sony kill switch?

[deadrats]

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/technology/news/7054587/The-myth-of-the-Sony-kill-switch.html

For nearly 20 years Sony in Japan has been plagued by the myth of the "Sony Timer" – but is there really a kill-switch that destroys your device just after its warranty runs out? Many Japanese genuinely believe that there is.

Of course, the "Sony Timer" has never been proved and there’s no evidence that it’s anything other than a Japanese urban legend. But things got pretty interesting when it was revealed that a bug in selected E-Series Bravia TVs meant they’d only last 1,200 hours, before refusing to power on or off. This conveniently adds up to about 3 hours watching per day for one year, the exact period of the television’s warranty. Sony issued a software patch to fix the problem.

i know i will be denounced and told to get a tin foil hat, but for years i wondered in certain auto manufactures, particularly american car companies, designed certain parts so that the MTTF (mean time to failure) coincided with the end of the standard warranty, i worked in a car dealership, specifically honda and chevy, and there were certain chevy models that it seems that once the warranty was up major things would go bad, like motor mounts, the check engine light coming on, transmissions would start slipping, engine valves slapping, engine burning oil or over heating, head caskets leaking, on the one hand it sounds absurd and on the other it's not that hard to estimate MTTF, part of me always wondered.

btw, i'm not picking on american cars only, everything i can find indicates that VW's have gone down the crapper as well, after about 60k miles it seems they start getting plagued with all kinds of problems, from inexplicable stalling to electrical problems.

i certainly wouldn't put it past any company in financial trouble, maybe the thinking is that it will lead to increased revenue.

[guns1inger]

Most likely a case of confirmation bias. The same with the idea that the crazies come out on a full moon night. Ask any cop or ER nurse, and most will tell you this is a fact. Do the actual leg work and look at incidents of behaviour/admissions/arrests, and they show that full moon nights look pretty much like any other night. However because there is a perception and expectation that full moon nights are different, these people remember more strongly the cooks and forget that the same cooks (or very similar) appear every other nigh as well.

The same often goes for warranties. People don't talk about the fridge that they replaced after 18 years (as we did just this morning) that has done great service and had only a single service call in all that time. But they do talk about how typical it is that just as the warranty expires, the damn thing breaks. Do the research however, and again, in most cases, the truth is much more mundane. No company with half a brain would provide a warranty that exceeded the likely average lifespan of their product (possibly measured based on MTBF or some other metric). Most items run far longer than their warranty period. This is the primary reason most consumer groups advise that purchasing extended warranties is a bad investment. Most consumer items (excluding the very cheap and cheerful crap) will out last the normal extended warranty periods. Insurance companies wouldn't provide the backing for them if they had to pay out on them very often - bad investment for them).

Working in a service centres puts you in a uniquely biased situation whereby most of the people you see who are memorable are the ones that have issues. The person whose car does not have a problem rarely drops by the service desk to tell you how happy they are with their purchase, and if they do, they aren't ranting and raving about it.

The report you link to is typical, credulous reporting with no real questioning of the basis for the story and no research into the truth. No product is built to last forever. The cheaper the product, the lower the build-quality and consequent longevity. The more reputable the product, the better the overall value. Sometimes things go bad - the Sony batteries are an example of this, as were IBM's HDDs of a few years back. But for the most part, things are not as bad as many people believe, and far batter than this rather poor piece of journalism makes out.

Tinfoil hat ? Not this time.

[yoda313]

My sony 5.1 pre hdmi receiver is still kicking way way after its warranty (whatever it was I couldn't begin to tell you if it was 6 months or a year - i just know I bought it at bestbuy).

My playstation 3 is also still going strong after more than a year - maybe 2 years now.

I have an old sony tape deck that I'm sure still works even though its literally been in the closet collecting dust for several years now. I just can't let myself get rid of it because I'll know as soon as I do I'll regret it. I do still have cassette tapes I may someday want to dub. If and when I do I know its better to use a shelf type component deck than some cheap worn out walkman type portable player.

I have been remarkably well off with my electronics. The only significant failures I can report are two red rings of death with my first xbox 360. HOWEVER it was bought used at gamestop. The first one was after the store warranty for used items. The second time it happened I just gave up (I had sent my first unit in and got it back working for a long time after that session). Though now what I did after the second failure a few months ago was I just bought another used one at gamestop again. This time I do have the instore warranty for a year to replace it if it needs it.

But two things on that - I already knew about the rrod for the 360 before I bought it so it wasn't out of the blue when it finally happened. And also I had not bought mine store new so I was more susceptible to that kind of issue. So I knew going in it might not have the longest shelflife.

