to create a DVD from home video clips is priceless!

I would highly recommend the purchase of a video light and higher capacity batteries. Don't buy any additional memory cards such as SD as it is much more convenient to offload both video and still photos directly from the HDD.

The recorded files are as follows:

1080i full HD: AVCHD (mpeg4)
720p standard DVD: (mpeg2)

These files types can be used directly with most DVD/BluRay writing software. The included Sony Photo and video browser is really good.

In summary, HDD cams are much faster and more convenient to get from footage to DVD than MiniDVD was.

I hope I have been some help.

-stedyone

[quxote]

stedyone,

Thanks for your reply i found it very helpful to know the file transfer is faster on the hard drive camera. But i noticed you said the clips are encoded in mpeg2 and mpeg4, that raises an addtional question, doesnt that make it more difficult to edit.

Eith my only DV camera i always captured using DVIO and loaded the clips into VDub for editing and compression, I dont know if this is still true, but isnt mpeg harder to edit then avi?

However, if the files are already in mpeg2 format, I assume burning DVDs would be quciker because they dont need to be transcoded correct?

[MJA]

stedyone,

Thanks for your reply i found it very helpful to know the file transfer is faster on the hard drive camera. But i noticed you said the clips are encoded in mpeg2 and mpeg4, that raises an addtional question, doesnt that make it more difficult to edit.

Eith my only DV camera i always captured using DVIO and loaded the clips into VDub for editing and compression, I dont know if this is still true, but isnt mpeg harder to edit then avi?

However, if the files are already in mpeg2 format, I assume burning DVDs would be quciker because they dont need to be transcoded correct?

happy Canon HV-20 owner here. never trust a hard drive to store anything.not like MiniDv tapes you can put the tape in a air sealed bag and store it for years . plus like you said it's easy to edit.Canon HV-20/30/40 can shoot in both SD,and HD

http://www.hv20.com/

for new PC.check DELL small business edition .no trial/crap ware on them

http://www.techbargains.com/news_displayItem.cfm/194290

or even better.build your own

[greymalkin]

just to clarify..

480p is DVD, 720p is HD.

[quxote]

MJA,

Thanks for the info...i am leaning towards miniDV because of the ease of editing and the ability to pop in a new tape instead of unloading the hard drive before recording when it fills up. the only thing i hate about minidv is the real time capture of transfering the video.

The problem is its hard to find retailers that still carry minidv camera. Do you know of any?

I also thought about building my own PC but with the fire and my patience i really dont have time to.

[MJA]

MJA,

Thanks for the info...i am leaning towards miniDV because of the ease of editing and the ability to pop in a new tape instead of unloading the hard drive before recording when it fills up. the only thing i hate about minidv is the real time capture of transfering the video.

The problem is its hard to find retailers that still carry minidv camera. Do you know of any?

I also thought about building my own PC but with the fire and my patience i really dont have time to.

I bought mine last year from onecall.com for $499 refurb

or you can get the new HV40 for $699 from amazon.com

http://www.amazon.com/Canon-VIXIA-HV40-Camcorder-Optical/dp/B001OI2Z4Q/ref=sr_1_1?ie=U...4622541&sr=8-1

I know the price is over your budget ,but it's worth it

[Soopafresh]

MiniDV HD camcorders use firewire, AVCHD camcorders use USB. There are exceptions, but this is usually the case.

I have an HV30, works great.

Something in your budget - Sanyo FH1 (well, not exactly in your budget but the cheapest non pocket HD camcoder that's pretty good). Can shoot in 1080p60 which means you can have some great looking slow motion footage if you so desire.

Footage from FH1 http://www.vimeo.com/videos/search:Sanyo+FH1/page:2/sort:newest/format:thumbnail


I'd recommend the HV30, though. $479 http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/used/539289/Canon_2680B001_VIXIA_HV30_HDV_High.html

As far as PCs go, Cyberpower is fine. Get an I5 processor, best choice between price and performance. Bump the RAM up to 4GB and you'll be good.

[zoobie]

they're still selling hi8 so I think you'll be able to find HDV
saw some used HDV cams go on ebay for as little as $150
you'll need a retailer to get any sort of warranty of course
I got an extended 4 year warranty for $117

[quxote]

Soopafresh, thanks for the info and the like. I assume HDV is a miniDV corder that does high def correct?

For the CyperpowerPC i am gonna get the i7-920 and 6 gigs of Corsair dominator RAM and 1 TB hard drive.

Everyone seems to point towards the canon HV series....i assume its a good camera. I'll have to check it out

[MJA]

Soopafresh, thanks for the info and the like. I assume HDV is a miniDV corder that does high def correct?

For the CyperpowerPC i am gonna get the i7-920 and 6 gigs of Corsair dominator RAM and 1 TB hard drive.

Everyone seems to point towards the canon HV series....i assume its a good camera. I'll have to check it out

it shoots in both(not at the same time ) HD and SD.
you can use HDVSplit to capturing from cam to your PC

I don't think winDv workswith any of the HDV cams

[quxote]

so if i shoot in SD is it AVi...what format is HD? capturing HD is not the same process?

