Aspect ratio confusion with .avi on standalone.

[Nocontact]

Or you can cut the center 16:9 picture (~704x396) out of the letterbox and resize it to 704x480 and flag it wide. It will then display full 16:9 on the TV.

Is this a very complicated process and will it deteriorate the resolution?

If something is captured in HD, isn't that by default 16:9 and therefore wouldn't that be the resolution that would show up when played once burned to a DVD?

[jagabo]

Or you can cut the center 16:9 picture (~704x396) out of the letterbox and resize it to 704x480 and flag it wide. It will then display full 16:9 on the TV.

Is this a very complicated process and will it deteriorate the resolution?

It's not that complicated but it's time consuming and will results in some quality loss. Simply using the zoom feature on your HDTV should give approximately the same result:

If something is captured in HD, isn't that by default 16:9 and therefore wouldn't that be the resolution that would show up when played once burned to a DVD?

You don't have an HD source. You have a 16:9 source captured from a standard definition 4:3 broadcast (or downscale by a cable or satellite box). It has black letterbox bars as part of the picture.

[Nocontact]

Using the zoom was the closest result I could get. There's minor cropping on the top and sides but nothing too serious. It does seem to enhance the flaws in the picture but otherwise it's not too bad. At least the aspect ratio is correct.

[edDV]

Or you can cut the center 16:9 picture (~704x396) out of the letterbox and resize it to 704x480 and flag it wide. It will then display full 16:9 on the TV.

Is this a very complicated process and will it deteriorate the resolution?

Yes it would deteriorate the vertical resolution two ways, first deinterlace then rescale.

If something is captured in HD, isn't that by default 16:9 and therefore wouldn't that be the resolution that would show up when played once burned to a DVD?

It wasn't captured as HD. It was captured as letterbox 480i off the HD cable box analog S-Video port.

You would know if your file is HD. If it was captured HD, you couldn't play it on a DVD player. DVD players limit horizontal resolution to 720. Vertical can be 240, 480 or 576 (PAL mode only).

If you got a true HD capture of SNL, it would be 1920x1080i. You can get that off the IEEE-1394 port on a Motorola HD cable box.

[Nocontact]

If you got a true HD capture of SNL, it would be 1920x1080i. You can get that off the IEEE-1394 port on a Motorola HD cable box.

Couldn't an upscaling DVD player play that then if it's capable of 1080i output?

[jagabo]

If you got a true HD capture of SNL, it would be 1920x1080i. You can get that off the IEEE-1394 port on a Motorola HD cable box.

Couldn't an upscaling DVD player play that then if it's capable of 1080i output?

No. They only decompress standard definition video then an upscaling chip takes that uncompressed SD picture and enlarges it for output to the TV.

[guns1inger]

If you have this as a DVD, you could use DVD Rebuilder's advanced settings to do a 4:3 letterbox to 16:9 conversion. It will re-encode, but you will get a proper 16:9 DVD from the exercise.

[Nocontact]

Ok, this is all starting to make sense to me now.
I appreciate all the help people have given me here.

Now I'm beginning to wonder about the value of a divx capable dvd player if there are going to be so many issues with aspect ratios when playing material.

[edDV]

Ok, this is all starting to make sense to me now.
I appreciate all the help people have given me here.

Now I'm beginning to wonder about the value of a divx capable dvd player if there are going to be so many issues with aspect ratios when playing material.

It all depends on how you capture and format that divx (or MPeg2) file. If you do it right, you have an SD file that will display 16:9. It won't be HD even if upscaled.

The SNL pictures I showed above were captured as 1080i, then downscaled to 720x480.

[Nocontact]

If you downscale to 720x240 does that solve the issue of the letterboxing? Will that fit on a 16:9 screen with no AR issues?

[edDV]

If you downscale to 720x240 does that solve the issue of the letterboxing? Will that fit on a 16:9 screen with no AR issues?

No. Optimal size will be revealed for your player if you test with jagabo's test files. There is no vertical standard for DVD player dixx/xvid. Max horizontal is usually 720. Players will vary for edge crops or black edges.

720x400 (needs to be multiple of 16) usually works for 16:9 divx/xvid but often shows side cropped. Other aspect ratios require different vertical size.

DVD MPeg2 is standardized and needs to be 704x480 or 720x480 with wide flag for 16:9.

[Nocontact]

I tried the 640x480 one. It was the same issue with the picture in the center and letterboxing all around.
You're saying I also need to try the 16x9in4x3.avi file?

What am I looking to see?

[edDV]

I tried the 640x480 one. It was the same issue with the picture in the center and letterboxing all around.
You're saying I also need to try the 16x9in4x3.avi file?

What am I looking to see?

640x480 should show this way.

[jagabo]

If the 640x480.avi video isn't displaying like edDV's sample (except the picture is different, of course) your system is set up incorrectly.