But I can't live without my xbox 360 so its something I'm willing to put up with. (though at the moment I'm playing assassins creed 2 and batman arkham asylum on the ps3 more at the moment - but I have infamous as a ps3 exclusive and it is also my main bluray player - though I do have a bluray rom on my pc hooked up to my hdtv so I do have an alternative - but obviously its more convenient to play blurays through a ps3 than through the pc.)

[Xylob the Destroyer]

planned obsolesence has been a part of the American auto industry for a long time. why the hell should you sell somebody a car that will last for 20+ years when you can get them to buy another from you every 7 to 10? this business model is what eventually drove customers away and is the reason why the govt' owns half of the 'big 3' now...
as for the VWs, yes - they pretty much implementedt he same business model with their A3/mark 3 cars in the 90s. beginning with the 93 models their cars = shit. anything before that is "bullet proof" if you take good care of it, 93 and later doesn't matter how much proper maintenance you provide the piece of shit is gonna die on you.

[deadrats]

planned obsolesence has been a part of the American auto industry for a long time. why the hell should you sell somebody a car that will last for 20+ years when you can get them to buy another from you every 7 to 10? this business model is what eventually drove customers away and is the reason why the govt' owns half of the 'big 3' now...

it's funny you should say that because the honda/chevy dealership i used to work in (i worked in the shop) use to also have it's own body shop and i remember the big wigs from chevy and honda used to stop in about once a month to chat with the dealership owners/managers. i remember overhearing a conversation between jeff (one of the owners) and a honda exec about an accord that had been in a serious accident and was totalled, the conversation went something like this:

jeff: tell me something, with all the technology we have can't you guys make a car that doesn't break down or get all messed up in an accident?

honda exec: what are we crazy? why would we do that? if we did that then no one would ever need to buy a new car and we'd be out of business or at least we would be much smaller.

if you ever actually worked on cars, either in a mechanics shop or auto body shop, you would see that policy in action as you worked on the cars, i personally believe all auto manufacturers follow this business plan, it's just a question of degree, with some manufactures adhering to it as if it was a religion.

as for the VWs, yes - they pretty much implementedt he same business model with their A3/mark 3 cars in the 90s. beginning with the 93 models their cars = shit. anything before that is "bullet proof" if you take good care of it, 93 and later doesn't matter how much proper maintenance you provide the piece of shit is gonna die on you.

you know, now that i think about it you're absolutely right about that cut off date, i used to own a 16v scirocco and the damn thing was like old faithful, so was a 16v rabbit that i drove around in, yet the v-dub's that immediately precede the introduction of the vr6 engine, as well as anything after it, seem to last trouble free up to 60k miles and then all hell breaks loose.

[olyteddy]

don't get me started about the 'Warranty Switch'...I've seen it all too often...

[Xylob the Destroyer]

planned obsolesence has been a part of the American auto industry for a long time. why the hell should you sell somebody a car that will last for 20+ years when you can get them to buy another from you every 7 to 10? this business model is what eventually drove customers away and is the reason why the govt' owns half of the 'big 3' now...

it's funny you should say that because the honda/chevy dealership i used to work in (i worked in the shop) use to also have it's own body shop and i remember the big wigs from chevy and honda used to stop in about once a month to chat with the dealership owners/managers. i remember overhearing a conversation between jeff (one of the owners) and a honda exec about an accord that had been in a serious accident and was totalled, the conversation went something like this:

jeff: tell me something, with all the technology we have can't you guys make a car that doesn't break down or get all messed up in an accident?

honda exec: what are we crazy? why would we do that? if we did that then no one would ever need to buy a new car and we'd be out of business or at least we would be much smaller.

if you ever actually worked on cars, either in a mechanics shop or auto body shop, you would see that policy in action as you worked on the cars, i personally believe all auto manufacturers follow this business plan, it's just a question of degree, with some manufactures adhering to it as if it was a religion.

as for the VWs, yes - they pretty much implementedt he same business model with their A3/mark 3 cars in the 90s. beginning with the 93 models their cars = shit. anything before that is "bullet proof" if you take good care of it, 93 and later doesn't matter how much proper maintenance you provide the piece of shit is gonna die on you.

you know, now that i think about it you're absolutely right about that cut off date, i used to own a 16v scirocco and the damn thing was like old faithful, so was a 16v rabbit that i drove around in, yet the v-dub's that immediately precede the introduction of the vr6 engine, as well as anything after it, seem to last trouble free up to 60k miles and then all hell breaks loose.