Another odd questions does it have a pass through? My Sony would allow me to hook up a vcr and pass thru the camera and capture to the computer.

[Soopafresh]

SD output is DV AVI, HD output is MPEG2 Transport Stream, also called HDV - at least for the HV series . Capturing is basically the same process - different cables and different programs to capture but you'll quickly figure it out.

I'm pretty certain the second answer is yes. I've connected the RGB outputs of my HV30 to a monitor and have gotten live video. The process would be the same. But I suspect once you see the quality of the HDV output you'll want to bypass the feeds into your VCR.

Since you're going to have a peppy PC to edit your footage you'll probably find yourself just shooting everything in HD resolution. In addition, you can resize the HDV to SD dimensions in your editing program and have an image which will be far sharper than having shot SD to begin with.

You can look at the HV30 specs and download the PDF manual

http://www.usa.canon.com/consumer/controller?act=ModelInfoAct&tabact=SupportDetailTabA...nloadDetailAct

Also, there's an entire site devoted to the HV20, HV30, and HV40. If you ever have questions, you'll find an answer.

http://www.hv20.com/

Finally, video footage taken with the HV cameras

http://alturl.com/8vkc

[stedyone]

If you convert the HD footage to SD aren't you transcoding again? The Canon HVxx doesn't record HD in the AVCHD format? I know on my Sony cam if I record in HD (AVCHD) and I want to use the HD footage in a standard DVD I must transcode the AVCHD into SD for DVD in real time using a lot of computer resources.

[aedipuss]

If you convert the HD footage to SD aren't you transcoding again? The Canon HVxx doesn't record HD in the AVCHD format? I know on my Sony cam if I record in HD (AVCHD) and I want to use the HD footage in a standard DVD I must transcode the AVCHD into SD for DVD in real time using a lot of computer resources.

the canon hv20/30/40 can shoot either SD DVavi or HD HDV and if shot in HDV can export SD DVavi. the conversion is done in hardware on the fly during capturing.

HDV is mpeg-2. AVCHD is mpeg-4. the HDV footage is much easier for an editing program to use.

[edDV]

so if i shoot in SD is it AVi...what format is HD? capturing HD is not the same process?

Another odd questions does it have a pass through? My Sony would allow me to hook up a vcr and pass thru the camera and capture to the computer.

For HDV format camcorders (Canon HV**, SonyHC**, JVC, etc.),

* SD format is standard DV format (DV-AVI in Windows or *.dv on Mac).

* HDV format is an MPeg2 transport stream saved as *.m2t.

* You can record HDV to tape and capture to *.m2t or capture in SD DV format with hardware conversion in the camcorder.

* HDV outputs live video streams over IEEE-1394 (Firewire) in either HDV or DV mode.

* Most of these camcorders also output HDMI or analog component in scaled 1920x1080i.

* Most also have SD pass-through, i.e. analog SD composite in to DV stream out. The Canon HV** models lack S-Video in.

Most AVCHD camcorders lack analog to digital pass-though and live digital streaming features. Some have live HDMI or analog component output.

[quxote]

thanks for the suggestions everyone. But after two days of searching i just cant find a refurb or new HDV camera close to my price range, looks like i will prolly be getting a cheaper miviDV camera like the sony DCR-HC52 i had the HC30 before the fire so its still a slight step up. i wanted to get away from sony because they use their own memory cards but i cant seem to find a decent camcorder that is minidv

[zoobie]

so you've been taking stills with a video camera and that's your pre-requisite?
maybe these guys can finish your homework...

[quxote]

no i dont take still with the video camera....but i do use the picture capture in a pinch when i dont have my digital cam. but thanks fo the comment

[MJA]

did u try ebay?

example

Canon VIXIA HV30 *Factory Refurbished* 3 year Warranty



http://cgi.ebay.com/Canon-VIXIA-HV30-Factory-Refurbished-3-year-Warranty_W0QQitemZ1104...item19b996fa63


one more

http://cgi.ebay.com/Canon-VIXIA-HV30-HD-HDV-1080i-Video-Camera-Camcorder_W0QQitemZ3003...item45f0a6ba44

[Soopafresh]

It'll be a pity to have such a fast machine, capable of editing Hi Def HDV footage and be stuck with an SD only camcorder. I understand the limitations of your budget, though. That $220 one on eBay is an amazing price. You'll probably be closer to $300 when the bidding is over, still a great price.

[NightFire]

Definitely eBay is the place to go for good deals. Got a Sony HDR-HC3 for $330 with all the cables and an extra battery. Also with HDV camcorders, mine anyway, you can set it up to send SD DV to the firewire port even if it's HD video. That way you can shoot HD and still have SD video to view/edit and make DVDs. Also it's nice for use with a DVR where I hook it up and make DVDs from HD footage with no extra hassle.