[Nocontact]

The 640x480 filled the screen but the square was a stretched to a rectangle. The only way I could make it a square was to set the DVD player 4:3 output to 'Normal' in which the case the image appeared correctly but it was letterboxed on the sides and on the top and bottom as if it was in a frame. The picture edVD is showing only has the letterboxing on the sides.
I'm connected through HDMI so I'm wondering where I'm going wrong with the setup.

[guns1inger]

I have two dvd players connected via component that are both Divx/Xvid capable, and a PS3 connected via HDMI. The PS3 displays with the correct aspect ratio every time. The two DVD players (different brands) both play 16:9 material without any problems, but always stretch 4:3 material to fill the screen. The flagging signal just isn't being recognised by the TV. So I just use the TV picture adjust to tell it the signal is 4:3, and I get the correct AR. When I'm done, I just set it back to normal. Not the end of the world.

[jagabo]

My Philips DVP-5990 displays all the files I posted correctly. So do my WDTV Live and several older Divx/DVD players. The 5990 and WDTV Live both respond to Xvid PAR/DAR flags so any frame size can be displayed with any aspect ratio.

Both the HDTV and the DVD player have to be set correctly to get the correct picture. I would start with the 640x480.avi file and get the system set up so that the picture fills the screen from top to bottom and has pillarboxes on the sides.

[Nocontact]

Good idea, maybe if I work backwards I can see what the issue is.
I'm just wondering what else I could try adjusting to make this work because I feel as though I've tried almost all the permutations of settings between the two.

[jagabo]

Set your DVD player to upscale to the highest resolution your HDTV supports (720p, 1080i, or 1080p). Set the player to "normal", then set the TV to display 16:9. That will probably get you the right AR.

[Nocontact]

I'll try it with those settings and let you know what happens. Thanks.

[edDV]

For what its worth, for Jagabo's test files, a Phillips 5992 to Vizio VX200E TV

640x480 fits perfect vertically, horizontal is a bit h squished (square is a bit tall).
640x360 shows a bit of sidebar left and right. Vertical is perfect.

Probably the TV.

I have to move equipment to test other combinations.

[jagabo]

When I display them on my HTPC running at 1920x1080p60 via DVI/HDMI: 640x360.avi fills the HDTV's screen completely. 640x480.avi fills from top to bottom with pillarbox bars left and right. The white squares are very close to square.

When played from a Philips DVP-5990 running at 1920x1080p60 via HDMI: 640x360.avi doesn't quite fill the width of the screen and the square is slightly tall -- about a one percent AR error. Since the HDTV is showing every pixel of the 1920x1080 input signal the player's resizing must be slightly off. 640x480.avi fills the height and is pillarboxed as expected. And again, the square is about 1 percent too tall.

[Nocontact]

Ok, here's what I was able to do.
With this setting:


This was the result:




There's some cropping on the right side only which is strange, and the image is a little stretched. The square is not a square.

With this setting (You can see there is already some pillarboxing due to the 4:3 mode being set to normal:





This was the result:



AR looks right, but there is letterboxing AND pillarboxing.

Here are the same settings, but with the TV set to zoom. It's as close as I'm able to get, but there is a little cropping.







All of these images are with DVD player connected via HDMI set to display 1080i (the tv's highest resolution.)

[jagabo]

Well, it looks like your DVD player first decodes Divx/Xvid files into a 4:3 frame then upscales that to 16:9 1080i -- either by pillarboxing (normal mode) or by stretching horizontally (full mode). So 16:9 Divx/Xvid files get letterboxed before they are upscaled and sent to the HDTV. The only way you'll get 16:9 Divx/Xvid files to display full screen is to set up for "normal" output and zoom on the HDTV. Time for a new DVD player?

[Nocontact]

Time for a new DVD player?

I just bought this one 5 days ago!

[jagabo]

Then take it back and get something else. The Philips 5990 and 5992 are inexpensive and pretty good as Divx/DVD players. They can also convert PAL to NTSC and are easily made region free (just a few button presses on the remote control). Unfortunately, they are hard to find in Canada. A lot of people seem to like the Pioneer DV420 for Divx. It's a little harder to make region free -- you need to find an updated firmware and apply it. Apparently, it's much easier to find in Canada.

[edDV]

Time for a new DVD player?

I just bought this one 5 days ago!

Exchange it for a Phillips 5990/5992

[Nocontact]

Exchange it for a Phillips 5990/5992

You Americans have it good. I can't find it at Futureshop, Best Buy, or Amazon.ca.

The reason I bought this one was a boxing day sale. I didn't realize certain players would process these files in such different ways.

The Pioneer is available but it's a little more than I want to spend for a DVD player.

[Nocontact]

So there's nothing else I can do to improve this, aside from getting a new player altogether?

[edDV]

The player is the source of your troubles.

DVD players are standardized for MPeg2 DVD playback but differ in the way they handle divx/xvid, etc.

Your other option is to stick with MPeg2 and follow DVD authoring rules.