my 92 16v GLI is still kicking ass. Of course it's heavily modified and I baby it, but...
I had an 87 GTi that had been badly neglected by previous owners and I still got another 60K out of it without doing anything but filing the tank and changing the oil about once a year(!). Primary fuel pump right outside the tank was broken and leaked 24/7, actually sprayed gas on the ground when the ignition was ON - I got 35 MGP in that condition. I sold it to my cousin for a song and he replaced the fuel pump, got 47 MPG! He'd still have it, but didn't bother to change the oil like I did and ran it dry, engine seized...
Ditto on an 85 Golf that had 200K+ when I got it. I drove that thing for 3 years. I miss that car every day. I would still have it but it needed brakes, complete suspension, tires, and an engine overhaul wouldn't have hurt. I sold it for scrap, but drove it to the junkyard. I just figured for what I would spend fixing it I could buy another used car (so I did) but in hindsight I probably would have been better off fixing the Golf because it got 52 MPG in town and the 99 Subaru I replaced it with is costing me a fortune in maintenance.
Subarus are a whole new can of worms. $1000.00 to replace the ******* spark plugs!!! Why? have to remove the engine to get to the back 2 plugs... seriously? what kind of maniac ******* designs an engine for a regular person daily driver kind of car that has to be removed to work on it?

[Noahtuck]

I have often wondered about this for years, but it's hard to say for sure because almost everything i have ever bought lasted ten years + past the warranty.

But then again, i never bought or liked $ONY crap!!
LOL!

Anywho, a friend of mine, she actually lurks around here once in a great while, she has a $ONY bravia LCD and the screen (light) started going out and shutting down last tuesday, wensday it puked, they came and put a new on in on thursday.

The she bought the TV in aug of 2007, so it lasted some time past sony's warranty but she bought the extended warranty from BB and it is up in 2011.

[deadrats]

Subarus are a whole new can of worms. $1000.00 to replace the ******* spark plugs!!! Why? have to remove the engine to get to the back 2 plugs... seriously? what kind of maniac ******* designs an engine for a regular person daily driver kind of car that has to be removed to work on it?

wow, did you bring back memories. i used to own a caddy, and even though i normally work on my cars myself, the front engine/front drive V8 caddys are a bitch to work on, the engine placed transversely in the engine compartment on top of the transaxle with all the hoses and wires running all over the place make it impossible to work on it in your home's garage with a set of tools from sears. anyway, the car needed a tuneup, so after shopping around a local mechanic was recommended to me by a couple of friends, saying he did good work at reasonable prices.

i take my car to him and ask him how much for a complete tune up, he quotes me a price of $350, for plugs, wires, the whole shebang, a complete tuneup. if you know anything about prices you know that's an almost unheard of price. i ask him if he's sure he knows how to work on caddys and this is what he says to me:

"i've been an ASE certified mechanic for 20 years, my dad's been a mechanic for 30+ years, the other guy in the shop has been a mechanic for 40+ years AND he also worked as a machinist, trust me we can tuneup a caddy".

i figure that's pretty impressive, ok, i give him the keys to the car, ask him how long it will take for them to finish. now mind you this is about 9am, he tells me by 12 in the afternoon it will be done, he'll call me when i can pick it up.

12 o'clock comes, no call. i wait until 1pm and call him. he tells me that they ran into a small problem, no big deal, they decided to grab a bite and finish up as soon as they're done eating, it will be done by 2:30pm. at 3 o'clock, not having heard from them, i decide to take a walk and see how it's coming along. i walk into the shop and almost shit. the manifold covers, intake, wiring, hoses and heads are laying on the floor, i can actually see the pistons in the block!!! i freak out and ask what the hell happened. the three of them are standing around the engine compartment and tell me they couldn't figure out how to get to the rear spark plug and so they decided to disassemble the entire top end of the engine!!!

i'm just speechless, i ask him sarcastically "i thought you were an ASE certified mechanic for 20 years, your dad a mechanic for 30 years and the other guy a mechanic/machinists for 40 years, you can't figure out how to change a spark plug without taking the engine apart?!?"

i walk out and around 7pm i get a call that i can pick up the car and the guy starts giving me this bull story about how he seriously underestimated the price, how his dad is really pissed that he only charged me $350, how they spent their whole day working on the car.

i told him it's not my problem, i ask him if he knew how to work on caddys, and he swore up and down they did, so here's the $350 clams and he'll never see me again.

i took my car and told everyone i knew not to take their car to that clown.

as for subarus, many of them use horizontally opposed 6 cylinder engines (H-6), the same style as porsche 911's, they're hard to work on but they have a lower center of gravity and add stability, which is why porsche and subaru use them, the down side is that working on them is a bitch.

btw, am i the only one that hates the way the new forum looks?